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Jane Coram
Chief Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 606
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 1:29 pm: | 
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HI Suzi,
Hee hee, well I don't mind us being daft together, and I do think that no one will ever really understand it or how it works.......one of nature's mysteries. I suspect Natalie might have the same 'feelings' as we do, to some extent or another......one thing is certain, it does happen and can't just be poo pooed away.
I'm not sure how it works either......but artistic people do seem to have it more often than many others........precognitive dreams, seeing auras, telepathy, psychometry........natural healing........they all seem as natural to some people as doing the washing up.
There are of course many fraudulent mediums......I was a medium for many years and saw just how manipulative they can learn to become......which was what put me off in the end......some are very genuine and very accurate, but way too many are either misguided people that believe that they are receiving messages from elsewhere or actually fraudulent and using people's grief for financial gain......sometimes they are genuine, but just don't have that much talent.
As has been said, the psychic has to interpret what they are getting and they often get accurate information through, but just don't have the skill or the experience to interpret it properly. Sometimes they just make mistakes, it's not an exact science......However when they do hit pay dirt the results can be totally amazing.......and enough to convince anyone that there is far more in the universe than any of us imagine.
I have lost track of the predictive dreams I have had which were so specific that no one could put them down to chance......... although my contact with the paranormal has not all been positive and I treat it with a great deal of caution as everyone should.
I will probably watch tonight around other things....but as Howard said, it will be interesting how they connect someone jumping off of Tower Bridge to Jack.......time travel as well perhaps?
Do I know who Jack was? I wish, but I can tell you who he wasn't! 
Hugs,
Jane
xxxx
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 1:34 pm: |
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Not knowing the end result or selection that the people involved will conclude...what I was inferring is that should they select Druitt,then they have some serious 'splaining to do....or any other suspect that we know who did not drown or jump off that Bridge prior to 1894.
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 275
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 2:03 pm: |
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Interesting that You Mention Druitt,
I know one well known medium (One that has never been on TV by the way) that gave me quite alot of information about Druitt...although she also connected him to another person.
I'm not sure personally what I beleive...I'm afraid I've never had any experiences, ghostly, psychic or otherwise...apart from the odd coincidence.
I do however Beleive that a serious television 'Psychic Investigation' into the Ripper crimes could be brilliant and worth while, especially if that programme gave a serious platform to people like Neil Sheldon, Paul Begg and recon specialista like Andy Aliffe.
Its such an anoying missed oppertunity.
Still if you wanted to come up with a picture of your interpretation of the Ripper..I'd be happy to give you a platform to Jane.
Oh such wasted oppertunity..
Although the various psychics I've worked with have come up with very differant results and suspects...there are a few things that have, strangely, been reoccurring themes..wonder if Derek will pick up on this?
Jeff
Driutt is surely a better idea than some Tony.
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Rodney Gillis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Srod
Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 2:07 pm: |
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I watched over half of the show and I have never laughed so hard in my life! Somebody said it best earlier when they said that it's like watching Scooby Doo. I am a skeptic but I like to think that I have an open mind. I have read and seen examples of things that I cannot explain so I am willing to listen. But . . .I didn't get off the pickle boat yesterday and last night was a real hoot! I especially loved the e-mail messages coming in of people seeing things from the webcam. I think I saw Jack in my shower last night, or was it Alfred Hitchcock . . . I get so confused.
I'll be watching tonight, if I can get my stomach muscles to stop hurting.
Rod |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1080
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 2:36 pm: |
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Hi Jeff,
If you think enough of people like Neal Shelden or Paul Begg (or any of a number of researchers) to want to give them a serious platform, what do you need a psychic for? A psychic's not going to do any better work than Neal has done in the archives.
Maybe you feel the need for a psychic angle to sell a show about the Ripper? If so, that's sad, because the real story has, all by itself, all the elements necessary for good television. There's certainly an abundance of conflict and mystery within the historical record. The story is capable of standing alone.
