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John Malcolm
Police Constable
Username: Johnm
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 1:32 am: | 
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The Ten Bells, which has become quite a trendy spot indeed, has unfortunately removed all traces of JTR...when I win the lottery, though, my spiritual compatriot, Dave Lee (former guv'nor of the place) and I will do it right; That's a promise. It would be the perfect place for such a memorial. |
Lisa Jane
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 7:35 am: |
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Hi John
I quite agree the Ten Bells is so central and makes the perfect contender. I haven't been there for about 4 years and it was always very austere with bare floorboards, dim light and candles in bottles - which made it great! I do hope they haven't interferred with the mural??? I would gaze at that in the knowledge that Mary Kelly would have been so familiar with it. Did it remind her of Wales or Ireland? I had heard that they had such a collection of artifacts there - I never saw anything more than a small board of 20th century newspaper clippings and book covers. There were of course some souvenirs you could buy, I lost my keyring but still have the bookmark! |
Saddam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:40 pm: |
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Humor: It sure seems to me like Jack was having fun. If he found his actions humorous, then if we exclude humor from our museum we would be excluding a part of the case solution. We'd be performing a kind of epistemological lobotomy on ouselves. Why do that?
Patricia Cornwell is a great one for "not allowing the deaths of these women to be trivialized." Attend one of her lectures and you'll be treated to one of the most concretely solemn faces you've seen this side of the funeral home, while she tells you about how it could happen to any woman anywhere. Never mind that reason has crashed and burned.
Saddam |
Christian Jaud
Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 31
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 6:30 am: |
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Hi all,
this is how the inside of the Ten Bells looks like these days. Picture taken in July 2003. The reason why it's so empty is because I took it early one morning through the window when it was still closed. But I saw it open later that day.
As mentioned in posts before, all Ripper related things seem to have gone.
Regards
Christian
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Christian Jaud
Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 32
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 6:37 am: |
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sorry that it appeared so big.
Don't know how to reduce the size, although I reduced the resolution.
Christian
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John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 10:06 am: |
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Hi, Chris,
Many thanks for the above photo. I can't believe all the Rippery decor is gone! The Ten Bells used to have a huge mural across all the walls, depicting the Whitechapel murders, along with a board showing all the victims' names. What a shame the (new?) owners have tossed all that history down the memory hole.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 119
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 8:21 pm: |
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Hi all,
It is very instructive to surf through the internet, because occasionally one finds a wider set of interests than sticking to one board. I will (occasionally) go onto "Find-a-grave", leaving comments on it regarding famous or infamous people (while looking up their burial sites). This includes, of course, the five usual
Ripper victims. But I have also left messages at
the sites of non-Whitechapel victims, including those who were secondary victims in crimes - like
the relatives of the victims in homicides. An
example might be Horace Sebastiani, the Napoleonic
general and diplomat, who became a major figure in the regime of King Louis Phillippe of France, and whose daughter Fanny was murdered in 1847 by
her husband, the Duc de Praslin. As a result of
such a comment as I left, I recently got a large
correspondence by e-mail with a member of the
Sebastiani family regarding the Marshal, Fanny, and the Duc.
This is illustrative of what we all are aware of
(and which Saddam reminds us of)- that there is
a wider world outside besides Whitechapel. And so,
Saddam is somewhat correct in postulating that the need of a Holacaust museum is to remind us all
of barbarity and evil on a worldwide level that must never be allowed to go unchecked. But there
is another side to it. Right now, many universities around the world offer courses in the
law, or in criminology, or in sociological fields that crisscross criminology. But there are (as
far as I know anyway) no organizations set up
internationally to study the history of crime, its causes, and possible solutions of curbing or ending it.
The internet may help (if wisely used) to set up
a means of bringing such organizations into
fruition. People from widely seperate areas of life and areas of the earth, with access to the internet, can communicate ideas or knowledge to each other to get clearer pictures going regarding historical mysteries. I don't say they can solve everything, but they might enlighten everything for the common good.
