| Author |
Message |
    
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 11:36 pm: |       |
I wonder if anyone has info about the
evidence for and or against John Merrick (Elephant Man) being the Ripper. Is there a theory/book on this subject. Any info that either
entains the theory or entirely elimnates Merrick as a suspect would be greatly appreciated |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 881
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 7:12 am: | |
I don't know too much about this suspect but one thing I am sure of. I'm sure that people would have mentioned if they had seen someone looking like the Elephant Man.
I doubt he could have walked around Whitechapel unnoticed.
Sarah
P.S Are you sure it's John Merrick? I've heard him being referred to as Josepgh Merrick too but keep getting confused as to which one it is. In the film "From Hell" someone calls him Joseph Merrick but he gets corrected by another man who tells him it is John Merrick.
(Message edited by sarah on March 15, 2004) |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 869
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 7:29 am: | |
Sarah,
His name was Joseph Carey Merrick.
I believe 'John' came about because when asked his name, due to Joesphs deformed mouth, his reply was confusing. So people just took it as John.
Jerry,
Please, I mean no disrespect, but the idea that Merrick was JtR is a) ludicrous, b) slanderous and c) more importantly physically impossible.
Regards,
Monty
 |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 883
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 9:41 am: | |
Thank you Monty.
I thought so as that's the name I've heard more often but I was curious as to where the John came from.
I can't really take what they said in "From Hell" that seriously I suppose, I mean they had the place that Annie Chapman was killed as "Hanover Street", honestly, I know it was a fictional story but you'd think they'd have done the basic research right.
Sarah |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1283
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 9:42 am: | |
I agree, Monty, my man.
The poor man lead an enough troublesome existence without being suspected of being the Ripper as well.
With his apparence, it wold be impossible for any witness not to notice him and describe him. Furthermore, the poor guy could hardly move properly; the police would have captured him quite rapidly.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 54
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 9:56 pm: | |
The Elephant man as the ripper is as ridiculous a theory as my Grandmother being the ripper.
Actually, she would have had a better chance at being the ripper, even though shes 80. I mean no disrespect, but, come on. The Elephant man was actually a kind, gentle person that had the worst curse one could have. Sometimes God works in strange ways. Best regards.
Paul |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
I just heard of an online book out there about Merrick being JTR and suppose to make a good case. My reasons for thinking it might be possible are
1. He did wear a hood covering his face. That along with the murders happening in the middle of the night would not make it too hard for Merrick getting around undetected
2. His hospital I belive is in walking distance from the murder sites
3. He did have motive: Never able to have any romantic or sexual relationships with women.
4. Had access to the surical equipment at the hospital.
Sarah my idea that Merrick could just be possibly
the Ripper (no way in saying 100% case closed just
being a little open minded) is no more ludicrous or slanderous than the idea that Lewis Carroll is
JTR |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2228
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 6:11 pm: | |
Hi Jerry
I think anyone walking around Whitechapel in a hood would have been detected!
Robert |
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
This is a joke, right? "The Elephant Man" as the Ripper? |
Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 5:44 pm: | |
The confusion over Merrick's first name arises from Frederick Treves' memoirs, 'The Elephant Man and Other Reminiscences.' In the hand written manuscript he initially writes Merrick's name correctly as 'Joseph Carey Merrick' but at some point has crossed out Joseph and replaced it with 'John.'
Incidentally Merrick shared the London Hospital with Roslyn D'Onston. I'm not aware of Merrick being linked with the case before but no doubt as a result of that silly film 'From Hell' ludicrous and medically impossible theories will be formulated before long. |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
I wonder if Merrick and D'Onston ever communicated with each other at the London Hospital. Wonder if he told him his story of who Jack The Ripper was. |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
I wonder if Merrick and D'Onston ever communicated with each other at the London Hospital. Wonder if he told him his story of who Jack The Ripper was. |
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 640
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 9:49 am: | |
Hi all
Just felt I had to have my say here (no change there then!)
John/Joseph Merrick as JtR...Come on.........!! shurely not....if so we should be told! Ok There was probably more than your fair share of 'unfortunates' shambling around Whitechapel at the time.but Mr Merrick was more than a small attraction at the time tho I belive and so would likely be recognised by who he was rather than the hood,gait etc!!!Cant dismiss The Artful Dodger out of hand though.....wasn't his Christian name Jack????
Yours ,tongue just a tad in cheek
Suzi
|
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 641
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 10:00 am: | |
HI !!!!