For the life of me, I don't know why someone in television or film doesn't do a good Ken Burns-style documentary on the Ripper. I mean a simple approach: archival photographs interspersed with interviews of established, knowledgable researchers and readings by voice actors. For goodness sakes, there's more eloquence and drama in Kate Eddowes's inventory list than a thousand psychics or dramas could ever provide. I guess no one in the entertainment field is hungry enough to do the work. Some passion and care for the subject matter is required, and of course, documentary work, unlike these psychic programs, calls for the ego to be checked at the door, since the subject does all the talking. Often Ripperology is just so much snickering ass-grabbing, don't you think?
I guess it's just cheaper to round up a psychic and let them ramble on. It's fun to watch, all right (I watched Most Haunted, too), but there's so much more to be found in the real story.
Maybe some day!
Dave
(Message edited by oberlin on October 29, 2005) |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4201
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 2:46 pm: |
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Hi Dave,
I agree with you, but surely some attempts of this kind have been made several times already, although many of them contains numerous errors.
The best one so far is in my mind 'To KIll and Kill Again', which is the one Ripper documentary to date that is most accurate and challenging (although some slight errors do occure) and also contains the most impressive line of experts from different fields.
I fail to see why the documentary thing you are asking for, should be anything new.
As far as using psychics in old murder case, I would say that it only has curiosity value, since their statements or 'finds' can't be proven by documentation or physical evidence. Which is why the police seldom psychics in murder cases, except for looking for a missing body (which has happened on occasion but only to my knowledge with one or two good results). The work or statements of a psychic medium would be considered as those from an ordinary witness, but since it can't be verified with true evidence it wouldn't stand up in court anyway.
Even if a medium manages to find a name and location of the murderer, you still have to find physical evidence or other witness statements to back it up.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on October 29, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 276
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 3:04 pm: |
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Get Real Dave
What do you actually know about making television? Have you ever tried to get a television programme or series commisioned? What is your experience?
Have you been to Channel 4 and talked to the commisioning editors? Have you ever tried the BBC...have you approached channel 5?
My guess from your comments is that you have nay.
I on the other hand have.
And I'm fairly pissed off about the general standard of programmes that have been dished out to us over the past thirty years.
And I'm trying to do something about this at least.
The reality is it costs money to put a crew out in the feild and record anything. Sound men Camera's, researchers, Ap's, Editors, Sound mixers, exec producers, drivers runners, Hotel bills...add on
What do you know for christ sake...
Some off us have a passion about this subject and would like to do it justice.
There are things that are connected to the Ripper crimes that could make facinating Television..few and far between yes..but there.
I know because I've done the research, I have the experience and could make an excellant programme based on this.
Other programmes require some poor sole to be a suspect and framed up as the Ripper.
A properly undertaken 'Psychic investigation' could just flag up possiblilities and perhaps discuss more interesting areas like the Victims themselves...they were not just prostitutes they were human beings...
There are loads of intereesting debates that could be had....a psychic investigation needs no conclusion just great recon and getting the facts strate.
All a psychic can ever really do is give colour and interesting stuff to discuss. Thats what I've been saying...Whether you beleive or not is irrelivant..its about good film making.
Jeff
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David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1081
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 3:08 pm: |
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Hi Glenn,
No, if I have the right documentary, "To Kill and Kill Again" is a documentary about various serial killers. What I would like to see is a documentary dedicated solely to the Whitechapel murders--an in- depth one, imagine a mini-series along the lines of Sugden and Sourcebook combined. Rumbelow, Evans, Skinner, Begg, Fido, etc in their own words. Shelden on the victims. Evans, Rumbelow and Begg on the police. Sugden himself, if you could get him. Chisholm, Yost, and DiGrazia on the press. Peter Higginbotham on workhouses. Chisholm on Jekyll & Hyde. And some other people I can think of. And some historians. NO profilers, NO detectives, or any other kind of psychic! And some good voice actors.
Jeff, why don't you make it? It can't cost as much as what the BBC is spending on their movie.
Dave |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1082
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 3:16 pm: |
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Jeff. I am only telling you what I want to see. Color? The East End in 1888's not colorful enough for you?
"There are things that are connected to the Ripper crimes that could make facinating Television..few and far between yes..but there."
It's far better than few and far between. . .If you deplore television of the past thirty years, why don't you do something about since you're in a position to?
