Maybrick as the Ripper

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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through August 07, 2003 Caroline Anne Morris 25  1  8-07-03  12:42 pm Archive through January 15, 2004 Anthony Dee 25  1  1-15-04  9:56 am Archive through January 20, 2004 Alex Chisholm 25  1  1-20-04  10:48 pm Archive through January 23, 2004 John V. Omlor 25  1  1-23-04  7:23 am Archive through January 26, 2004 Chris Phillips 25  1  1-26-04  1:30 pm Archive through January 27, 2004 John V. Omlor 25  1  1-27-04  10:30 pm Archive through January 29, 2004 Jim DiPalma 25  1  1-29-04  11:46 pm Archive through February 03, 2004 John V. Omlor 25  1  2-03-04  6:15 pm Archive through February 06, 2004 R.J. Palmer 25  1  2-06-04  7:41 pm Archive through February 10, 2004 Alan Sharp 25  1  2-10-04  5:48 am Archive through February 13, 2004 John V. Omlor 25  1  2-13-04  10:00 am Archive through February 17, 2004 Caroline Anne Morris 25  1  2-17-04  1:21 pm Archive through July 02, 2004 Dee 50  1  7-02-04  1:05 pm Archive through July 13, 2004 Caroline Anne Morris 50  1  7-13-04  4:17 am Archive through July 20, 2004 John V. Omlor 50  1  7-20-04  10:57 am Archive through July 30, 2004 John V. Omlor 50  1  7-30-04  10:28 am Archive through August 12, 2004 Jennifer D. Pegg 50  1  8-12-04  7:54 am Archive through August 16, 2004 John V. Omlor 50  1  8-16-04  1:44 pm Archive through September 02, 2004 John V. Omlor 50  1  9-02-04  10:28 am   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Caroline Anne Morris Assistant Commissioner Username: Caz Post Number: 1225 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 6:42 am:        Hi Tom, Many thanks for your thoughts and observations regarding Ripper Diary. Of course, we ‘portrayed’ the various people involved in the story by using their own words and behaviour, reproduced as faithfully as possible from the record. You wrote: ‘It portrayed Melvin Harris as a villain, standing over a girl tied to the railroad tracks, pinching his mustache and laughing maniacally’. And: ‘What loses me is that it seems some people…who DON'T believe in the Diary put as much or more effort into studying it, discussing, and literally getting evil about it. Why? Go study the case, have fun, and talk about it with us in the other threads. I don't think any of us picked up this hobby so we could find new people to hate.’ And when I read this, I suddenly thought back to the days, in late 2001 (before I was in a position to let anyone know that Keith Skinner had asked me to co-author a new diary book), when John O and I seemed to get on like a house on fire. He would write me admiring emails, understanding if I thought the boards took up too much of my time, or if I felt frustrated and didn’t need the abuse I was getting from other posters, but urging me not to leave unless I really wanted to. He would compliment me on being one of the few voices of thorough sense, healthy scepticism, incisive observation, clear writing and good humour on the boards (yes, this was John talking!). If I went, he said, they would be much the worse for my absence. He even told me to have fun and laugh at the fools. Yet I now only see this pantomime villain, standing over the girl tied to the railroad tracks, pinching his moustache and laughing maniacally, claiming that she (as one of your so-called ‘Diarists’) is tied to the boards. These days, he even writes to you: ‘And I do think you're probably wrong about what you say in your PS. In fact, we've tried it. We've gone days in the past without posting (mostly when the loyal and desperate few were away or unable to post, etc.), but it changed nothing. As soon as one of them was again able to post, they did.’ In fact, if you were to check the archives you would find the evidence does not bear this out. I, for one, tend only to respond to posts which, in my view, warrant a response of some sort, either to correct misapprehensions or misinformation, provide additional info or challenge an argument or opinion, where I feel it is appropriate. I tend not to initiate new discussions, whether there is a lull in the conversation or not, preferring to take full advantage of such lulls to bugger off and have some real fun (or get on with some real work!) elsewhere. By insisting that we all ‘know’ the diary is a cheap modern fake, and then writing: ‘But we also know that fakes are bad for the soundness of any historical discipline, even if they are good for "business"', John is lumping me and Keith and Seth Linder and Feldy and Shirley together, despite any protests he might make to the contrary, and suggesting we have all been ‘actively pimping a forgery’, just by writing books about it and failing to ‘admit’ we are writing about ‘a cheap fake’. As far as I am aware, Feldy’s and Shirley’s beliefs about the diary are genuinely and sincerely held, however difficult that is for some anti-diarists to grasp. And I will have no fixed beliefs about the diary’s origins unless or until beliefs become redundant with the emergence of the truth, wearing belt and braces. I suspect Keith feels the same way. So are the accusations of ‘actively pimping a forgery’, or even ‘creative snake-oil salesmanship’, justified or justifiable in this case? I think not. Love, Caz X   Ally Chief Inspector Username: Ally Post Number: 740 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 7:04 am:        Dear Caroline, What a crock. "Of course, we ‘portrayed’ the various people involved in the story by using their own words and behaviour, reproduced as faithfully as possible from the record." This is blatant BS and we have already been over this. You did not portray them as faithfully as possible, you liberally sprinkled your text with extremely biased and caustic leads against one character and with pity her and the life she's lead comments about another. Your text was biased, manipulative and your continual insistence that it was fair and balanced is baloney considering that you yourself spent years while involved in this project baiting and mocking and insulting a principle character you were writing about! Please do your credibility a favor and quit insisting that it was an unbiased account.   