GOT IT... JACK DAWKINS ( a likely story!!!) case closed!!
I REST MY CASE!!!
Cheers Suzi |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 223
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 12:28 pm: | |
Apparently anyone alive at the time of the murders is now a possible suspect... In which case I nominate August Strindberg as the Ripper. He was into the occult, had difficulties with women, and seemed to be insane. That's enough isn't it? I mean so what if he didn't live in London at the time? If Merrick could fit a knife into his grotesquely deformed right hand, which most agree was little more than a meat mitten, than anything is possible.
What's that Helium?
Oh, right.
"Riiiiiiiiiiiippeeeeeeeerrrrrr!"
-K
p.s. - if you don't know who Helium is, check out www.strindbergandhelium.com |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 5:03 pm: | |
Im starting to now think that Merrick may have known who JTR was. I know O Donston was in the Hospital at the same time. I belive Donston is a strong suspect. Has there been any communication between the two? Did he tell Merrick all that stuff about Dr.Davis being JTR? With both having rooms at the London Hospital it would be hard to belive they never crossed paths. Some serial killers have the urge to talk of their crimes. Donston bragged about killing a woman in Africa.
Im thinking he could have seen Merrick as a safe way to confess the Whitechapel murders thinking Merrick wouldnt tell on him. What does everyone think of this? |
Dan Norder
Sergeant
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 38
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
Sounds like an entertaining book. Probably more for the fiction section than nonfiction, though.
Wasn't Merrick usually hidden away from everyone? Or am just misremembering a TV dramatization on that? I just can't see Donston getting one on one time with the Elephant Man to confess crimes, or Merrick not ratting him out for that matter.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 9:43 am: | |
I came up with this idea because of what I have read about Donston. He did booast about killing
a woman in Africa, Claimed he avenged his cousin's
girlfriend's spurned lover and dipper her hankerchief in his blood, and even once hinted about killing his wife. I think its very possible
he boosted his killing spree in Whitechapel to Merrick knowing how shy and sensitive he is would be too scared to tell. Remember Donston has a history of being open about not caring about human life. It wouldnt be impossible at all to think he could have used Merrick as a way of getting the urge to tell. Most serial killers want to brag (ex Zodiac, Charles Manson, ect.) |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 174
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 8:29 pm: | |
Hello Jerry,
I think the theory is a little far fetched. A lot far fetched actually. Why are you so convinced that Merrick has anything to do with Jack the Ripper. My opinion is this: I think the chance that he knew or had any knowledge of who the Ripper was is about .000001.
I have often thought that D'Onston would be a fair suspect though. Best regards
Paul |
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 723
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 3:46 pm: | |
Hi Paul
Guess you're reading the Black Magic book as I am at the moment cos I thought I ought to...! Some good pics but it does not persuade!!!!!
Cheers
Suzi
|
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 209
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 5:46 pm: | |
Hi Suzi,
Im actually not reading the Black Magic book...
I try to steer away from the devil worship stuff. D'onston is interesting...I dont think he was the Ripper, but there are certainly worse suspects out there. Take care.
Paul |
DR KABUTO
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 4:18 pm: | |
Jerry Maynard, You are very cruel and arrogant to even mention John Merrick as being a RTR suspect. Go read about him at: http://www.jsitton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/elephantman/elephant_man.htm#lifestory |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1138
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 3:56 am: | |
Guys,
Here is the latest regarding Joseph Merricks memorial plaque in Leicester.
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132407&command=displayContent&sourceNode=132390&contentPK=10003810
Monty
|
Sarah Long
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 6:57 am: | |
Jerry,
I agree, it is no more ridiculous to suggest Lewis Carroll than Joseph Merrick, but I think Lewis Carroll is a ridiculous suggestion for Jack the Ripper too.
Dr Kabuto,
Not that I expect you're still around these boards but I don't think it's fair to call Jerry arrogant and cruel. Joseph Merrick was suggested as Jack the Ripper before Jerry brought it up. He was merely looking into it.
