| Author |
Message |
    
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 615
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:03 am: | 
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Hi All,
Harold Shipman is dead.
According to ITV News, the GP who murdered goodness knows how many of his elderly patients was found hanging in his cell at Wakefield Prison at 06.20 this morning, and pronounced dead at 08.10.
No further details yet.
Caz
(Message edited by Caz on January 13, 2004) |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1832
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:42 am: |
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Stop press : he's just signed his own death certificate.
Robert |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 606
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 8:16 am: |
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I can see him now....
..."just a touch of heartburn Mr Lucifer, nowt to worry about. Take this 5 times a day and sign you name here..."
Bon Voyage Mr Shipman
Monty |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 575
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 2:39 pm: |
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Hi.
I am a firm believer in capital punishment, for crimes , resulting in death, against children, the elderly, infact all murders that were proved to be premeditated.
Shipman was a cold blooded murderer, that actually killed many more people, then our Jack' he was a person who people put their faith and trust in , and he used that , in his obsession with death.
The man [ if one can use that term] should have been executed without mercy, and the only good news is that , he has saved the taxpayer a considerable amount of money, and topped himself.
Richard. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 234
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 10:14 pm: |
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First Ronnie and Reg, then Donald Hume, then Myra
Hindley (before she could be paroled), and now good ole' Doc Shippen. This is a list that I can enjoy seeing stretched with many names. As I said on another thread last year, "C'mon Ian...join your friend Myra!"
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 621
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 5:03 am: |
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Interestingly, relatives of some of those murdered by Shipman expressed anger that he escaped the punishment of spending the rest of his natural behind bars by ending his life – as he made others end theirs – unnaturally.
I don’t think they were exactly cheering about it.
Love,
Caz
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 7:13 am: |
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Caz, point taken about the relatives. Hmm. The trouble is, we had no guarantee whatsoever that Shipman actually would have spent the rest of his life behind bars.
"Oh dear, I've got Alzheimer's, and I've had it since 7.29AM March 31st 2006".
"You poor chap! Have a compassionate release".
Robert |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 191
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 2:07 pm: |
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they feel cheated bcos he choose to die like he choose who of his patients died
jennifer
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Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 632
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 10:36 am: |
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Hi Robert,
Well in that case it’s a blessing Shipman didn’t think of that one.
Or perhaps he did, but forgot all about it and hanged himself instead.
D’oh!
Love,
Caz
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 734
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 4:45 pm: |
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Shipped in
Shipped out
Shipman
who gives a damn. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 236
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:02 am: |
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Personally, as I said above, his death delights me no end. But are they certain it was suicide?
Or did someone manage to play Calcraft or Billington to Dr. Shipman in private?
Jeff |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 138
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 7:09 pm: |
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Hi Jeffrey,
Was it suicide? Who knows? However one reason speculated on by the press this week is that he was worried about his pension.
You see on being sent to prison Shipman lost his NHS pension. But as he died before the age of 60 certain benefits befall his wife, who now stands to gain a lump sum of £100,000 plus a further £10,000 per annum for life.
Apparently in recent months he had talked with his solicitor about his pension rights!
Regards,
John Savage |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 237
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 8:26 pm: |
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Hi John,
The only reason I asked about murder instead of suicide is that in the late 1980s, when Rudolph Hess was found hanged at Spandau Prison, there were questions about whether he had killed himself or had been murdered (his family still believes he was murdered).
So the Doc left a sizeable pension for his wife.
Too bad the families of the victims could not legally attach it.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
LOUISE BROWN
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 8:20 am: |
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I for one am very sorry that Dr Fred Shipman felt he had to take his own life in that 'hell hole' of a prison.
Folks would be WRONG to assume that nobody outside his immediate family mourns his loss or felt sympathy for his case.
Louise
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Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 593
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 10:32 am: |
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Louise,
Are you joking? He killed many innocent people and no right to live. I am glad he's dead. Once a person commits murder and any serious crime I believe they shouldn't be entitled to basic human rights anymore. I think that instead of animal testing they should test on murderers, peodophiles, etc. I mean the stuff is going to be used on humans in the long run.
Sarah |
LOUISE BROWN
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 10:59 am: |
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Sarah,
No, I am not joking........
The case of Fred Shipman is very sad indeed. AND he also SAVED many lives in his career as a Doctor.
Louise |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 600
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 5:40 am: |
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Louise,
Maybe so, but do you honestly think that because he saved lives too that makes it acceptable for him to kill others. He killed at least 15 people but probably his victims neared the 400 mark. He deserves all he got. It is VERY likely that he killed more people than he cured.
I don't think you would find very many people who would agree with you on this.
Sarah |
LOUSE BROWN
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 6:57 am: |
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I believe that Dr Shipman needed help! and counselling when he was 17 years old following the death of his mother from cancer.