You don't need a psychic to show the humanity of East End prostitutes. Haven't you read Neal Shelden's books? As far as I know, no psychic was involved in writing them.
Certainly documentaries cost money. Comparatively, what's the BBC spending on their movie?
You're in the field. You claim to care about the subject and history; I believe you. Why not go balls out?
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 277
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 3:33 pm: |
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Glenn
No information given by a psychic would stand up in any court in the world. They way it works is simple. Some police, unofficially, will confront suspects during an interveiw with information and gage the reaction...thats how it works.
Psychic information only has its use as a piont of referance. You can use this information to help you look in the right areas. the CIA used information to narrow search areas. Thats about the best you can expect..cross referance..its simply that hit and miss..but there is some scientific evidence for the use of random factors.
Dave..Let them eat cake..
Jeff
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David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1083
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 3:57 pm: |
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Jeff,
"Let them eat cake" Is that you, Marie Antoinette? Knock twice for "yes".  |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4202
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 4:07 pm: |
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Dave,
No, 'To Kill And Kill Again' is a series of different serial killers, but one episode (number one or two) is devoted entirely to the Whitechapel Murders. To this date it is the most in-depth, concerning itself mostly to facts (it is also quite long, almost feature format). Nearly all the known authors and researchers is in it plus other experts as well from other fields. I have the film myself.
I must say I am a bit puzzled about your comment 'And some historians. NO profilers, NO detectives, or any other kind of psychic!" I am myself a historian, but I fail to see why they are more relevant than for example people from the police force - after all, it is a murder case as well as a historical event.
The great advantage with 'To Kill And Kill Again' is just its broad variety of different experts from different fields.
All the best
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4203
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 4:09 pm: |
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Jeff,
"No information given by a psychic would stand up in any court in the world. They way it works is simple. Some police, unofficially, will confront suspects during an interveiw with information and gage the reaction...thats how it works.
Psychic information only has its use as a piont of referance. You can use this information to help you look in the right areas. the CIA used information to narrow search areas. Thats about the best you can expect..cross referance..its simply that hit and miss..but there is some scientific evidence for the use of random factors."
I entirely agree; that is how I see it as well. Well put.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on October 29, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 278
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 4:51 pm: |
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Knock......echo echo..echo ..echo..echo and echo |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 4:53 pm: |
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Hi Glenn,
Thanks very much for that. I will have to check out "To Kill and Kill Again" as it sounds like maybe it's what I'm after. I would like to see a Ken Burns "Civil War" approach to the Whitechapel murders, a historian's approach.
The reason I say no profilers or detectives is because I'm talking about presenting documentation, not a show about criminal investigation. Don't get me wrong, anybody would love to solve the case (and it would be something if someone did), so I'm not saying tracking the mystery isn't valid. But a show that's just documenting events might answer the question, "Who was Jack the Ripper?" by saying, "Whitechapel." See what I mean?
So what I'm talking about is a discussion about the crimes purely as a piece of history. So suspects and their lives are a good area for discussion for such a project, just like the the victims and the police, but the goal isn't to solve the case, it's just to document it as a historical, social phenomenon. So you have the researchers who have put in thousands of hours in the archives and maybe a couple of Victorian historians to add context, if you need them. I mean, you could have a profiler come in and talk about what type of person Jack the Ripper might have been, but then to provide an audience with a solid footing, you'd have to have several since no one agrees. Then all you've got is just another argument. Likewise a detective, although a historian of detectives, like Begg, Evans, or Rumbelow is totally different, because they know how the Met and City of London police operated and why they might have done things differently than a detective today.
So, I say, just present the story through period photographs, music, and documents (voice acted); experts could provide commentary. Maybe if you expanded it to cover Ripperology itself, which would also be interesting, then profilers and detectives would be more relevant. Alternatively, a good organized debate on Ripper suspects between their various advocates would also be entertaining and informative, but that would be another program entirely. I don't mean in a mock trial, but in a good, rollicking old-style English debate. Of course, I don't know if many would really want to participate since some researchers seem to be over it.