Sarah
Smile and the world will wonder what you've been up to 
Smile too much and the world will guess  |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 5:22 pm: | |
Dr. Kabuto. I really only asked about a rumor of a book suggesting Merrick as a JTR suspect and I collect JTR theory books. I dont really think he was the Ripper. I think though he might have met him. Heard of O'Donston Stevenson? He stayed at the Hospital at the same time as Merrick. I belive that he was JTR along with one or two of the other suspects. I think he might have confessed his crimes to Merrick and Merrick being
so scared never told. Kabuto you say im cruel? Read about O'Donston. That man was cruel and evil enough to mastermind the whitechapel murders and force Merrick to carry that awful secret. |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 756
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 2:21 pm: | |
Hi, Monty
Thank you for updating us on the plaque for Joseph Carey Merrick, the Elephant Man. Nice to see Leicester remember their native son this way. Incidentally, although it is correct that as they say in the article, Merrick's story "was told in a 1980 film, starring Anthony Hopkins, and John Hurt as Merrick" this ignores the fact that the stage play by Bernard Pomerance came earlier and I think gave rise to the film, and there was also the book by Ashley Montague which helped popularize knowledge about Merrick's life.
All the best
Chris
(Message edited by ChrisG on May 24, 2004)
(Message edited by ChrisG on May 24, 2004) |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1150
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 4:20 am: | |
Chris,
The medium of the screen is more powerful than stage or page.
Personally ? The plaque is in the wrong place. Anyone wishing to see it will not find it. A more prominant place such as Humberstone gate or Churchgate would have been far better. Main thoroughfares and still linked to Joseph.
On the way to work I walk past the shop where he sort solace with his Uncle and also the place where he lived. The latter is now the site of Wilkinsons and the Radio Station. Joseph wouldnt recognise the Leicester he was born in. The only exceptions would probably be around Humberstone Gate, Churchgate, Wharf st (where the Plaque is) and Loseby lane/Friar lane/St Martins area.
But, as you say, its about time !
Monty
Face cream.....now thats just gayness in a jar... |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 299
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 6:20 am: | |
Monty,
I couldn't find the plaque perhpas I was early or something. Where on Wharf st is it!!!!
Not blind!
Jennifer |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 9:02 am: | |
Jennifer,
Technically the Plague is on Gladstone St, just off Wharf st south.
Walk down Wharf st South from The 3 Cranes pub on Humberstone gate corner. The 1st turn to the right is Erskine st. Ignore that. The 2nd turn to the right is Gladstone st. You should be facing what is now a paint shop of sorts (GM something or other). It is a white building. There, at eye level, is the plaque. You cannot miss it. Ive just driven past it.
Monty
Face cream.....now thats just gayness in a jar... |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 301
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 9:13 am: | |
Thanks Monty I will note down your instructions and investigate further.
ps i love your signed line!
Jennifer |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 10:41 am: | |
Jennifer,
No worries.
I tried to mail it to you but no joy. have you changed your mail address lately?
Monty
Face cream.....now thats just gayness in a jar... |
Maria Giordano
Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 1:37 pm: | |
JTR wasn't the Elephant Man, he was an actual elephant.
He used his trunk to raise the knife over the walls and into the window at Millers Court.This is why no one ever saw bloodstains on him as he made his getaway .
Eddows facial mutilations were actually caused from his panic when a mouse ran across his foot.
Only an elephant could blend into the walls and pavements at night in the fog shrouded, gas lit streets of Darkest Whitechapel.
He killed and mutilated women as a protest over his being an endangered species. He was a dedicated social radical.
My epistomological centre is "An elephant never forgets."
Mags |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 303
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 2:47 pm: | |
Maria
That is a classic post!
MOnty
no I havent it is still the same
I guess the account may be a lttle full because of this bounced it back?
cheers anyway
Jennifer |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 238
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 9:25 pm: | |
MARIA,
Hats Off! Monty summed that up. Thats was awesome!
Paul |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 10:55 am: | |
Guys,
The wonderful Jennifer Pegg pointed me to a site created by a Gent by the name of Stephen Butt. It is a site dedicated to Robert J Lees. Very interesting and if you have time please check it out.
Whats this to do with Merrick Monty ? I hear you cry. Well, pull up a chair and I shall tell you. On this great site there is a photo of The Gladstone Vaults in Leicester. This is now the name of a building which stands on the site of Gaiety Palace of Varieties. The theatre Joseph Merrick use to appear and now the site of a plaque dedicated to his memory.
A shortcut is below.
http://www.rjlees.co.uk/landmarks.htm
Monty
Face cream.....now thats just gayness in a jar... |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 11:20 am: | |
Chris T,
Elephant man...blah....blah....blah...
Merick as the Ripper ?? blah...blah...blah YOU MUST BE JOKING...
