| Author |
Message |
    
Alan Hunt
Police Constable
Username: Mews
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 3:24 pm: | 
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Hallo All
for everyone in the uk do they know that this years most haunted live halloween show on livingtv is Jack the Ripper?
its on from the28th to the 31st october and is Derej Accorah's last live appearence on the show "which means tickets have already sold out! but we could go to the area on the nights to see whar sort of thing they get up to and what drivle they will spout about the murders. I remember they did a programme from London Dungeon and Accorah's "spirit guide" told him there were two murderers, one was tried at st Georges Hall Liverpool and a murder took place 500 yards from the dungeon, neraly 2 miles grom Whitechapel! lets all watch and laugh!!! |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3072
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 3:44 am: |
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Hi Alan
Sounds a MUST See.Mind you definately a behind the sofa job if Mr Derek's down to his usual standard!!!
What do you mean last 'live' performance????? was he EVER alive?
Suzi |
Mandy Melbourne
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 6:19 am: |
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Ripper’s legacy
Two victims of Jack the ripper have returned to London’s East End to remind the capital city of its most celebrated unsolved crimes.
‘Polly Nicholls, a 42 year-old prostitute, was the first of the cruel butcher’s six victims, found with her throat and stomach cut on August 31, 1888. She has been seen since, a huddled pathetic figure, glowing eerily in the gutter of Durwood Street, Whitechapel, where her body was discovered.
Harrowing screams heard in Hansbury Street, in nearby Spitalfields, are said to be those of Jack’s victims, 47 year-old Annie Chapman. |
MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 2:24 pm: |
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Sorry MM, but where are you quoting that tosh from exactly ? |
Neal Stubbings
Inspector
Username: Neal
Post Number: 207
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 3:15 pm: |
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People shouldn't get carried away with this. Almost two years ago I took along a descendant of Catherine Eddowes to record a sitting with a well known medium collegue of Accorah's.
I came away feeling very disappointed and believed that the medium had read the books on the subject beforehand despite claiming otherwise.
When this particular medium wrote an autobiography sometime afterwards he included a piece about the sitting but left out the bits that weren't correct.
And the TV company concerned obviously dropped the idea of ever showing the sitting.
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Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 163
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
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Neal,
It's probably because mediums are all fake. Good actors, however.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 816
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 7:10 pm: |
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Neal - that's my general opinion.
MTR - The badly spelt and inaccurate rubbish above (I hope the poster was quoting from a poor TV Guide and not making such low-grade errors themselves!) both originate from Elliot O'Donnell. Apparently the huddled form of Polly was seen as early as 1895, and the supposed Hanbury Street screams are almost contemporary with the crimes, beginning in October of 1888. Polly is reputedly still seen (though there has never been a named witness) and Annie is supposedly the source of many hauntings not only on the site of #29, but also at The Ten Bells and even Windsor Barracks! However, most of O'Donnell's writings have nothing to back them up.
Baron - I happen to believe Mediums have the gift of ESP (which is known to exist in other realms of the animal kingdom) but I do not believe in contacting the dead.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 169
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 7:29 pm: |
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Philip,
I think ESP is a possibility, but a medium is someone who communicates with the dead, isn't it? It's an intermediary. Am I mistaken on this? I thought someone who has ESP was a clairvoyant. By the way, I think it is closer to an instinct than some sort of mental power, something that is part of a person, but not developable.
I don't know really.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Steve Swift
Sergeant
Username: Swift
Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 9:32 pm: |
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Yeah - but we'll all be watching just in case right? ;)
Given a choice would you be Monty Burns and have the money or would you be Homer Simpson & have Marges love?
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 817
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 3:29 am: |
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Steve - I shan't be watching. No way. Besides, I will be too busy doing ghost walks all week to have the time.