Jennifer D. Pegg Chief Inspector Username: Jdpegg Post Number: 938 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 7:05 am:        Hi everyone, is it me or is this starting to get a little bit (and i can't think of a more polite way to say this) stupid! I've read Paul Feldman's book (on several occasions), there's no doubt in my mind that he thinks the diary is genuine and that he is 100% sure of this. Likewise with Shirley Harrison, but after reading their respective books on the subject I do not share their views. This does not mean that I (or anyone else) does not accept that their views are anything less than real. Your own book I enjoyed very much also. I don't think a better book on the subject could have been written. It is natural even inevitable to have views on things! I don't think that is a criticism of anyone. You know, the thing is I think you all respect each other's opinions at the end of the day even if you don't share them. The problem you (Caz) are experiencing is that in the main you appear to be the only one willing to come and express certain opinions, on these boards which no doubt can get very frustrating for you (especially when the rest of us are so set in our ways, myself included!!) As for the use of the word pimping - it is an unfortunate choice under the circumstances I agree but if that's how John feels... Anyway, perhaps it's time to take a chill pill after all!!! Much of this thread seems to have little to do with if James Maybrick was Jack anymore, and I was thinking that was what it was supposed to be about, Cheers Jenni "Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr   Ally Chief Inspector Username: Ally Post Number: 741 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 7:16 am:        Jennifer, Jennifer, Jennifer... Do not try to be the voice of reason. They will turn on you en masse, united in the goal to savage anyone seeking to stop their fun. Back girl.   Jennifer D. Pegg Chief Inspector Username: Jdpegg Post Number: 939 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 7:26 am:        Ally, our posts overlapped and I missed yours. I wasn't trying to be the voice of reason. I wasn't trying to stop anyone's fun (see my earlier posts on this thread). This whole thing is starting to do my head in a little bit - that's all!!! It would be good if we could play nicely in the playground ha ha!! Just saying!! Jenni "Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 724 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 8:24 am:        Ah, well. What was it I said? "Rest assured, that some here are far more interested in the discussion continuing and in talk of the diary being kept alive around here then others and if we all stopped posting on all of these threads right now, we'd see more diary stuff here, more dreams and wishes soon enough." I suppose it's time again to look at what I've actually been saying, and not the cartoon version Caroline has offered us above. The notion that I am "lumping together" Caroline and Seth and Keith with Shirley and Paul and Robert by pointing out that forgeries are bad for the soundness of any discipline is simply absurd. I have already written (TWICE NOW) that there is every good reason for the Diary World book to exist and that it should indeed have been written and provides a valuable service. At no point anywhere, in anything I have ever written, have I even so much as suggested that this book actively pimps the diary as authentic. It does not. I do, however, believe that there are moments in Paul's book and in Shirley's book and in Robert's writing on the subject where they ARE actively pimping a forgery. And that's a shame. I do believe that there are many moments on these boards where Caroline is actively, if only rhetorically, pimping the possibility of authenticity (with her talk about Maybrick knowing this and that and her suggesting all those incredible coincidences and all the rest), despite, perhaps, the fact that she knows the thing is a fake and that the real James certainly did not write it. But this is not the same as saying that the Diary World book did any of this. I don't think it did. So Caroline's invoking (and hiding behind) Keith and Seth and claiming that I am lumping them (and her book) in with the shameless writing of PF, SH, and RS is just a smoke screen, just a rhetorical maneuver, just another bit of faux-pique designed to claim victimhood around here. It's touching, but it's false. Those selling the diary as real are indeed pimping a forgery and selling snake oil. Those who wrote the book about what happened are not. That should be clear enough. And yes, a forgery is indeed bad for the integrity of any discipline, even if it does sell books. As to the history Caroline cites concerning "The Way We Were" -- as she well knows, I allied myself with her when I was arguing that there was not sufficient evidence to identify the forgers. There is not. But there is sufficient evidence to conclude, with all the valid logic of any sound induction, that the real James Maybrick did not write this book (and she knows that). So I cannot agree with nor respect her repeated attempts here to excuse that evidence with irrational fairy-tales and impossibly odds-defying simultaneous coincidences which represent the triumph of desire over reason. Also, as she knows, there is more to our story than the part she recites. Not that it matters, but I would have probably left this discussion and these boards long ago, satisfied that the diary was a hoax and not worth anyone's serious time and, sadly, that the forgers will probably get away with it in the end. But then I found myself treated to some fascinating behavior. And my natural reaction to being threatened with lawsuits and later to having my professional reputation deliberately attacked was to stick around AND to take note of who did the decent and responsible thing and spoke up against these immature and ugly actions and who did not. "And then I do not forget," as a wise old patriarch