Anyway, that is just what I'm interested in seeing. I think other people would be too--Jeff mentions reconstructions and they do what they do, but you see how everybody enjoys it when people post old photographs, or when Andy Spallek (I think he was the one, sorry Andy) posted about that link to those Crystal Palace recordings from 1888. Talk about eerie--they're scratchy and faint, but listen, actual voices from 1888. How cool. What a great soundtrack. There is really something special about these old archival artifacts. They capture the imagination like few reconstructions can, so I think history can also be entertaining all on its own.
But I will try to track down the show you've mentioned. Thanks for letting me know about it, my friend.
Dave
(Message edited by oberlin on October 29, 2005) |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 279
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 4:55 pm: |
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I'm afraid I'm not a historian Glenn but lets do a pitch......The evidence for recannonizing TABRAM.....
We'll leave the psychics out as their toll counts are just out there..
Jeff |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4204
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 5:05 pm: |
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"I'm afraid I'm not a historian Glenn but lets do a pitch......The evidence for recannonizing TABRAM....."
Don't even go there, Jeff.
All the best
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 280
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 5:15 pm: |
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Actually Dave I think I owe you an appology...your choices were infact excellent..I've just grown to tierd and cynical..
I've decided to accept the psychic challenge programme I was offered at 5..but only because i have a mortgage to pay.
I've just pitched so many better programmes that have been turned down...
Currently working on a series based around the claim that the Nazi's let off three atomic tests in 1944.
Television however has become about veiwing figures and formats...
It's very hard to get decent commisions...
enjoy Most Haunted...there are worse than Living TV.
Jeff |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 5:23 pm: |
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Hi Jeff,
You don't owe me an apology at all. It's easy to spout off on what I think should be done, but it's altogether something different to actually do it. Truly, it would be a massive project and logistically difficult. I'm sorry if I offended; I was speaking generally about psychic shows and not about you in particular. Of course, people also have to earn a living and I'm sure it's rare when someone allows you free reign.
Keep pitching and researching, maybe one day someone will say "yes" to what you really want to do. I would say, just go do it, but it's hard to take the big risk when you have a family to care for. But plan for success, someone once said, and I believe it.
Best of luck with your upcoming projects.
Dave |
Alan Hunt
Sergeant
Username: Mews
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 6:05 pm: |
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All
more power to Max the psychic Alsation-the new derek acorah!! |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 281
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 6:16 pm: |
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Dave you are a gentleman..I become frustrated because I'm aware that we should be doing better by our audeinces.
Actually I gather Discovery Europe are looking for idea's with a genuinely Europian appeal...perhaps we should do something Glenn.
The problem with TV commisions is that they are driven by commisioning editors.
The way it works is that they flag up what programmes and styles they are looking for. When you go in with a pitch they are looking for simple one liners that fit their breifs.
Its always a case of trying to knock your rounded idea into a square hole.
The BBC are a closed shop..and channel 4 very clicky, although they have the budgets for such things...so the few channels that do commision programmes on the other channels, Living TV for instance, have very particular style requirements.
Its been sugested to me that pay per veiw could change this situation dramatically..
Within the next few years programmes will increasingly be, on demand, you will be able to watch what you want to watch on your mobile phone or on your television.
Minority websites like casebook could then fesably commision programmes and put them out there. People paying for whjat they want...its not actually that far off...if it wasnt for the mortgage I'd give it a go...because programmes can be made well and edited on programmes like Final cut pro very well and very cheaply.
So the idea of casebook making a programme getting it out there and turning a profit is not that far off...all you need is a decent director, with the will, the enery and some production costs.
I've also looked at HDV. A new high definition format that gives almost film quality pictures for the price of mini DV.
So although my offer was somewhat tongue in cheek Glenn...its not out of the realms of possibility...the technology is there..
And my sincerity about making a programme about you and Inaki battling it out about Tabram was also...it could be done...this website could provide that programme on stream...and distribute that programme via pay per veiw to peoples mobiles..
It really is not that far out, even though some of you may think I'm mad.
Casebook will very soon have the ability to distribute its own programmes. The question is do the people who make their posts have the will to make it happen?
Perhaps you'd even raise enough money to do the tests on that 'Bloody' Diary.