Baron - I'm not saying that the terms are confused. I'm saying that 'mediumship' in the true sense of communing with the dead is not something in which I believe. My personal knowledge makes me think that all they are doing is reading the mind of someone in the vicinity if they are anything even approaching genuine. I'm not saying as a result they are knowingly fraudulent; they could well be receiving the information with the understanding it is indeed coming from someone dead, but ESP is more than a possibility. If it exists elsewhere in the animal kingdom and 90% of the workings of the brain (close to 100% with some individuals) are still closed to us, then The Sixth Sense is a strong contender.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 248
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 8:16 am: |
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Hi Neil
I wish i could confirm your conspiracy theory but the basic truth is that the programme simply didn't get commissioned. The fact is that for every fifty or so idea's you put forward only a few get past the commisioning editor, thats just TV for you.
Obviously it is a shame that the Ripper commision went to Antix. If it had of come to me I can assure you all you would have had a Ripper night to remember...best reconstruction ever created. However it didn't and I wont pertend I was somewhat upset given the time and energy...and the encial responces I was given to my pilot.
For what its worth I am still trying to sell an idea based on the models that were created for that pilot. But something a bit more serious with Begg at the helm..
The problem with psychic's is that if they come up with information that we can confirm then that information is always open to the argument that the psychic could have looked that info up or read about it...if they come up with information that we cant confirm then it is dismissed as tosh. Its a no win situation.
At best all a psychic can really do is give you an interesting and novel way of getting into a good story, which is hopefully more interesting than David Sharky talking down his nose at the audience.
For anyone interest in how it could be done then watch Derek Acorahs Quest of Guy Fawkes the following Saturday November the 5th.
I assure you all it can be done properly...just lament that the ripper commision didnt come my way it could have been as good as this....O well.
Anyway Neil the footage is still there and i would love to get it out in the public domain, these things can sometime take years to find the right platform, which I will eventually find.
Yours Jeff
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Steve Swift
Sergeant
Username: Swift
Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 9:12 am: |
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You know what I think would sell? Everyone is familiar with the Barlow & Watt programme yes? remember how popular that was?
How about using the Crimewatch UK format? I think you would have a very good chance of selling that to a TV company.
Given a choice would you be Monty Burns and have the money or would you be Homer Simpson & have Marges love?
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 249
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Ah Barlow and Watts
Yes its a format that could be very easily updated. And with modern editing and effects something that could be made absolutely brilliant. For my pilot I rebuilt Millers Court in 3D studio max and it looked great. I was hoping to use Andy Aliffe to get the re-con spot on.
However the biggest problem is that commissioning editors want shows that solve who Jack was...even Barlow and Watts suffered from that...trying to convince people that a show dealling with the victims and the facts about the murders is vary difficult. But for my money I'd have Glenn and Inaki aguing about Tabram and Chris Smith and Dan Norder at twenty paces fighting it out about Annie Chapmans time of death.
Its convincing the commisioning editors that it will sell....thats why the psychic angal can work..they already have an audiance..the biggest veiwing figures on non terristrial TV.
And at the end of the day TV is about veiwing figures and Advertisers.
After three years of work you can understand why it becomes disheartening...you dont get paid for development ideas and they're very time consuming.
I just would have made a better job than 'Antics' will because I care about the subject.
I also beleive Derek Acorah would have prefered to work on this with me.
Hopefully some of you will watch my Guy Fawkes recon on the 5th and see what I mean.
How about Robbie Coltrain and David Jason?
Jeff |
Steve Swift
Sergeant
Username: Swift
Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 6:54 pm: |
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Hey Jeff 
What I meant was, using a popular fictional TV programme as a backdrop(Z-Cars) was very popular.
If you use the Crimewatch UK format then you wouldnt actually have to show who Jack was and you could present all your facts.
Bill Shankly to a Liverpool fan:
"Where are you from?"
"I'm a Liverpool fan from London."
"Well laddie . . . . What's it like to be in heaven?"
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 818
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 8:04 pm: |
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"And police would like to talk to this man, believed to be responsible for a series of horrific attacks on women in the East End of London. In our reconstruction, the victims are played by actresses but we use the real witnesses..." etc etc etc.
I would like to see CCTV footage of JTR entering Millers Court.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 250
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 5:47 am: |
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As I gather it the BBC are currently working on a big budget Jack the Ripper story starring Shane Ritchie....as another opium eddicted Abberline.
