| Author |
Message |
    
Jane
Police Constable
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 2:29 pm: | 
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Hi All,
Here's a colour up of the backyard of Hanbury Street. Just as a tester. I've got several images of the front coloured up ready which I'll post as well if there is interest, but they're not quite so atmospheric. (only my opinion).
Hope this works.
Jane |
Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 438
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 2:39 pm: |
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It certainly worked and it looks great, Jane, thanks! I look forward to more of your work.
All the best,
Frank 
"Every disadvantage has it's advantage."
Johan Cruijff
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2754
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 2:51 pm: |
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Jane!
That looks great indeed. You're absolutely amazing!
Your work is certainly worth looking forward to.
All the best
Glenn, Sweden
P.S. may I ask how you do it? If you're using a computer program, which is it? Just curious, since I am somewhat in the business myself...
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:13 pm: |
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Hi Glenn,
I hope Stephen doesn't mind me doing this here, but I'll only do it once and then I'll e-mail technical stuff to anyone mad enough to be interested.
All my work is done in Photoshop. The colour ups are done using Adjustment layers and mainly 'curves' in cmyk. The reconstructions are done literally as paintings, sometimes over photo montages, then textured any way I can. I use the clone tool and smudge tool a lot. Having now sent most of the members into a semi permanent coma, I'll quit while I'm ahead. I'll be glad to e-mail serious details of my techniques to anyone if they get in touch.
All the best Jane
xxxxx
I just realised I made Sergeant, hows that for rapid promotion, flatfoot to stripes in one day!
Yippee!!!! |
George Hutchinson
Police Constable
Username: Philip
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |
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Jane - with this information, do you think it is likely you will be able to improve the quality of the PN shot? I'm not referring here to your STIRLING artistic recreations, but just a clean-up of the image? Whilst on that tack, does anyone know where I can download DECENT quality jpegs of the famed shots? I have them in dozens of books but every time I see them on-line they are cropped, poor quality or very small.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3835
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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Great stuff, Jane.
I don't think Stephen will mind all that technical stuff - in fact I think he's heavily into picture colouring/enhancement himself.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2756
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:45 pm: |
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Exactly, Robert.
Jane,
I figured it was Photoshop -- I use that myself. Just couldn't help asking -- call it an occupational hazard.
Anyway, great stuff. The tools are unimportant anyway if you don't have the skills and the talent, which I'd say you have.
I would have liked the picture to be a bit bigger in size (as long as it doesen't exceed the 600X600 pixels), but it may be that Stephen is trying to save bandwith, I don't know.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 09, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 4:52 pm: |
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Hi All,
I'd be happy to e-mail a slightly bigger shot to anyone that wants them as long as it doesn't get silly. I was worried about how long it would take to load the page, if it gets a lot of pics on it, if I made it any bigger. I'll be a bit more brazen for good pics.
Jane |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
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Hi all,
Last one tonight I promise. Still can't sleep despite another sherry. As it's night time here in the UK I thought I'd post a night time view of Miller's Court. JtR is still in there. I'll post a daytime view of the same scene tomorrow.
Sweet dreams!
Jane
XXXXX |
George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 6:52 pm: |
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Jane, you just know that some day soon someone is going to pay you for these to use them in a book on the Ripper, don't you? And rightfully so too. Astounding. Truly astounding. I've never seen software so skillfully used on what I presume is mostly drawings!
PHILIP
PS : I too have made Sergeant in a single day so Glenn - no Police Constable any more; get your own bloody coffee! 
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3839
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 6:54 pm: |
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Oh yes! Very atmospheric. Marvellous stuff, Jane.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2759
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 6:58 pm: |
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Jane!!!!
You are brilliant! A true artist, my God!
Be sure to copyright those pictures, because Philip is indeed right. A copyright mark and your name and the year.
What an incredible piece of work!
So accurate! And atmospheric; beautiful and mysterious, and realistic at the same time. I am totally baffled -- hats off!!!!
Philip!
I am still a few ranks higher than you.... Now, where's that coffee...? 
All the best
Glenn, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 7:16 pm: |
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Hi Glen,
Thanks so much for your comments. I really appreciate your kind words. I've been a fine artist/illustrator commercially for most of my life, but I still think I could do better.