A Ripper Museum could be part of this - a type of
information clearing house regarding 19th Century
Whitechapel, its crimes, the unremembered history
of the lower classes of late Victorian England. It would have to be part of a wider grid - similar museums dealing with similar problems in other parts of the world, collecting and colating and organizing whatever information exists. I can
only add that the sad thing is that the whole two or three generations that were immediately affected by Whitechapel and its tragedies of 1888 are now almost extinct. Much eyewitness testimony
is gone. That probably means that much will never be known. But we owe it to those people of
1888, in particular the five or more ladies of
the East End, to get some record down to restore
their lives and give them a permenant meaning beyond being names on a particular creep's list of victims.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 120
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 8:25 pm: |
|
Hi all,
It is very instructive to surf through the internet, because occasionally one finds a wider set of interests than sticking to one board. I will (occasionally) go onto "Find-a-grave", leaving comments on it regarding famous or infamous people (while looking up their burial sites). This includes, of course, the five usual
Ripper victims. But I have also left messages at
the sites of non-Whitechapel victims, including those who were secondary victims in crimes - like
the relatives of the victims in homicides. An
example might be Horace Sebastiani, the Napoleonic
general and diplomat, who became a major figure in the regime of King Louis Phillippe of France, and whose daughter Fanny was murdered in 1847 by
her husband, the Duc de Praslin. As a result of
such a comment as I left, I recently got a large
correspondence by e-mail with a member of the
Sebastiani family regarding the Marshal, Fanny, and the Duc.
This is illustrative of what we all are aware of
(and which Saddam reminds us of)- that there is
a wider world outside besides Whitechapel. And so,
Saddam is somewhat correct in postulating that the need of a Holacaust museum is to remind us all
of barbarity and evil on a worldwide level that must never be allowed to go unchecked. But there
is another side to it. Right now, many universities around the world offer courses in the
law, or in criminology, or in sociological fields that crisscross criminology. But there are (as
far as I know anyway) no organizations set up
internationally to study the history of crime, its causes, and possible solutions of curbing or ending it.
The internet may help (if wisely used) to set up
a means of bringing such organizations into
fruition. People from widely seperate areas of life and areas of the earth, with access to the internet, can communicate ideas or knowledge to each other to get clearer pictures going regarding historical mysteries. I don't say they can solve everything, but they might enlighten everything for the common good.
A Ripper Museum could be part of this - a type of
information clearing house regarding 19th Century
Whitechapel, its crimes, the unremembered history
of the lower classes of late Victorian England. It would have to be part of a wider grid - similar museums dealing with similar problems in other parts of the world, collecting and colating and organizing whatever information exists. I can
only add that the sad thing is that the whole two or three generations that were immediately affected by Whitechapel and its tragedies of 1888 are now almost extinct. Much eyewitness testimony
is gone. That probably means that much will never be known. But we owe it to those people of
1888, in particular the five or more ladies of
the East End, to get some record down to restore
their lives and give them a permenant meaning beyond being names on a particular creep's list of victims.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 548
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 1:24 pm: |
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Hi all
Interesting thread about the Jack the Ripper museum but according to one site I visited today one already exists!
The pic above is captioned as "Jack the Ripper's Museum, Folgate St., London EC1"
The site where is found this is at
http://www.electrolyte.co.uk/richard/gallerytwo/index.html
Does anyone have info on this museum and what it contains?
Chris |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 332
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 5:23 pm: |
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Hi, Chris:
The illustration that you have found appears to refer to the Dennis Severs Museum (or House) at 18 Folgate St. which is referred to as having a "flickering gas lamp" which would correspond to the lamp above the door in the picture. The telephone number is 0171-247-4013 and the postal address Dennis Severs House, 18 Folgate St., Spitalfields London E1 6BX. For more information on this eccentric museum see
See ARTFUL LODGER by Arnold Wengrow
Vermontian Carole Melis who attended the Liverpool convention I believe was going to visit the museum while she was in England and maybe she can give us a report about it.
All the best
Chris |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 813
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 6:01 pm: |
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Two Chrises, I believe there is a book about this house. I think it's called simply "18 Folgate Street". I saw it in Waterstone's, and I'll check the next time I go in there.
Robert |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 333
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 3:41 pm: |
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Hi, Robert:
Thanks for that information on the book on 18 Folgate Street. We await more details. Meanwhile I received the following information from Carole Melis who visited the Dennis Severs museum during her recent trip to the UK. It gives a little taste of what the museum is like:
"I did make it to the Dennis Severs house, and it was a splendid experience. It's not at all a museum though loaded with 18th C. materials. Instead, they strove for the feeling of a lived in home where the occupants have momentarily left the room, and the atmosphere made up of the scents and candlelight and the scenes, as well as the sounds, was wonderful. A black cat made friends with me in the kitchen and accompanied me through three rooms, darting ahead of me into the master bedroom. I heard a china cup break, but feel quite certain the cat didn't do it, though I found the pieces on the floor next to the tea table. I'm quite certain the sound was part of the scene-setting. :-) The place is really hard to describe, somehow, but I would strongly recommend it. The cost is 12 pounds, and they're only open for candlelight tours on Monday nights, and I think it said they have one Sunday a month when it's open during the day. You do need reservations, evidently - unlike most places, I suspect it's because they DON'T want too many people in there at once since the crowding would defeat the atmosphere."
