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Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 54
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 3:49 pm: |       |
I wondered if anyone has an opinion on whether there should be a permanent museum of Jack the Ripper history in the East End of London?
I believe that there should be!
After all, Jack the Ripper history covers so many different interests now, and could include a large section on East End history itself. There could be a section on the victims, the police, and known suspects. Waxwork interpretations, or perhaps even staff dressed up in an accurate style of Liz Stride, James Maybrick and Inspector Abberline etc.
I realize the opposers would suggest that it is wrong to have a museum about a serial killer, but I believe it would be the best possible way to teach a wider audience about all aspects of the case.
It's a great shame that the most famous time in criminal history, and a major event in British history, does not have a place in London for tourists to visit. After all, a minority of people were horrified by the bodyworlds exhibition but thousands still flocked to see it. And an exhibition of Titanic history has just opened in London, and over one thousand people died in that disaster. So why not a museum devoted to the history of the Jack the Ripper murders.
Most people in the world would not have heard of Nichols, Chapman, and the rest of the girls, but a museum could bring their stories and East End history alive like never before.
I know that there were demonstrations years ago by feminists that caused the Jack the Ripper pub to change it's name back to The Ten Bells. I am not in favour of having a pub called The Jack the Ripper, but a compromise could have been to call it "The Mary Kelly pub", in order to keep it as a tourist attraction. I see no reason to ruin it's commercial possibilities when it didn't serve the interests of the victims to have it named the Ten Bells again.
It would be interesting to read different opinions on this subject?
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John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 6:48 pm: | |
An interesting concept,Neal.
Doubtless, there will be those who will see the negative side to your proposal, but I see in what you say the germ of a very much needed project.
You see, I have often wondered where old Ripper authors go to die? What happens to all those metres or yards of paper-trail they leave?
I once- in the 'seventies- corresponded with a, now dead, researcher, Eric Hermes, I still have his letters and occasionally draw upon his fine newspaper research to contribute to this wonderful chat line.
What about the gargantuan efforts of Keith Skinner, Donald Rumbelow, to say nothing of Colin Wilson? (Now I know they are not dead.And I may offend those canonical Ripper authors not mentioned, but..)
Even the less popular authors, Farson and McCormick.Where are their papers? Surely not all destroyed?
The point I am making is that if Neal's suggestion were to get up, it would be more palatable to detractors if it were not only a magnet for ghouls and wheirdos, but also a repository for manuscript collections germane to
the extraordinary subject of Jack The Ripper.
There seems to be no longer, a geographical focal point for Ripper students.Admittedly this site is.
All the murder sites have been gentrified or transformed.The Jack The Ripper pub shouted down.
I understand the Crime Club meet somewhere in the East End, what do they think?
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Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 253
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 7:13 pm: | |
Neil,
I like the idea.
And to preempt the negatives - no, this wouldn't be a "glorification" of the Ripper or a means to create thousands of little Rippers out there. It would be a way to memorialize what happened, and remind the public of the women who died.
"The Museum's primary mission is to advance and disseminate knowledge about this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered; and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own responsibilities as citizens of a democracy." - Holocaust Museum Mission Statement
I think this is a great idea.
B
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Christopher T George
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 139
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 10:29 pm: | |
Hi, Neal:
I think what you have proposed is a good idea. There will be those who say such a museum could constitute glorification of a serial killer, and from what I can gather the East End community appears to dislike its association with the killer, e.g., the Jack the Ripper walking tours are only tolerated, and the community opposed the brief renaming of "The Ten Bells" as the "Jack the Ripper." Significantly, I understand that similar community opposition led to the closing of a "Jack the Ripper" restaurant in Greenwich Village, New York (the "Jekyll and Hyde" restaurant nearby flourishes--go figure).
On the other hand, few outside of Ripperology I think understand that there is actually serious study of the crimes or how rich and far-ranging the field is, or how many lives the crimes touched in society, high and low. In this sense, I would urge that, yes, there should be a museum to the murders but that it be a museum not just to Jack but to London of 1888, something along the lines of "Jack's London" -- I know there's a map of that name, but I am talking about a museum that would recreate the London of 1888 and deal with all aspects of the murders. In this way, the social conditions in the East End, the philanthropists, Toynbee Hall, the Metropolitan Police and the police officials could all get full treatment, along with displays on the various suspects. I would recommend that perhaps a period building be selected for the museum if possible.
I have also thought that Frogg Moody musical, "Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper" gives a fine documentary style presentation of the murders, and that show, or something like it could be presented on a regular permanent basis in the auditorium of such a museum. And if the idea of a museum may be some time off, perhaps a move should be made to at least present Frogg's musical publicly in the East End in a community hall on a regular basis.