I'll probably think that for the rest of my life. My high resolution pictures are all copyrighted, as there are so many of them. I didn't bother to put a copyright on the low res pictures but I will in future, just to let people know that the pictures are all copyrighted. Thanks for the nudge though. I'll blame it on the sherry!
all the best
Jane
xxxx |
George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 7:16 pm: |
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Just a moment, Glenn, it's coming. I'm just speaking to a Dr Hawley Harvey Crippen. He has some hyoscine I need to buy from him...
The coffee may be a little more bitter than usual...
I have just noticed one thing that will possibly make me really unpopular, and I hope it doesn't detract from the sincerity of how superb your work is, Jane, but on the Miller's Court picture you have it all as 2 stories (you can see the night sky over the archway) - 26 & 27 Dorset Street were 3 stories; Miller's Court were 2 stories behind it though.
I hope you don't mind me pointing this out - I feel terrible doing it when what you have done is a miracle!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2763
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 7:46 pm: |
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Hutch!
No problem. I like my coffee strong, just make sure it's black. 
Yes, you're probably right, I believe, regarding the storeys. I think I've seen that on pictures, although I am not prepared to swear on it. I am a bit dusty on that detail.
Still, I don't think it's the end of the world, but you may be right.
A great job anyway. It's such a beautiful picture.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2764
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 8:05 pm: |
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I do like that night scene (but I am convinced we'll be totally blown away by the daytime scene as well).
I mean just look at the light inside the windows -- one wonder what really goes on in there, right? A real treat for the dark side of our imagination.
Jane,
Good thing. I somehow more or less took for granted that you had secured and copyrighted your high resolution pictures (hope you didn't think I underestimated you) -- I just wanted to make sure, just in case. Not all people -- even professionals -- have a total clue of this, in my experience (strangely enough). So great work.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 8:06 pm: |
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Hi Glenn & Jane (and anyone else!).
I can see why you have put it as only 2 stories, Jane. Looking at the Police News sketch you took it from they have put it as such; their error - not yours.
However, just to prove it...
Sincere best wishes
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3197
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 8:58 pm: |
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Hi Jane -
Excellent artwork - thanks for sharing it with us!
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Andrew Gable
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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Speaking of the Hanbury Street backyard photo, I always had a question about that. One of the piled boards on the left side has a big patch of discoloration on it -- is that perhaps some sort of makeshift stretcher or something used to cart Annie's body out? I know it's probably not, but I'll just check. Just for jolly, wouldn't you?
;) |
George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 6:24 am: |
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I had always presumed, Andrew, that the Hanbury Street backyard shot was not contemporary with the murders and so the boards would have nothing to do with it. If you've seen 'The London Nobody Knows', the James Mason travelogue film from 1967, you will see the backyard of 29 was covered in rubbish like this.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 17
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 7:33 am: |
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Hi Philip,
Thank you so much for your comment about Dorset Street. I was working from the Police sketch, did they have eyes I wonder? (Mind you I should have spotted it) Now you've pointed it out I can see that it should be 3 storeys high at the back and I'll correct it for the daytime shots that I'll be posting some time today. Not quite sure what I'll stick there, possibly just brick wall to be on the safe side. I guessed at it being yellow brick from the front views of the building, any offers on this one before I post? I can make it any colour you like.
I'm sure you'll see a lot more wrong with the daytime shots. Please point out any mistakes so that I can correct them. I was working blind a lot of the time.
Not sure about the Hanbury Street boards. I do know that the yard hardly changed for donkeys years so it at least looks almost identical to the way it did on the night of the murder, even if the photo is not contemporary.
Jane
xxxxx
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George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 8:43 am: |
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Hi Jane.
The 'recent' discovery of the 1920s photo of the demolition of Dorset Street does give us a clue. It is very bad quality, but I have done what I can. This is the back of the buildings (at least, we are all presuming it is!). It does indeed look like at the back of the building the 2nd floor (3rd for you Americans!) has an unusual sloping roof all the way down it doesn't have at the front (maybe that's why the Police News sketch of the front of the building I posted last night shows no roof?). There is some kind of guttering(?) system seperating 26 & 27 and there are garret windows clearly visible in the middle of both numbers.