Perhaps I've just worked in tele to long and become to cinical but TV commissioners are not interested in the facts their interested in veiwing figures.
The Ripper myths suit their purposes because it sells.
If you relied on TV for your information I'm afraid James Maybrick and Walter Sickert would be your main suspects. I'm surprised they havnt made Uncle Jack yet.
Jeff |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 819
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 7:05 am: |
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Jeff - I would have said that Maybrick and Sickert WERE the main suspects, in spite of the truth. Did you see Discovery's THE TRIAL OF JACK THE RIPPER?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 251
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
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I'm afraid I did not. Although I'd obviously would have loved to.
In the Diary the writer wrote 'Tin match box emptie' the real ripper, if he was vaguely interested would have known the match box contained cotton wool and was obviously 'Not' emptie.
As for Walter Sickert ...please.
The point I was trying to make is that so many programmes are based on 'who was Jack the Ripper'. And the fact is that he is probably 'person unknown'.
I'd like to do a programme dealing with the victims and the crimes and some of the mysteries surrounding those crimes useing modern re-construction techniques.
I got involved in 'psychic' programmes as they have a ready made audience and give you a chance to explore the facts, even if you dont agree with the psychic. Infact a healthy amount of sceptisisum actual makes for a better programme.
Having spent the last three years pitching the Ripper story, I was obviously a little miffed that the comission went to another company. Especially when I'd spent some time talking to Derek and I know he loved my ideas and would rather have had someone on board who knows a little about the case. I've just completed the first of a new series for him and this would have been great...but hay ho.
Know doubt this thread will be hot over next weekend, and as I consider Derek a personal freind I will be defending what he does. However thats not to say that I think Most Haunted possible of doing it justice.
Dereks new series 'Quest for' and Ghost Towns are simply going to be much better and its a shame it wasn't left to be done properly....if this sounds a little like sour 'grape storks' it probably is...
However I will stand by my opinion that Derek Acorah and Tony Stockwell are very genuine in what they beleive and do. There certainly has never been any cheating or information supplied on my watch.
They just get what they get..sometimes good sometimes bad.
The piont is that there programmes still only as good as the producer.
Anyway I'll be digging in my position as this is bound to be controversial.
Jeff
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3079
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 11:07 am: |
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Yeah still going to worth a watch though all RUBBISH has to be watched at the end of the day doesn't it...........in the absence of anything better to do...........God that oven needs cleaning!!!!!
LOL
Suzi
Never trust a man,who if left alone in a room with a tea-cosy would be able to resist the temptation of trying it on!
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Neal Stubbings
Inspector
Username: Neal
Post Number: 208
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 12:49 pm: |
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Hi Jeff,
I do wish you well and anyone else who tries to make programmes about the facts of the case, but you knew my thoughts about mediums so what I wrote above is in line with that. I just think it's time that there was a programme or series that concentrates on the facts without the need for mediums, whether they believe in what they do or otherwise?
I can't imagine why any commissioners can't see the benefit of doing a factual programme for once, or one searching for the facts like Tony Robinson's on Channel 4 whether history related or even about Brown's DaVinci Code.
In the same way it's very strange as to why there hasn't been a memorial to the victims put up in Spitalfields to date. I guess councils would be willing to do so if someone else paid for it?
Jeff, me believe in conspiracies?
I believe Oswald killed Kennedy, I believe Diana died because of a drunk, I believe Mary Jane Kelly, Catherine Eddowes etc.. were killed by an ordinary man living in the area.
Conspiracies not my thing!
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MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 7:17 pm: |
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Is it me or are there two threads about this now ?
Anyway, for Jeff and any other defenders of Derek, you'd do well to spend some time at this link.
Mike. |
Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 179
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 8:59 pm: |
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Philip,
I believe I read that you were a ghost hunter of sorts. Is that correct? Have you actually, without a doubt, seen a ghost, y'know kind of see-through, vague human shape, that kind of thing. I'm just curious as I have never seen anything. I've been scared out of my wits by noises and such, but have never seen anything but a bit of ectoplasm, and that may have been Phlegm for all I know.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4182
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 9:19 pm: |
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I totally agree with Jeff on this issue; as for myself I have for many years worked closely with psychic mediums (and I am afraid I can not agree on Philip's views here), and am a personal friend with at least two prominent ones. And they are certainly not con artists.