All the best
Chris George
North American Editor
Ripperologist |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:17 am: | |
Hi guys,
Yes it would be good if it became a central repository for Jack the Ripper research and collections. Of course, it would also attract some ghouls and weirdos to a museum, but on balance I think that most people nowadays would find it fascinating and educational. Musicals and re-enactments could also bring in the crowds.
A location somewhere close to where the crimes were committed would be ideal, possibly Spitalfields area, within a short distance of Liverpool Street station? Most times that I take a walk up Commercial Street lately, I can't help thinking to myself that something is lacking in the area. My answer is a Jack the Ripper Museum.
All the best.
Neal. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 175
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 4:37 pm: | |
Hi,
I agree that it would be a tremendous asset, especially tourism, When one thinks of Whitechapel, Jack The Ripper' springs to mind , and this is universal.
These crimes are part of our folk law, and I garrantee that if such a museum was formed, it would amass great intrest throughout the world, and if one was lucky enough to gain permission to set the wheels in motion, I would say a very lucrative investment.
Richard. |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 5:48 pm: | |
Neal
An interesting idea. It would be the first place I would visit in London-much to my wife's chagrin!
Gary |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 60
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 6:06 pm: | |
Whatho Neal,
I don't know about a souly Jack the Ripper Museum, it sould rather goulish to me. I do worry about my own interest in the whole subject, especially when asked by others why I follow the crimes of a very nasty killer.
The Ripper as part of a Victorian London museum has more of legitimacy about it. The crimes are very important in the history of London. However it should be controlled by a body beyond reproach such as the Musuem of London; then the finger cannot be pointed at blood-thirsty woman hatters.
As to the renaming of any pubs, I am against it. I research and lecture on the history and derivasion of pub names and therefore realise of important and historical some of the names are. The Ten Bells may have its name for a particular reason; a reason which would be lost if the name was changed and, perhaps, a piece of London's history would disappear. I do not actually why the Ten Bells is so named but the close vicinity of the Christ Church may well have something to do with it. How many bells has it got in its belfry?
Cheers, Mark
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Marie Finlay
Inspector
Username: Marie
Post Number: 231
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 7:02 am: | |
Aren't there a lot of museums that deal with Victorian London, as a whole?
I think that a 'Jack The Ripper' Museum is a marvellous idea. I don't see how it's any more 'ghoulish' than the 'London Dungeon'? Seems like that would be a double standard.
Museums serve to commemorate events, not glorify them. The Whitechapel murders actually happened, and we shouldn't sweep ANY aspect of London's history under the carpet.
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Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 7:17 am: | |
Hi guys,
I would just have to disagree with a Ripper display being part of a Victorian London museum as Mark suggests, because I feel that it would be no different to what's already on display in the Chamber of Horrors. And no one can surely say that they have learnt anything about the crimes, the victims etc, in places like that?
I would bet that an exhibition in London even running just for a few months would be very successful, despite feminist complaints and demonstrations. In fact, the publicity about the demonstrations would probably help sell the tickets! I have no doubt that the general public would come round on the matter of a JTR museum if it concentrated on the historical side of the crimes. So no I wouldn't want to see a set JTR knives being sold in the museum shop, but I would see nothing wrong if Andy Parlour's game were sold there.
I personally don't feel anymore guilt for studying JTR history than anyone else should feel for going to see a factual crime film at the movies. I feel that the woman hater label is well in the past now, and many modern women would be equally interested in such a museum as men.
As I've said many times before, none of us can prevent what happened to the victims, but we can tell their story, and a museum would be the best way to do that.
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Christopher T George
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 142
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | |
Hi, Mark:
I am glad you have brought up the blood-thirsty woman hatters. The mad woman hatters of Bethnal Green were certainly behind the murders and should be the focus of intense enquiry! 
All the best
Chris |
Dan L. Hollifield
Sergeant
Username: Vila
Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 6:24 pm: | |
Murderous haberdashers? Oh my!
I do like the idea of a place where Ripper writers can leave their research materials when the shuffle off this mortal coil, though.
Vila
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Mark Andrew Pardoe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 61
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 6:40 pm: | |
Oh dear!
This comes of living too near Luton. A town famous for its hat manufacturers and its football club, Luton Town, are nicknamed The Hatters
Cheers, Mark  |
Caroline Anne Morris
Detective Sergeant
Username: Caz
Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 4:14 am: | |
Hi All,
Great idea! If I win the lottery tomorrow...
Jack and his crimes are as much a part of our history as other terrible events and no information is bad, if it is given out straight.