This informs me of something else - a huge amount of rain would have therefore run right down the back of these buildings and, given the weather conditions, it is easy to imagine a constant torrential loud splatter of water. Presuming the site would be low-maintenance, it is easy to imagine the guttering blocked up and anyone coming down into Millers Court basically running under a waterfall as they came out through the arch. What do you think?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 8:46 am: |
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Further to my post I have just realised, of course, that Prater's room was above Kelly's so there IS a third floor AND a garret room as well. It does make the lack of sloping roof at the front on the Police News sketch a mystery though - unless you take it as read that if they got Miller's Court wrong, they can get the street wrong as well. It appears there might be a window directly over the archway too.
PHILIP
(feeling a bit stupid)
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2770
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:03 am: |
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Regarding the bricks on the front view, like Jane's asking about.. does someone have an idea about this? Was it yellow or dark red/brown bricks?
Judging from the b&w photos, it can be either way, although I would settle for the latter. Yellow brick-work seems somewhat of a newer invention, but it could be that it is the architecural styles in Sweden that are clouding my judgements. I am not certain regarding England or the London area. The style, colour and quality of the brick-work is generally a thing that is closely attached to local circumstances on the site.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 10, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:18 am: |
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I'd agree with you, Glenn.
Why have expensive yellow bricks in a filthy area? Buildings were commonly repeatedly covered in whitewash (just take a look at the photo of the back of 13 Miller's Court) and it is POSSIBLE that the front may have been at the time (I would suspect, though, it was just a lazy artist who couldn't be bothered to shade up the buildings on the IPN sketch). I would doubt it, though. Looking at all the other buildings in the area of that style - bog-standard red bricks, Jane!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:21 am: |
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And I can't believe I said there was no roof skecthed on the IPN one - it looks like the roof is only visible at that point because it then changes angle. Not a typical inverted V, but a 4-sided roof - this appears to be the case on the 1920s demolition shot.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1414
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:25 am: |
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Jane,
yet another amazing image.I love the touch of mystery given by the light here in Millers Court.Quite redolent of the macabre drama being enacted within!
Honestly a photograph taken in colour in the Autumn of 1888 at that very time of night [ and in the case of Hanbury Street-morning- ]would and could not have done the scenes better pictorial justice.Again they really come to life!
Natalie |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2773
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:36 am: |
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Hutch,
I agree, I think I would settle for dark red/brown bricks in this case. It would seem more credible and fitting for a cheap working class environment as the one we see in East End.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 20
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:11 am: |
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Hi
Thanks to everyone for your help. I am just struggling wih the background of one of the views, but when that's done I will let you have them all.
The sloping roof is a pain in the rear, literally.
I know mrs Prater's room was directly above, got that and the window over the passage, fine. I'm not too sure what happens above Mrs Praters. I could crop the image and cheat, but don't want to, so I'll put up what I've got and see how we get on.
Thanks to Philip for the photo of demolition. I had forgotten all about them. I've raked them out and it has helped a lot.
Red brick it is! I'll just get the old red paint out.
Jane |
George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
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Jane - pretty sure it is a large window in the centre directly above Prater's room.
Add Mr Diddles on the window sill!
Bum - I am trying to add the cat icon here but, like 50% of the time, it won't upload onto the screen. Still, the intention is there.
Can I ask, Jane, how are you proposing to work on the MJK picture? I have seen a much clearer copy of the Miller's Court shot (Stewart Evans has it) and about 1/3 of her face is still extant, much more than you would expect from the grainy and pixilated / dot matrixed versions you usually see.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 12:02 pm: |
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Hi,
Here I am again,
I'll post two of the Miller's Court views here now, but I think they might need some twiddling with. Comments greatly appreciated about major flaws in the scene!
The first is a view of Mary's room, as posted last night but in daylight. I've adjusted the bit showing the back of Dorset Street, and it's now glorious red brick. I've probably cleaned it up a bit too much, but I run out of grime!
As I was doing the reconstructions, quite a few things struck me about the Mary Kelly case. Not so much this one, but one of the other views particularly. I can't wait to hear if it brings any new ideas to anyone else.