I can't tell others what to believe; everyone has to to try it for themselves and make their own judgements, but I have personally received evidence that the mediums that are genuine, indeed have developed their senses to the extent that it works. There is no way they could have received any information beforehand or through cold or warm reading, unless they are mind readers (which is one theory skeptics have proposed, strangely enough).
I have long since stopped discussing the issue with extreme skeptics with either an academic or a highly personal agenda, since the subject is too sensitive but mostly because it is totally pointless. Trying to get them to see the other side is a hopeless efforts because they are either too afraid or narrow-minded, and it is also impossible for them to get me to accept their views since I have received the personal evidence I need.
That being said, there are a lot of frauds out there and it shall be noted that during these last ten years the business of expensive 'training courses' has boomed and become a money-spinning spectacle. Bogus mediums existed already in Victorian times and I would expect them to be many more today, not least thanks to mass media and the Internet.
Therefore the believer's most important tool is just scepticism, something that the extreme sceptics never seem to get, no matter how many times you tell them, that just because you believe in some mediums doesn't mean that you believe ALL of them or ALL ghost stories. Just like all psychic mediums aren't frauds just because some of them happen to be just that.
I must admit, and I do hope that Jeff takes no offense by this, that I have big problems with Derec Acurah. If he is a genuine medium, he should know better than to involve himself in the garbage that Most Haunted produces. No genuine medium accepts to work under such ridiculous conditions, with round-the-table seances and ouija board exercises and spririts that possesses the medium like in a scene from the Excorcist. It ruins it for all of us who takes mediumship seriously, not to mention that it even further destroys the credibility of those in the field. I know that medium circuits in Scandinavia does not take him kindly, and in general the English 'school' - which has a tendency to in an over-dramatic way focus on negative energies and bad spirits that tries to hurt the ones that is subjected to the hauntings - is seen with a large portion of scepticism and dislike.
But again, I do not know Derek Acurah personally - I just regret his bad decisions and judgement. All I can say is that Most Haunted is a ridiculous spectacle and it is all too obvious that it is staged for the cameras and nothing else, regardless if Derek is genuine or not. It certainly hasn't healthy skepticism on the program.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on October 23, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 820
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:52 am: |
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This thread is losing my interest very quickly, unfortunately! I really - genuinely - find these sorts of arguements VERY BORING.
In short - Jeff, I know people who have worked professionally with Acorah quite recently and it is curious that their views on him are the exact opposite of yours. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. He's a rich and successful businessman so he got what he always wanted.
Mike - I'm not a ghost-hunter 'of sorts'. I sit on the Council of The Ghost Club and have been involved in investigations all over the country (the real thing, not using ouija boards and running through cellars screaming like some supposed things I could mention...)
I have only once seen a genuine apparition but telling the story drives me mad. It's a long account and I am asked to tell it several times every week, so forgive me if I just point you to this link :
http://www.iopr.org.uk/15111/15138.html?
You will need to scroll down to THE WOMAN AT THE WINDOW to get to my account.
Glenn - I have not said all mediums are frauds. I do not believe in mediumship; there is a difference. If you look above you'll see it is my opinion that some of them are mind-readers whether knowingly or otherwise.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 35
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 7:47 am: |
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Regarding Derek Acorah and the 'Bad Psychics' link, the page I pointed at does little to lambast DA and the MH programme: they do it themselves admirably. There are downloads to videos of the broadcast and unbroadcast versions of a piece which says alot about the veracity ot the programme (and DA).
There's also a piece on the same site where information was 'planted' on DA (intentionally said within earshot of him prior to broadcast) and, no surprises, he repeated it during recording.
Also, IIRC, most footage is recorded full colour in good light and given the daft green cast in the edit suite. Just plain silly.