He was constantly having to watch her suffer and have pain killing injections of morphine until she received the 'final' one which sent her out of this world into death.
So devastated was he that he runs for hours in the rain, probably with tears streaming down his face. He must have been physically and emotionally exhausted.
I believe that this experience caused him to become emotionally disturbed, but his intellect must have told him that this was illogical, so he tries to suppress it. Of course, the pain and the hurt just went 'deeper in' and lead to what we know today regarding his case.
I think that had he been less sensitive, the effect may well have been different and the outcome and conclusion to all this.
Remember, these days, counselling is the 'in thing' for people of all ages who have been bereaved of a loved one, especially those who have died of a long and terminal illness. Often these relatives are in emotional turmoil, and if it were not for the counselling services which are on offer these days, where would some of them be?
Back in the 1960's, Fred Shipman had none of this.........
If he had, it may have gone some way to preventing this very sad and tragic conclusion.
Louise
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2034
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 9:30 am: |
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Louise, Shipman was not adjudged insane. You may disagree with the doctors, of course. But his final act of benefiting his widow by suicide suggests a cunning personality.
Robert |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 602
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 9:45 am: |
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Louise,
I'm sorry but you cannot blame his murders on the fact that others didn't help him earlier.
Also, I find it interesting that you say:-
....probably with tears streaming down his face. He must have been physically and emotionally exhausted.
This is just a guess. People lose loved ones to cancer and other such things all the time but they don't go mad and kill other people. I lost my grandfather, whom I was very close to, to liver cancer 6 years ago and had no counselling but here I am, one sane individual.
You can't expect us to have sympathy for him as he was a murderer. The only person I feel sorry for is his widow as she didn't know who he was and what he had done (at least I hope not).
Sarah |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 271
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 9:51 am: |
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Oh God please. I am so sick of people going ohhh poor murderer, he had such a tragic life. So he watched his pooor mummy die. Several thousand people watch their parents die and at younger and more tender ages than 17. They don't go out and commit murder because of it. The whole idea is a total crock of excrement.
But the tears streaming down his face fantasy as he runs in the rain is a nice touch and I am sure that imagining this man's supposed heartbreak helps you ignore the heartbreak he caused to thousands of others.
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Michael Raney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 68
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 12:44 pm: |
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Ally,
What with Battered women's syndrome, battered child's syndrome and adult child of an alcoholic syndrome, not mention any type of mental affliction, the day will come when one may commit whatever crime one wants to without having to pay any sort of consequence. What a wonderful society we live in.
We need to wear knee boots cause the sh*t's getting deep!
Mikey |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2038
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 7:18 pm: |
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There seems to me to be muddled thinking on both sides of the general law and order issue.
Stern disciplinarian believers in free will nevertheless desire tough sentences that will modify offenders' behaviour. Contradiction!
Soft-hearted do-gooders who refuse to believe that anyone's responsible for anything nevertheless morally condemn those who would deal harshly with offenders. Contradiction!
One can argue the pros and cons of a subject like capital punishment. Personally i think that in a democracy, it should be put to a referendum.
Robert |
LOUISE BROWN
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 4:31 am: |
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It is unhelpful to compare Dr Shipman losing his mother with others who have lost theirs. Everyone is an individual and there are factors and circumstances that have to be taken into account when we look at his case.
Doctor Shipman was a poor, sad man whose psyche had become twisted in the grieving process over the death of his mother when he was 17 years old.
He was non-violent, and in this one fact alone he is completely unique compared to any other serial killer.
He is still spoken of with respect and admiration by some people with whom he had contact with in the local community.
He saved lives and delivered babies and administered THOUSANDS of NORMAL injections during his time as a doctor.
Even in prison he saved one life of a suicidal cell-mate which was acknowledged by the prison authorities at the time.
It is unfortunate that there can't be some other process in the British judicial system to treat rare and unusual cases such as Frederick Shipman other than the 'all or nothing' prison/and/or institution approach which very clearly failed in his case.
Louise |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 272
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 4:05 pm: |
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Louise,
Everything you just wrote regarding Shipman's reaction to his mother's death is total BS. There is absolutely not ONE shred of evidence or indication that Shipman's behavior was in anyway influenced by his mother's death.
That is just the last pathetic grab that bleeding heart pansies latch on to in an attempt to bring meaning to what is a senseless random act of unimaginable cruelty. Oh wow..sometimes he didn't kill people so he must have been tormented beyond measure to kill those times he did. No reason to think that he logically concluded that if every one of his patients died, he might get caught fairly quickly. And what good acts he did is completely worthless. Whoopee, who cares! Just because he DIDN'T kill some patients, we should all feel bad for him? I don't think so.
And actually the prison system didn't fail in this case. It kept him safely behind bars until his death where he would no longer be a thread to people. Worked marvelously well if you ask me. |