There is a website for the Dennis Severs house at
http://www.dennissevershouse.co.uk/
All the best
Chris |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 870
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 6:51 pm: |
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Hi
Just to say that the book mentioned on the website above is the book I saw, and it's now available in paperback, price 10 pounds 99p.
Robert |
Renea
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 7:53 pm: |
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Hi. My name is Heather and I live in Mississippi. In June of 2005 I will be traveling to London on a school trip and my teacher mentioned a Jack the Ripper museum. I am very interested in these unsolved murders and I would like to learn more about the museum because I plan on visiting it. If you have any information on this museum, please email me at krazychic14_03@yahoo.com Thanx!!!
-Heather |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 203
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:27 am: |
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Olympic Games new museum idea.
Hi all
As some of you know I'm often out and about trying to find work for me camera. I got into a conversation the other day about producing a DVD for Eastend Culture to back the Olympic Bid.
The chap I spoke to is currently expanding the Lee Valley museum and is hoping to get further backing if the bid goes ahead.
He is very interested in East end crime, in particular Jack the Ripper.
The museum is in Walthamstow. He is interested in talking to anybody with a serious proposal for a Jack the Ripper Museum. Its not my particular area but if someone is interested in talking further about the project for a Jack the Ripper museum, the Olympic bid might be the perfect opertunity and I'm happy to put people in touch with each other.
Dont know what current thinking on this, but a decent archive wouldn't go a miss. He also mentioned a bar.
Let me know if anyones interested, I beleive his proposal was quite serious.
Jeff
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Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 684
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:39 am: |
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Renea - I think the exhibit that might be best placed for a visit, and which includes a JtR section, is The London Dungeon, on the south bank of the Thames adjacent to London Bridge Station. I hope you are not sqeamish - it's more a horror show than a museum.
Madam Tusauds waxworks also used to have a JtR section in the Chamber of Horrors.
Enjoy your visit.
On the wider subject of a JtR Museum, I don't believe that there are enough exhibits to display - even if Don Rumbelow leant his knife, the national Archives hold the documents and there is not much else.
But I do think a JtR experience would be possible and practical. It would have to be based on recreation of the times and the events, but if someone like Madam Tussauds were to be involved - has anyone seen their displays "A Royal House Party" and "Kingmaker" at Warwick Castle? - then one might have evocative waxworks of personalities, life size reconstructions of key events (finding Eddowes body maybe) and models of the major suspects.
There could be reconstructions of the east End, copies of documents, displays on the press and their role, SY and the HO, the women of the streets etc etc. Done well, and focusing on fact rather than horror, it might have real impact. But I guess the money-men would prefer to focus on the blood and gore like the London Dungeon.
It might be an interesting discussion to find out what others of you would include in a relatively serious JtR exhibition and why.
Phil |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 204
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 11:27 am: |
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I'm a firm beleiver that museums need to be a mix. It also gives a place for families to leave research, photos etc when people pass.
But my main veiw is these things caost money and this could be a good oppertunity if someone was interested. Thats all really.
Busy with Guy fawkes must dash.
Jeff |
Tee@jtrforums
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 1:16 pm: |
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Well as I come from E17 not sure If i`m aware of this Museum though. Unless it`s the one inside Lloyds Park?
Tee. |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 206
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 8:03 am: |
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Hi Tee
A fellow 'Rippo' living in Walthamstow, yo.
The Museum your thinking of is the William Morris Museum (which is also worth a nose, check the story of Madeleine Smith who married Morris)
The Lee Valley Museum is off Mark House Road. Basically take the turning towards the Tip and its on the left as you travel down. Its open most weekends and is Currently full of old trains and Buses.
They are currently talking of expanding by building period Street scenes, and there after backing for a number of projects to do with Lee Valley heritage and first flight at the Marshes.
Check it out next time you go to damp your rubbish, may be catch you in the Village.
Jeff |
Tee@jtrforums
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 9:26 pm: |
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You from there to Jeff ? Hook up at the Bell for a drink sometime.
You know where I can be found. Or just email me.
Probably seen you around nuff times.
All the very best.
Tee. |
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