Here it is then
Jane
 |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 12:09 pm: |
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Here's the next one,
Sepia this time I'm afraid, of the long view of Miller's Court. I used the photo that most people thought was Miller's Court , but wasn't.(The one with the shutters and the washing) and some sketches.
One thing I'm not sure of though, were these two or three storey? Totally lost there.
If they are 3 storey, I'll have to get my bricklaying gear on.
Jane
 |
George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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Wow Jane! More brilliance! You are OK - Miller's Court was one-up, one-down. I've never understood where the entrances were for the 1st Floor residents though (2nd Floor to our American cousins). Mmm - I can almost see Sarah Lewis going into that left-hand door!
What is it that has 'struck' you then? The first thing that comes to me is - from your plan at least - there are now 2 prospective escape routes if he was brazen enough to draw attention by going over the fence (if it was a fence and not a gate) at the end of the Court? Am I warm?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 2:00 pm: |
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Hi Philip,
I think that there was a fence or possibly wall at the end of Miller's Court, unless anyone has other ideas, but I think it was only up to the height, I've shown it, which is scalable, but that hadn't actually struck me. Daft old bat!
I think that the other view which I might be able to get up tonight gives more to think about if it is accurate.
Jane
xxxxx |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2776
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 2:47 pm: |
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Indeed wow, Jane.
Great stuff as usual. I must admit I have never seen this second view before, and if it really were a fence at the rear end of the court -- and if it's not too high or a wall -- it could make an alternative escape route. However, my knowledge about the exact layout of Miller's Court is not what it should be, so I wish I could give you some more information.
To a certain degree on some details, we are just left to speculate, I guess.
But from what I've read, Millers' Court is described as a "cul-de-sac", which could indicate that it ended with either a wall (which should be the case, if it really would be a true cul-de-sac) or a high fence.
I would recommend, at least (since this is a sepia picture and you therefore can't distinguish parts with the help of colour, only degrees of grey here), that you in some way makes the fence to stand out a little bit more, so that one really feels that it is a blind alley with full stop, or just turn it into a wall. The far background behind the fence is nearly in the same shade as the fence, which makes the court feels more open, at a fast glance. Try and make the fence a bit lighter in a shade similar to the walls or distinguish it on the top with a narrow line of light to make it stand out from the background (or turn the whole thing into a wall), so that one feels that the court really closes on you.
Just a suggestion.
Really great work. Haha. I love those ground tiles (don't know what it's called in English), that sticks up and is beginning to loosen themselves.
Really feels now like Miller's Court is coming to life. Wonderful, Jane.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 10, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 415
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
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Hi Jane
Some wonderful images there. The night time image of Millers Court looks 3 Dimensional to me.
26 Dorset Street was 3 storeys high, when you exited the arch into Millers Court the remaining portion was two storeys. So Number 13 Millers Court was as we know ground floor and then Mrs Praters room was directly above then a sloping roof. I've coloured the demolition picture which I hope helps.
The end of Millers Court was a brick wall. I hope these two images help
I am looking forward to seeing more of your work.
All the best
Rob |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2777
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 2:57 pm: |
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Hi Rob,
Thanks for that.
I do suspect as well that the rear end would a be brick wall (plastered or not) -- not that I think the picture above really proves that, it is not completely clear on that point, though, but still...
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 10, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3851
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 3:42 pm: |
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More great work, Jane. I loved the slight suggestion of someone standing at the end of the passage in the first one.
If I had to be picky...door looks too smart. And what's with the letterbox?
But that's a minor thing.
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 32
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 3:53 pm: |
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Glenn - we call them flagstones, or paving slabs.
Rob - I will defer to your greater knowledge, but are you sure there wasn't a window above the arch on the floor above the one you've marked too? It certainly looks like it on the demolition shot.
STOP PRESS!!!
I have just checked my 1894 map and there was a building built onto the end of the Court.
I've marked it on the plan below - sorry about the quality; wish I could make it better! Jane, if you work out what this looked like I'll "give you the money meself" as the great Les Dennis (surely a potential JTR victim today? Please?) would say.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 416
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 3:54 pm: |
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Hi Glenn
I think it was the back of a brick building entered from the Brushfield Street end. No idea what it was for though.