Jeff
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4205
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 6:30 pm: |
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Jeff,
Do you know what? I am open to any interesting suggestion. In the paranormal department I believe we at least have a lot in common and it is an absolute pleasure to see someone else thinking along the same lines and with similar thoughts on the subject as myself. But then I like you also have a friend who is a psychic medium and who has done a lot of television in Sweden. So I know where you're coming from.
In any case it seems like we both might have more interesting things to chat about than we first realised.
You can always email me on gl.andersson@hotmail.com, if you feel like it. Don't use the message function on my profile page, because I think that leads to my old, now defunct email address.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on October 29, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2537
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 7:20 pm: |
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Hi Jane,
I often rely on intuition and instinct.
Otherwise I dont have an interest or belief
in anything paranormal.
Natalie
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3040
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 7:49 am: |
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yes,
exactly what' wrong with proper documentaries. Even if a psychic did know who JTR was (*cough* even a contemporary one) i don't think thats evidence that would stand up in court do you?
Jenni
"Don't you know it's true what they say, Things happened for a reason,"
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Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 9:09 am: |
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I am jumping in way late here but I wanted to address the concept regarding whether or not mediums should be able to understand exactly what the spirit is saying and why can't they.
I have never held the opinion that mediums, if genuine should somehow have a better conversational understanding of what someone is saying than regular humans do in every day conversation. Why should they? We misunderstand what people mean or say when we are speaking to a live person, why should a medium be required to perfectly understand a dead person, who let's face it, is probably not conversing with them in English (or chinese or whatever language the medium speaks).
I worked as an interpreter for several years, and still occasionally freelance, and there are times when trying to interpret from one language to another, that even though I might have the generals or even when I completely understand what someone is saying, I completely screw the pooch when trying to convey it in the target language. Especially when the two languages you are attempting to speak in are completely dissimilar and there is a predominance of idioms or metaphors being used that do not convey well into the other language. And I would expect that dead-speak and medium speak are probably very different languages.
So no, the fact that a medium might give wrong information does not sway me one way or the other in determining whether a medium is genuine or not.
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3135
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:04 am: |
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Hi Ally!!!!
Am going to gird up what passes for my loins and watch this idiot again tonight!!! Derek, I believe to be a very professional charletan, but the blonde woman goes beyond belief!!
WHY cant someone organise a SENSIBLE and well conducted 'tour' of the sites with a credible medium..of which there are many......well a few!!!
Suzi |
Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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Regarding last night's train wreck, several things come to mind.
Like are they actually going to do any sites that are actually connected to Jack the Ripper in even a remote way? Where's the Jack the Ripper in their Jack the Ripper special!
Second, after yet another THOROUGHLY entertaining occurence of Acorah being possessed by some spirit, (Hee hee whoo hoo oh my god that's funny), can I just ask why in the name of the nine hells is the shrieking blonde screaming insults at the "spirit"? I mean, is that considered the best way to communicate with the not quite dead? Hey you great big cowardly prat! You suck!
My, if I were a spirit I'd run in shame from appearing on this show. If I were a real medium too.
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Jane Coram
Chief Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 607
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:31 am: |
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Hi Ally,
Your post about communication problems with mediums and whatever it is they are tapping into hit the nail of the head ....that is exactly the problem.....for clairaudients, hearing the messages is like hearing something said three floors below over a vacuum cleaner on occasions, and for clairvoyants, like wearing a really bad pair of contact lenses......the illustration of the translator was very apt.
Your last post had me in fits......where the hell is Jack? We know he was a master of the quick get away......but it would be nice if he made a token appearance even if it was only to goose the really annoying female presenter........
Still we live in hope.......I might have to forsake the pleasure of it tonight in favour of Lost and Auf Pet......never was I so grateful for a plane crash and a hut full of bricklayers........