Mike. |
healthy_sceptic
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:02 pm: |
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If mediums were really endowed with psychic powers, couldn't they tell us who killed Amanda Dowler, Genette Tate etc? Sam? Oh Saaaam? Where are you my precious spirit guide?..... |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 253
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 8:42 am: |
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Glenn my old mucker
I must admit that I was surprised to find you as an alli, but i do not know why, you are always full of surprises. And once again I find myself agreeing with you.
I got into this whole 'psychic' thing purely by accident a few years ago. I must admit I was rather sceptical and to some extent I still am.
Psychics are a bit like chinsee food...no matter how much you eat it never fills you up and you always want more.
As Most Haunted is doing a weekend special next week on Jack the Ripper, I guess this thread is going to be relivant for a while, and obviously as the following week is going to be a special on Guy Fawkes and I've spent the last three months putting it together I cant really put my head in the sand to critisism, which is enevitably going to happen.
(Your all going to have to forgive me about my spelling which does rather get irratic when I get excited)
Firstly Philip you must understand that these programmes are about entertainment and I have absolutely no intention of defending 'Most Haunted.' I can only speak from my own experiences and for programmes I was responcible for making.
I must admit that you have me at a disadvantage, in that I have never experience any 'ghostly' happenings. Although I have experienced cameras turning off at odd moments, which could just be explained away by mathamatical co-incidence.
I have spent the last three years going to haunted locations, house clearances, dark cellars and seances...not a sausage. However people that I have no reason to doubt...in particular one very cynical sound man..have claim to have witnessed things.
More interesting from my piont of veiw was a reading I arranged throw these boards with Stephen Sloman. His mother Hannah Tailford was a victim of jack the Stripper.
Tony Stockwell had no Idea who stephen was or why he had come to meet him...infact the only person who new everything about the case was myself...information about the case is at best thin on the ground. Anyway to cut a long story short Tony give Stephen a reading about a murdered woman who had been found in the Thames, who had worked as a prostitute and come from the New Castle area. More interestingly Tony stated Hannah had had four children all of whom had been adopted. From my research I had a suspician that Stephen had a sister but the four children was completely new information.
Following that reading I went to the London corporation archives where I managed to get hold of Hannah's autopsy report. The document had obviously never been opened I was the first to read it in fourty years.
From this I managed to confirm that Stephen was indeed one of four and trace their birth certificates. To my knowledge he is still trying to trace them. We did how ever manage to get him in touch with other family members in New Castle who confirmed that Tony had gotten other information correct including the name of her Grand Mother.
I have no explination how Tony managed this...it could of corse have been co-insidence those fans of Douglas Adams will be familiar with these theories.
Some of you have suggested that mediums do some sort of body language reading or even mind reading (which would be remarkable in it self) and I have some sympathy for this, Mediums deffinately work better with people about.
I have conducted some experiments in which mediums work blind behind closed walls while giving reading to someone in another room and their hit rate while good at first soon curves off. However the CIA proved that remote veiwing can work on even inanimate subjects and over great distances.
What it confirms is that a Medium or Psychic can be used to reduce the odd's but if you want them to find a missing ring or predict the National, foreget it. Results are simply hit and miss going from amazingly accurate to total miss.
I have no explination for the information Tony supplied me with, I do know that how good these mediums are seems to vary alot with no reason. Good days bad days...its completely random.
When you edit a programme you obviously put in the best bits not the stuff where they get nothing....would you want to watch a football match with the ball out of play or being kicked into the side net?
I intend to remain open minded however at best all a medium can really do is give you a interesting way into a story, actaul provable stories like the Hannah Tailford one, are few and far between.
Derek does not make 'Most Haunted' he turns up does his bit and leaves. He has a huge following of people who he has built up over the years many of these are loyal because he has given them readings which they feel have come true.
If you ever get a chance to spend an evening over a pint with Derek Acorah you will find him one of the most charming and interesting people you will ever meet ,not at all like his television persona. At the end of the day I have no reason to doubt that he is genuine in his beleif in what he does. Both Derek and tony beleive that they are talking to dead people.