...right, thats enough on topic....now off,
Chris, Ive mailed you.
Cheers,
Monty
Face cream.....now thats just gayness in a jar... |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 399
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 11:51 am: | |
The idea of Merrick being the Ripper is cruel and unkind. It would not have been possible for him.
Mikey
P.S. Monty never emails Mikey....... |
Kelly Robinson
Sergeant
Username: Kelly
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 12:14 pm: | |
Maria,
Perhaps it was Jumbo, the elephant that Barnum brought from England to the U.S. and was killed in a train wreck. Perhaps that's why the murders stopped...
Kelly
"The past isn't over. It isn't even past."
William Faulkner |
Jason Scott Mullins
Inspector
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 267
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 10:06 am: | |
Perhaps it was Topsy, the elephant Edison took down to show the world how much more harmful AC was as opposed to DC. Maybe only Edison knew of her guilt and felt he had to put the poor beast down? :P
click here for more info.
crix0r
"I was born alone, I shall die alone. Embrace the emptiness, it is your end." |
brad kelley
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 11:33 pm: | |
just a thought...do you think he hid the body parts in his trunk? |
Maria Giordano
Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 40
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 3:49 pm: | |
Everyone knows that he hid the body parts under his cravat!!
Mags |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1317
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:46 am: | |
Guys,
For those who care. Spotted in last nights Leicester Mercury by yours truely....
.....http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132407&command=displayContent&sourceNode=132390&contentPK=10818853
I find this article incorrect. The site of Merricks birth is now located in a small alleyway situated behind the Jobcentre....goes by the name of Lee Street !!!
This place is around 50-100 yards away from Epic House.
The Leicestershire and Rutland family History society needs to update they're history !!!
Monty
(Message edited by monty on August 25, 2004)
Im off to see the Psy-chia-taay........just to see if Im de-men-taaay. Kiss my bad self.
-Aaron Kosminski. |
Eduardo Zinna
Detective Sergeant
Username: Eduardo
Post Number: 57
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:15 pm: | |
Jack the Ripper was Dumbo.
Cheers,
E. |
Maria Giordano
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 63
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:15 pm: | |
Jason and Kelly--
These horrid slanders against Topsy and Jumbo are really insupportable!
It is clearly documented, as Chris Scott can well testify, that poor Topsy was incarcerated during at least two of the murders in relation to the unfortunate episode of the Queen's zipper.
Jumbo, of course, has long been suspected but the evidence him is ridiculous.He was certainly not left handed and had absolutely no medical knowledge apart from what he may have picked up from his seven brothers who were all surgeons and the 3 years he spent as an orderly at General Hospital in Port Charles, New York.
Really!! Let's move on to more credible suspects.
Mohandas Gandhi, anyone?
Mags |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Chief Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 822
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 4:52 am: | |
Monty,
Leicester and Rutland family History society - i am a member.
Did you see a doc on Merrick relatively recently involving family history they were on that - i know those people!
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr |
AIP
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 12:35 pm: | |
But when was the idea that the Elephant Man might have been the Ripper first published? Is it an old idea? |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:02 pm: | |
I think the whole Elephant Man theory was an online book entitled Dear Boss. I know one of the writers of this book was named Thomas Mead. I read a review of it. It said something to the effect that it provided good circumtancial evidence but was impossible for Merrick to be Jack The Ripper. I really hope to gain more info/
feedback on this book. I do not belive Merrick was
JTR (ok maybe thought it was possible till I did more reasearch on Merrick) Just very curious what
kind of case these writers had on him. I do have
a hunch Merrick may have a one or more unpleasant
communications with a stronger JTR suspect-
O'Donston Stevenson. |
LauraHunt
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 11:29 am: | |
Here is the link to the book: http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?q3=pSJ8EuT2CBU%253d
I'm a huge Merrick fan, so I'd like to see the book myself: by way of historical fiction, you understand. |
Hugo Caissy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 9:20 am: | |
Someone said they saw a man with Annie Chapman the morning of her death around 2 a clock, with a man wearing a top hat (hence the idea of jack having a top hat and a cape all the time)... Didnt Merrick wear a hood ? ;)And if he did wear a top hat, would Annnie even talk to him. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3663
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 8:55 pm: | |
If Merrick turns out to be the Ripper, I will allow myself to be tied to a chair and forced to listen to every record Barbara Streisand ever made. At top volume! Mark that. At top volume!
Robert |