Love Jane
xxxx
(Message edited by jcoram on October 30, 2005) |
Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 207
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
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I'm reminded of a lousy program from the 1980s, I think about the opening of Al Capone's vault in Chicago. They spent a lot of money on this show, hyped it with a massive advertisement campaign, and found virtually nothing. It was lousy because of the hype, but in my mind, it was good because nothing was found. It shows that people can be mistaken, and that legends may spring from nothing. Whenever I try to watch one of these 'haunted' programs where the tedious, dramatic music is played, and people come forward with what they thought they saw or heard, I find it all so hard to swallow. It is as if there has to be something dramatic discovererd, even if it has to be created. If I filmed someone walking through an old mausoleum it would just be a person walking through a building. If I add music, helmet-cam, put it in the evening, and recite old anecdotes and strange, horifying tales, I have a believable TV show. In fact, the only real substance is what your mind creates. Give me Capone's vault any day.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Neal Stubbings
Inspector
Username: Neal
Post Number: 210
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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I've read in a TV magazine today that the guy taking over from Accorah on Most Haunted on Tuesday is "Gordon Smith".
Although I am a very strong sceptic about Mediums, I saw a programme with Gordon Smith about six months ago on the BBC, and he was the only one out of three or four alleged mediums who got a good deal of info right about the sitters dead relatives. Unlike all other mediums, I was slightly impressed by him.
Why on earth did they not get Gordon Smith to do the Ripper weekend shows. I'm not saying that he would've been any better than Accorah, but I would at least have been interested to hear the results of anything he came up with in the programme. |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 282
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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Actually Ally the problem is actually even more problematic.
Because you are not talking about a language as we understand it.
Many of these psychics use the term, 'Clarcentient' it means that they feel or experience things...smells emotions sensations...and differant conections are differant and of diffing strengths,,,it really is nothing like a telephone conversation.
And to add to the problem the psychics themselves are often very vague about how this communication actually works.
They usually claim (if they are a psychic Medium) that the best connections come through people and that they beleive that they are talking to dead people.
However I have also witnessed these mediums giving what they claim are psychic readings to people...and these readings, to me seem very similar in character.
And if the medium dosnt know how it works who's to say how this information is come by....If the psychic is genuine and with one of the worlds leading experts perhaps he's just tapping into the expert? I've really know idea..however I dont beleive that they are cheating in the way that sites that we cant mention claim...have you ever heard them talk about Good Psychics?
Obviously Jenni I was not suggesting that you do a psychic investigation and Ignor other possibilities...corses for horses...and I've pitched a very interesting six part series to BBC 4 on mysterious manuscripts which proposes new tests on the Vineland Map, The Voynich manuscript and Maybrick Diary...I'd love to do it BUT.it doesnt mean that they will part with their money and these productions cost big time.
Living TV are one of the few channels that commision new programming and they are the only channel that really does psychic stuff so to some extent its simple economics.
My claim is just that 'psychic' Television can be made very well it doesnt have to be rubbish....
As the late great John Peel once told me 'There are only two types of music..good and bad" and thats how I feel about TV.
Actually one of the best peices of tele I've ever made was an argument between Tony Stockwell and Paul Begg arguing about the opening of the door at 13 Millers Court.
Tony Insisted that you put your hand on the door handle on the left and the door opened to the right. While Paul Begg insisted that you put your hand on the handle on the right and the door opened to the left. It got quite heated..with Paul stopping Tony a number of times and Tony refusing to change his reading.
Which of our two experts was correct?
Anyway I'll leave you to figure it out..great tele though.
Catch you later Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 283
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 1:15 pm: |
|
Come on humour me...you as well Neil....
Tony takes Paul to a position they both agree on to the original entrance of Millers Court.
Tony explains that there is a passage going back leading behind the buildings about the correct distance...and they both agree,
However they disagree how the door opens?
Does it open from left to right as Tony indicates?
or Roght to left as Paul indicates?
If i'm correct only Glenn will get the correct answer.
Yours Jeff x |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 284
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 2:13 pm: |
|
Ah ha I thought that would have you all thinking.
Come on Neil I know you know the layout to Millers Court better than anyone...Jenni, Caz, Suzi...I cant beleive you wouldnt know the answer to this...
Tony takes Paul down Dorset street.....He brings him back to the spot where he claims the original entrance would have been...Paul agrees (although you will all know that this entrance is a subject of debate.)
Tony claims that the entrance to Mary Kelly's bedroom is behind the original row of houses that would have stood there facing them...again correct.. but they are now facing the green slatted doors you will see today.
Tony says he wants to go back, about twenty or thirty paces through a narrow passage..again basically correct...at the end of the passage you turn90 degrees and face the entrance to 13 Millers Court.