Whether I beleive that is another matter but until someone can prove to me otherwise I will continue to be open minded. |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 255
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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Dear MTR
I can assure you that all the night vision filming done on Derek Acorahs Quest for Guy Fawkes was shot at night...often in the cold and pouring rain...whats more I have the cold to prove it...If you wish to come around and check the master tapes you are more than welcome.
In the mean time if you wish to discredit Derek your going to have to do alot better than a few sad postings on BAD PSYCHIC...when are you going to get it into your head that these people are sad **** who will go to any length to prove their lies.
I can not speak for 'most haunted' but all the night vission I have filmed with Derek is genuine.
Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 256
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:25 am: |
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I have just received advice that I have upset the people at BAD PSYCHIC website and have been asked to refrain from making any comments about them which I have agreed to do. Not that I necessarily agree with curtailing freedom of speach but certainly out of respect for casebook I will say nomore about them...topic rests.
Yours Jeff |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2221
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:42 am: |
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Hi Jeff,
the match box contained cotton wool and was obviously 'Not' emptie.
Where does it say cotton wool?
I thought it was reported in a newspaper as just 'cotton', which I took to mean cotton thread, used for mending or darning. Was cotton wool, as we know it today, even available in 1888?
In any case, Mitre Square was very dark and Kate's tin match box was certainly empty of matches, which presumably inspired the diarist's "damn it". And the immediate concerns seem to have been to remove a piece of her apron and carefully nick her eyelids, not to sew the apron up with thread or remove her eye make-up with a cotton wool ball. 
In theory, one should be capable of criticising the diarist's work without introducing a single error of one's own. Yet I have seen this happening time after time, from almost every poster who has ever tried.
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on October 24, 2005) |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:54 am: |
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Speaking of Bad Psychics, they have a pretty interesting interview with Jason Hawes from Ghosthunters. It's a show called Audio Martini. I like Hawes because he debunks whenever he can; he believes in ghosts but thinks a lot of "evidence" is crap. Show him an orb photograph and he'll roll his eyes--"Dust! This is dust!"
Dave |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 257
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:58 am: |
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Sorry Caz
Did I say cotton wool. Must have had some stuck between the ears.
You are of course correct 'cotton'.
I should have learned by now to tread very carefullly in Maybrick territory.
Look likes its a whole afternoon full of humble pie...still it does us all good at times.
Yours Jeff |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 821
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
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Hi Jeff.
Whilst still holding my own views largely based on knowledge, research and experience over the years I also respect yours in spite of only agreeing with about half of what you say (better than none!).
I'm just posting this to say that though it is obvious my views are mostly on the side of the debunkers, I personally wish to make clear my disapproval of your being censored. In my eyes, it has done said site no good at all and I am disappointed with their stance. Sounds like a case of pot and kettle to me.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 258
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
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Hi Phil
Life would be very boring if we all agreed on everything but let me make it clear what I am saying or rather what I'm not saying.
Firstly all any of us can know is what we know by our own experiences.
I am not saying I beleive that the psychics I am working with are dioing what they claim. Just that I beleive that they beleive what they are doing and that they are genuine in that beleif.
I have made it clear that I do not know how they do what they do.
I can tell you that on the programmes that I have produced I suppplied no information and everything you get actually happened.
Could they have been up all night researching on the internet...again this is possible but I never had any evidence of this...in many incedences it would have been very difficult as the psychics were often unaware of the story or location they were going to. In the case of Psychic Detective I know as a matter of fact that Tony had no idea who was coming to see him or why...and in the case of the Hannah tailford reading I can show you the reading and the birth certificates.
At no piont in any of my productions have I ever cheated by adding sound effects or trying to miss lead an audience.
These programmes are entertainment and I do the best job possible to make these programmes interesting informative and exciting to watch. I take great care to ensure the facts and historical context are correct.
At the end of the day I leave it up the audience to decide whether they beleive or not. Hopefully I can reach a wide audeince and get them interested in subjects I am interested about. But each person has to make up their own mind about the psychics.
It is unlikely that Derek will turn the world of Ripperology on its head this weekend, however if he gets people thinking and talking about the subject and looking at it in a new way perhaps that will be good. Most of us got interested in the subject somewhere and wanted to find out more.