All the best
Rob |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2778
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:00 pm: |
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Thanks Rob and Hutch,
Yes indeed. It looks like it is the back of a brick building, and the map shows that this must be the case as well.
Great, guys.
OK, Jane. So... a brick wall it is.
Looking forward to more of your marvellous stuff.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 10, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 417
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Hi Phillip
I see what you mean, but I can't be sure myself. There possibly is one, actually I would be surprised if there isn't one. I'll have to see about trying to get a better copy.
All the best
Rob |
Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 439
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:14 pm: |
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Hi all,
First of all, Jane, you've really made those places come to life! They're absolutely fabulous!
Secondly, this dissertation by the late Viper: (http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-viperdossier.html) tells us that buildings in Miller's Court were two storeys high.
"In 1888, Miller's Court had four units on the left, (the last not being used as accommodation) and three on the right. Numbering started with no. 1, downstairs on the left, with no. 2 above it, running down the left side and back up on the right such that no. 12 was upstairs, nearest to Mary Jane's window."
Thirdly, according to an 1894 map there was a building directly at the north end of Miller's Court, which would support the fact that it was described as a 'cul-de-sac' and that there was only one way in and out of Miller's Court.
All the best,
Frank
"Every disadvantage has it's advantage."
Johan Cruijff
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Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 440
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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Oops, I see Philip has beaten me to it!
"Every disadvantage has it's advantage."
Johan Cruijff
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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Thanks so much to everyone,
Although I've posted in sepia, it is actually a colour pic, but I have had to post some in montone, for various reasons.
I think you're right, it is a brick wall and not a fence and probably a bit higher than I've got it, but I suppose unless it was really high, he could have shunted over it - or did the building there actually block the end of the cul de sac as a total dead end?
Looking at the last map, there seems to be a possibility of a tiny alley seperating the end of Miller's Court and the next building because there is a double line there. It would be interesting to find out for certain as this could have given JtR another exit.
Hi Robert,
Blimey a letterbox! I must have been drunk!
I am getting the hammer and chisel out as we speak. I will also kick them about a bit to make them look really grim. Thanks.
I'm posting a couple more now 2 versions of the same view.
Jane
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2780
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:23 pm: |
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Jane,
I think the best thing to do would be to make it as a complete cul-de-sac, with a brick wall at the end. I would assume that the building (from its size on the map) would have been at least two storeys high.
In the police material, there seems to be no indication of that there were more than one way out of Miller's Court.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:32 pm: |
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This might be a bit controversial, but I've covered my bets. there are 2 versions here one with a WC and one without. I've seen 2 maps of Miller's Court and one seems to show a small brick construction by the dustbins.
I'm sure that I read that there was a WC in the Court and if there was, then I thought that the most logical place for it was by the pump and dustbins. If for no other reason than the drainage system and what better place to put it than with the other 'facilities' (for want of a better word!)
Also it would seem likely that they would place it by the entrance passage, rather than further down.
As they definitely didn't have indoor loos, they would have had to have poured their slop buckets somewhere, and short of carting them along the street, there would have to have been something.
Any other ideas?
Jane
xxxxxxx
Sorry they're a bit rough, I wanted to get them up as was, because I know that there are going to be mega changes! |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:41 pm: |
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okay, that worked not!
I haven't even had a sherry yet! I'll have another go. Slapped wrist. Sorry!
Jane
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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Just a follow up
Here's the section of the demolition picture I used. I think that is a lowish wall with a wooden fence along the top at the back there, although it is hard to see. Any offers on that one?
Jane |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2781
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:56 pm: |
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Hi Jane.
Great textures and colouring; I really like that colour scale. I see that you even managed to include the small elevation closest to the wall.
I think the one with the WC looks best, although I am not sure where it really was situated.
One thing that troubles me (if anything can trouble me with your marvellous pictures) is the distorted perspective (like when a camera is exaggerating the perspective). Kelly's house facade from the corner closest to us, back to the wall, seems to stretch a bit too long and stretches it out like a camera would do. Instead the wall, because of the direction, would in fact look more narrow instead of this wide.
I am sure it makes me a bugger, but you wanted advice and opinions.
Otherwise, astounding work as usual.
Heck, you work fast, girl!!!! How on Earth do you do it? I know you're experienced, but still...
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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pump yard with WC