In recent weeks I've been to the V&A for its special Art Deco Exhibition, spent horrified hours at the Holocaust Exhibition in The Imperial War Museum (the huge collection of shoes belonging to Auschwitz victims of all ages was heart-rending), and on Sunday was at the Science Museum for the new Titanic Artefacts Exhibition. We were each given boarding passes and assumed the name and details of an actual passenger who sailed on the doomed ship. At the end, we were able to discover if we had survived or perished on that freezing cold night. It was a family affair, with youngsters who excitedly felt the killer 'iceberg' made of real ice, shivering to be told that the Atlantic waters would have been even colder that night because salt water freezes at a lower temperature, some then finding their assumed names on the list of those who weren't rescued. Hubby and I both survived - I was a newly-wed returning to America 1st class, hubby was an Irishman travelling in steerage (tee hee) who was said to have had a premonition about Titanic's fate.
Visitors to a JtR museum could similarly adopt the name of someone involved in the case.
Is there an entrepreneur in the house?
Love,
Caz |
Christopher T George
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 143
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 8:38 am: | |
Hi, Caz et al.:
That passport idea that you experienced at the Titanic exhibition seems to be a new thing in museums to engage the interest of the public. They do a similar thing at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., which helps to personally involve visitors in the drama of the Holocaust story.
Dan, I like your idea that the museum be a repository for manuscripts as well as a museum visitable by the public. It would be nice to have researchers' notes deposited in one place instead of spread between institutions. In addition, if the institution were not able to have in its collection the actual Jack the Ripper letters, which I would suspect would remain at the Public Record Office and the City of London Record Office, I would advise that copies of the whole series be available for study by researchers. Possibly Messrs. Skinner and Evans could facilitate that. There would also be microfilm of period newspapers for persons to do research in the papers of the day.
Mark, glad to amuse everyone with your typo of "hatters" instead of "haters"! With typos such as these our theories on the case could be reduced to "tatters"! 
Best regards
Chris |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 12:52 pm: | |
Folks,
The holocaust exhibition at the Imperial war Museum is harrowing and disturbing.
Its quite an intense experience...but it educated. It stated the obvious in that such things must never happen again.
Done correctly, which I think is what Neal is heading for, then I think it would work....but without the costumes...sorry Neal but Mr Rumbelow dressed as Pearly Poll would upset me !
Monty
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 32
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 2:09 pm: | |
the museum would have to be done tastefully - not sensationlist! |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 57
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 4:14 pm: | |
I popped along to the Titanic exhibition today and found it fascinating. On the boarding pass that Caz mentions, I was a first class passenger who didn't survive and his daughter was the only child in first class not to survive. It was a very sad story, but it's got me interested in this man and his family. Much in the same way that it would be good for vistors to a JTR museum to be given one of the names from the case.
I'm not backing off from the idea of a museum, but visiting the Titanic exhibition made me think that there should at least be a major exhibtion in London on JTR. It told the story in detail of many of the heroic people on the ship regardless of their class background.
I also thought that the shop for the exhibition sold nothing that could be remotely considered to be in bad taste. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone who can get there, and you even get to touch a piece of the Titanic at the end of the exhibtion. This is surely the best way to bring history alive and to reach a wider audience.
Monty,
No Mr Rumbelow dressed as Pearly Poll?
Does that mean that you and me as Liz Stride and Kate Eddowes singing "I've got a luvly bunch of coconuts" is a no-go then?  |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 7:15 pm: | |
Oh no Chris!  |
Caroline Anne Morris
Detective Sergeant
Username: Caz
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 7:08 am: | |
Hi All,
I think all the authors who have written favouring a particular suspect should be made to impersonate him and line up so visitors to the exhibition can throw rotten tomatoes at the best and worst rippers.
The picture I am conjuring up in my mind right now is a gem and is giving me real fits. 
Love,
Caz |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 12:14 pm: | |
Neal,
Bags Stride.....I can do a superb Swedish accent,
Hurly blurly leettle chicky licky...put du leetle chicky licky in da pot......
See....see !!
Monty
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Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 5:42 am: | |
Mamma Mia Monty, that's exactly how Liz would've spoken!
I'll be Kate then. I'm now off to buy an auburn wig, do a bit of hopping in Kent, and practice my fire engine impersonation.
Neal
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Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 67
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 12:14 pm: | |
Neal,
oooh, ooooh, dont forget the tatoos...get 'em done...get 'em done !
T C Monty
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Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 68
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 12:14 pm: | |
Neal,
oooh, ooooh, dont forget the tatoos...get 'em done...get 'em done !
T C Monty
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Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 5:26 pm: | |
Ok Monty, I'll get 'em done twice! TC for Thomas Conway or Top Cat?  |
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