Obviously with my interest in the Ripper I have talk with many many psychics about the subject and each has come to their own conclusions...some parts of which I have taken on board other parts I have dismissed.
What i have never done is accuse people of being a fraud because I simply didn't agree with them.
As far as the Ripper is concerned I'm always learning, picking up new information i have over looked and to this end I have found such readings very useful.
I have no idea whether or not there is life after death. I do however know that I have some journalistic integrity and that no programme I have produced has intensionally misslead its audience. Perhaps you can understand why I become diffensive when poeple suggest that I have.
Yours Jeff
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Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 136
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 2:49 pm: |
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Hello Jeff,
Will look forward to the programme.
I like you have an open mind on all theories re JTR whatever they are, not like others who continually de-bunk everyone else without putting up any logical idea of their own. If it is not written in tablets of stone, then it cannot be believed. Well the ten commandments were written in tablets of stone by bolts of lightning from the sky. The laws of mankind are based on these tablets of stone, yet no-one has ever seen them yet millions and millions believe they existed or still exist.
The facts are poor unfortunate women were murdered that Autumn of 1888 and no one will ever know who was responsible, but all should still be allowed to air their thoughts on JTR whether it was a conspiracy of sorts, and remember it only takes two people to form a conspiracy, or a single madman or madwomwan with a grudge against unfortunates.
Andy P.
PS. By the way did you enjoy our book? |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:18 pm: |
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Hi,
Tonque in cheek here but If i was the producer of these programmes throughout Halloween , I would spend a long period if possible at the nearest spot to Millers court and have a woman sing 'Only A violet' softly and see if a presence could be felt , for I would suggest that if the spirit of Kelly was present, it would be be a enticement for her to come through.
I know that sounds ludricous but it would if nothing else make chilling television.
Richard. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3088
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:45 pm: |
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Richard
MOST definately!!!!!!
Anyway its got to worth a watch.with a little less water than usual maybe????? What time does it start again Alan???
Suzi
Never trust a man,who if left alone in a room with a tea-cosy would be able to resist the temptation to try it on!
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Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1075
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:46 pm: |
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Wait a minute! Hold the phone..
Jeff,
Are you serious? The people at bad psychics who make a living out of calling other people frauds are getting pissy because you said naughty things about them? Are you honest to god, drop dead serious?
Because while I personally think Derek A. is the biggest cheezy phony that ever fell down the spiritualist fraud highway, and I completely disagree with your assessment that bad psychics are a bunch of whatever you said; if they are that hypocritical, I am going to have to start bashing them well and proper at every given opportunity.
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3089
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 5:39 pm: |
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Ally!!!!!
I agree!!! The man's beyond description!!!!!
Going to be a laugh though!!! will vid it and send it to you eh so we can EAT HIM!
Love
Suzi x 
Never trust a man,who if left alone in a room with a tea-cosy would be able to resist the temptation to try it on!
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Alan Hunt
Sergeant
Username: Mews
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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all
will it be as dodgy as the "Mary loves dick" bit?
Alan |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 822
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 6:52 pm: |
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Well I've sung 'Only A Violet' on the spot of #13 over 200 times and I've never felt anything - though that damned black cat keeps appearing (yes, REALLY!)
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5172
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 7:08 pm: |
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So that's what that noise was - I thought it was the cat.
Robert |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 259
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 8:13 pm: |
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Ah ha! so you do all still have some balls in you.
Fab to here from you Andy and yes I have your book infront of me now..very clear and one of the best, particularly the stuff on William Gulls funeral. The Ripper story does indeed have many strange paths, and we'd all do well to walk them carefully.
For those wishing to seek out a good read it is called 'The Jack the Ripper whitechappel murders by Kevin O'Donnell and I can highly recommend you read this publication. If I can make a programme as clear and concise as this I would be happy. Many thanks again.
As for the rest of you...I am no longer afraid of Mr Tiddles, and neither is my wife.
Obviously I stand by my thoughts that the website that can not be mentioned is full of spiffing, die hard, bringers of the truth... intent on free speech and the American way... to debunk brain washed paranoral freeks like my self....it is understandable. I do chastise my wicked imoral thoughts and uphold the laws of the Spanish inquesition. (not that I expected the Spanish inquesition). They do speek like Francis of Ascece through the words of Margret Thatcher.