THe Question Is how do you entre the room?
Does the door open from Right to left as Paul indicates? The door bagging on a small table next to the bed. Infront being a table with some shabby chairs behind which is a fire place above which hangs a copy of the fishermans widow...to the right of the fire place is a small chest of draws...to the left are two sash widows...all on which they agree.
But Tony claims the door opens from left to right?
Who is correct?
come on Neil this is easy.
Jeff |
Dan L. Hollifield
Detective Sergeant
Username: Vila
Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 2:14 pm: |
|
'Clarcentient'? Doesn't that term apply to someone who looks intelligent, but only from a distance - (Like Congress, or Parliament, or whatever) - and when put to closer examination the mental defects show?
Vila
"Extremely difficult. Virtually impossible... However, it should only take me ten minutes or so."
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Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
|
If they opened the door through the window as claimed, door would have been hinged on the right. Otherwise they couldn't have reached the locks.
|
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3142
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
|
Jeff ......If you were to have walked down Dorset Street for abt 50 odd yards on your RIGHT you would have found Millers Court (allegedly!)
Ally- If they'd reached through the window to the latch the lock would have been on the right hand side of the door as grasped through the window,therefore the hinges must have been (as seen through the window) on the left and as seen from someone with a pick axe trying to get in(!!!!!) on the Right
Blimey!!!!! this is what comes of waiting to watch Mt Accorah again tonight when the brain's saying GO TO SLEEP!
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3143
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 3:42 pm: |
|
This of course meant walking down from the Commercial St end!!!!! past the Brittania and ignoring anyone wearing a plaid coat!!!!!
Suz x |
Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1101
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 3:45 pm: |
|
Suzi,
Based on Jeff's description above, we are looking at the door from the outside trying to get in. So yes, the hinges, as seen from the outside trying to get into the room, would be on the right.
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5204
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 5:19 pm: |
|
I've always envisaged the door opening to the right of the person standing on the outside. If it opened the other way, wouldn't there be a risk of the inner door knob breaking the window?
Robert |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 285
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 5:35 pm: |
|
Ah yes yes Ally you are correct...
And the piont I was trying to make is that it boils down to INTERPRETATION.
Obviously Paul Begg was correct in his accessment. But when I replaid the footage I noticed a strange subconcious movement in
Tony's arm each time he tried to explain how the door opened to Paul. Its hard to explain but he lifted and bent his arm.
And if you take it that the door was opened by placing your hand through the broken window, opening the latch, then the door would open as Tony suggests... the hinges being as Ally says on the right..
I'm not claiming that this is any marraculus phenomina..perhaps Tony simply got it wrong.
Perhaps I'm just making a way of making the information fit..but from a piont of veiw they were both correct.
A broken window plain in a standard documentary is of little importance and yet in this instance it co8ld become an interesting piont for discussion if handled correctly.
Actually the best stuff by far had nothing to do with the Ripper but the victims themselves
All i'm saying that random information looked at and research properly can make for interesting discussion and television.
It just depends how you do it.
If your objective is to give the veiwer a clear insite into what Millers Court Actually looked like then its a great way into the discussion...and a Medium can give you things that history books simply cant...smell, taste, emotions.
Personally I never bought alot of Tony's information about the Ripper..Some was just to specific and unbeleivable...but I thought some aspects of the reading quite facinating, tantilizing glimses about Kelly and her habits...Tony didnt really paint a picture of a good girl who's been much miss understood.
At the end of the day its just stuff...Its what you do with it that counts.
Jeff
|
Neal Stubbings
Inspector
Username: Neal
Post Number: 212
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 5:54 pm: |
|
Jeff,
I won't comment on this site about anything to do with the medium you mention and Paul Begg, as I no longer have the video of them that you sent me (it got trashed in my video machine) or the notes I made from it (that were trashed when I thought I wouldn't need them anymore). All that I have now is the video tape of the medium with Catherine Eddowes descendant.
Jeff, maybe you could provide a transcript of the whole of the reading with Paul Begg on this site, then people can judge for themselves? Or how about showing the video to the Whitechapel Society (or Cloak and dagger club?) who I think meet every few months or so? |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 286
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 6:21 pm: |
|
Hi Neil
I'm afraid all I have is the master of the promo I created to try and pitch the programme...I'm no longer with that company...however I am more than happy to send you a copy of what I have.