Oh thank you oh great ones for bringing us truth and enlightenment...Thank you all for your imparcial journalism and your maticulus attention to detail...and pointing out the errors of our ways, before threatening us...you must really sleep well at night..
there... that should avoid prosicution.
As for the rest of you...don your armour and prepare for battle. The game is afoot. Should I be here in the morning, that is uncertain, but i shall stand for what I beleive. And I shall champion open thought and expression.
The burden of proof will be on you...and that you will discover is harder than it seems..
I should know I've been there... Perhaps to long.
Windmills Windmills..
(Perhaps I do need that holiday.)
Jeff
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Christian Jaud
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 130
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 3:23 am: |
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Hi,
I really don't want to get involved here, but one thing bugs me:
How do those who call the people at BadPsychics liars explain the Video sequences (specially the second one) shown at
http://www.jonscelebworld.com/BadPsychics/Editorials/MostHaunted/MaryLovesDick.html ?
I've never seen the show, it's not on German TV. Also it was the first time I've noticed this "BadPsychics" webpage.
So I won't judge then. But this above is a serious question.
Thanks
Christian
(Message edited by chrisjd on October 25, 2005) |
MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:11 am: |
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Along with the now-infamous Mary Loves Dick fiasco, I'd also recommend people read the Derek Acorah/Robbie Williams story along with the review of Most Haunted Live 10.
How can any rational person remain uncynical about this show ? Personally, I think that all psychics, astrologers, mediums and fortune-tellers of any kind should be banned from making television appearances.
If it were possible for me to so, I'd personally go after the lot of 'em under whatever provisions were available under UK law ("Psychic Practitioners (Regulation) Bill" & "Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951" ???) and do everything I could to get them off our TV screens.
Mike. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2224
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:25 am: |
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Hi All,
If all profits from such shows or appearances had, by law, to be donated to charity, I wonder if that would concentrate the mind a bit?
Love,
Caz
X |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 260
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:36 am: |
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Well Apparently Mike
We can not have a sensible conversation because your, oh so fare and open minded bed fellows, have threatened to sue this site if we do.
Yet it is apparently oK for you to make all soughts of ridiculus claims and accuse people that you have never met or no nothing about ,of fraud.
All you can do is quote a site that we have been ban from mentioning...can you come up with nothing better than this?
Christian I would defend myself if I could but I can not...
I however may not agree with you but I will defend with my life your right to say it...
Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 261
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:47 am: |
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Well actually caz
I have a mortgage to pay and a daughter to buy christmas presents for, is that so differant from you?
What is broadcast...as with most TV is entertainment. My shows are that.
However they are also historically acurate and informative. If you can find one peice of incorrect information contained in one of my programmes then I will eat my words.
Which I think you know I am willing to do.
Just making wild and unsubstantuated claims based on predudiice does not make for healthy and informed discussion.
Jeff |
Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1077
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:50 am: |
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Jeff, you can defend yourself, just don't talk about BP. Talk about Most Haunted which is what this thread is about. For instance,
The mary loves dick scene that is readily available on several websites.
Filmed in broad daylight, clearly lit, no night vision at all. Shown on TV with a green tint wash.
How do you explain that?
Pre-filmed, not live, so how did the Shrieking Blonde know that the experts were having a fit over the so-called accuracy of his "reading"?
How do you explain that.
One does not have to have met the people on the show to look at this and say, they faked it.
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MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:56 am: |
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Who exactly has threatened to sue the Casebook owner for what is simply a discussion about Most Haunted ? I'm still baffled by that. And who has "banned" you, I or anyone else from talking about a website ? And how is that possible ? If you check the links in my last post, I have not just quoted the Bad Psychics site. I could have picked plenty of others besides. The fact is these people have conducted extensive research into Most Haunted and I haven't but so what ?
Of course we can have a conversation about this; maybe we should create accounts on the Bad Psychics forums and discuss it there ?
Mike. |