All that I created at the end of the day was the one reading with yourself and two days with Paul Begg. Nobody involved ever received any payment...it was understood that we were trying for a comission...which eventually didnt happen...
However I still beleive in the project as it was conceived and will keep trying to get the project off the ground to those who will listen...
I did eventually get a project off the ground based on the idea, which you can watch next week on Living TV...however it was on Guy Fawles not the Ripper and with Derek rather than Tony.
I'm afraid I must be off, I start a new job in Norwich tomorrow so commuting is going to be a bugger..your welcome to a copy of the promo...The original masters still belong to Craig and I'm afraid that I do not have transcripts...a longer version was edited but was never plaid out of Avid. If it still exists I'm not certain...probably not...it was a while ago now.
I'd still love to give it a proper go however, It just needed lots more time and work, I wouldnt say so if I didnt think it could have been great..
I know you were disappionted with the reading but I thought it had its moments...particularly the bit about Janice grandfathers underpants being used for dusters...weird,
Good night all.
Jeff
|
Alan Hunt
Sergeant
Username: Mews
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 7:37 pm: |
|
All
Ive just watched part 3 of the most haunted live and i must say what a load of B******S!
firstly if there promoting this show as most haunted -jack the ripper! what has the location of tonights show got to do with it! the clink prison is on the South Bank in Southwark, not the east end. And all through the show no one deemed to say that it was in southwark and not in the centre of the east end as advertised! do they think that no one will discover the area it in and queery why?
So far on all three programmes we have only had a mention of walter drew and the commercial street police station because the pub was opposite and a brief mention by a phone in viewer of a man in a long cloak and top hat on Tower Bridge!
whatever the pros and cons of mediums and seances you must admit that using the name of the ripper and ommiting any mention of the murders in its contents is very much a subject for the trade descriptiond Act!
lets hope the last night has at least a mention!!
yours
Alan |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1508
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 3:28 am: |
|
Hi,
I have found the Most haunted programmes to date very frustrating it was billed as The Hunt for Jack' which so far has eluded any quest.
But lets be honest do we really expect the vast crew of the investigations complete with sound engineers camera crew etc parading around The streets of whitechapel visiting sites such as Brady street ,Mitre square etc with hundreds of curious public following there every move and of course the normal hecklers one always expects.
The only place they could conduct any seance would be inside a building that was relevant like to a degree the city darts, or by authorized permisssion to the mortuary areas of the London Hospital.
I Have a feeling guys we are about to be conned.
Richard. |
Alabama Man
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 11:38 am: |
|
It was interesting to see that the English/British/whatever viewing public is as stupid and vapid as the one here in the good ol' USA. Makes me feel a little less like Europeans are sophisticated older cousins. |
L. A. Muir
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 9:25 pm: |
|
Well, I learned something, at least. I learned that Derek cannot do simple mathmatics when under pressure -- er, I mean, when possessed by evil spirits.
"How old are you?"
'I'm dead!'
"How old were you when you died?" "When were you born?" "How old would you be now?"
Lots of swearing & incoherent yelling. Hmmm...
|
nicole bunel
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:57 pm: |
|
this is the bestmost haunted live!  |
scott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 12:34 pm: |
|
MOST HAUNTED IS REAL EVERY1 IN THE UK BELIEVES IT END OF! |
Piper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 3:36 pm: |
|
Asking a quick question on this weekends shows, I noticed that they have their webcams set up on Tower Bridge tonight....Have they, or me, got crossed wires? Everywhere that I've read about this case makes no mention of the bridge at all and if they have it's only been there as a historical refference point. Do they know something I dont? |
Karnak the Flatulent
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 2:17 pm: |
|
I am feeling a presence, the spirits of hundred of beings out there who wonder what the ***expletive deleted*** any of this has to do with the Whitechapel Murders. I predict that I will go on to found the Clairvouyant Historians Union of Metropolitan Phoenix!
Karnak the Flatulent
Founder and Future President of
C.H.U.M.P. |
|
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