once famously said. And that's one reason you all have been stuck with me since then. But that's all in the past. Now I am here for the reasons I explained to Tom. New arrivals must be reminded that this book is a cheap fake. And silliness and desperation in the form of impossible coincidences must not be allowed to take the place of common sense, actual reading, and rational thought. The title of this thread is a joke. We all know that. Some people admit it and some don't. Lets see what happens next. "Still nothing new, still nothing real," --John   Jennifer D. Pegg Chief Inspector Username: Jdpegg Post Number: 941 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 10:24 am:        http://http://casebook.org/suspects/james_maybrick/mbgrave.html If we're talking about reputations I am sure I don't have to remind you of the above. I don't know really what the 'idea' of ripperology is so to speak, but in the case of diary world there is one person who can clearly benefit from some kind of logical solution. Indeed if that person is guilty then we have solved it - but most of us do not believe that. All that remains is to try and find out who's handwriting the diary is in. Who actually wrote it and when. Does the rest of it really matter? take this how you want! "Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr   Jason Scott Mullins Inspector Username: Crix0r Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 1:28 pm:        +5 Cool points to John for using "Pimping" and "Pimps" correctly in a sentence.. Here I thought I was the only one who spoke like that crix0r "I was born alone, I shall die alone. Embrace the emptiness, it is your end."   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 725 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 1:44 pm:        Thanks there, Mack Daddy Jason , Unfortunately, what they're selling, as is so often the case with this verb, isn't all its "cracked" up to be. And I thought you were giving me points for the Godfather reference... --John (who has come home to find his printer was drowned by Frances)   Jason Scott Mullins Inspector Username: Crix0r Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 2:55 pm:        Sorry there John, I must have missed the Godfather reference.. I was peepin' the thread out too quickly. I must admit that I do not normally venture into the diary portion of our illustrious message board, for what should be obvious reasons I saw your message however, in the "Last Week" search results and felt very inclined to award cool points. Keep on rockin'.. crix0r "I was born alone, I shall die alone. Embrace the emptiness, it is your end."   Birgit Lindh Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:48 pm:        "If the anti-Diarists as yourself (John Omlor that is) stopped posting in force, the Diarists would too...". That's what Westcott wrote. That's what I thought too, seeing that Maybrick was the second most popular discussion subject. But now I have really been reading for hours and hours and seen how and what the maybrickites are writing. Yes they need this discussion on this biggest of all Ripper sites - with thousands and thousands hits a day - so that the flame can burn until their next book is ready. But after reading Maybrick threads until my eyes hurt, I apologize for even thinking that ignoring them was a way to lessen their impact. As they get space in Ripper-magazines etc people are bound to come here and look what's it's all about. And if John and others weren't here to contradict them they would only post more often and make more outrageous statements. I not only apologize, I think that the whole board should be utterly thankful to John. His unflagging resistance and sheer energy has made their tries utterly worthless and insanely ridiculous. (Not for having different views of course, but for evading all answers and shifting from facts to word-fighting.) I have also read - again - all the Maybrick dissertations - and my admiration for Melvin Harris is bigger than ever. So what if he called things by their right name...But I will leave this site now; as I said the Mabrick HocusPocus has killed the big interest in JtR that I used to have. Bye.   Birgit Lindh Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 6:35 am:        Moderator If it is possible please do not post my latest message where I say that I've changed my mind and that we should be thankful to John Omlor etc. Nothing can come out of this sad discussion anyway and I do not want to help it in any way. I am sick to death of the whole thing (including JtR himself) thanks to this Maybrick thing. It's so filled with dishonest, false, moneygrubbing people that one wants to throw up. 3 people in my family used to be very interested - one of them posted here also - but grew tired of JtR thanks to Mayb(r)ickering. In fact one person in my household was on the brink of 1)ordering books, 2) ordering the old Casebook on CD, 3)subscribe to Ripperologist, but changed his mind when he read Shirly Harrisons piece "Dear diary". (In fact I didn't agree with him there - that piece was so totally inferior compared to Harris' and the other anti-diarists dissertations, that I thought it was quite smart to include it.) Anyway take away my latest message if you can - if you can post it as a private message to John Omlor instead, it would be even better. Bye for....perhaps not forever but for years. Birgit Lindh   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 727 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 8:31 pm:        To all concerned. I received Birgit's original kind and thoughtful post via private e-mail. I am not sure she wanted this one posted either. But I do appreciate her thoughts and I do understand the effect that this fake diary and its ugly history have had on the field and on many of those interested in the field. Take care, Birgit, and know that people do understand. --John   Thomas C. Wescott Inspector Username: Tom_wescott Post Number: 180 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 10:07 pm:        Hello all, Wow, check out the smack-talkin'! Birgit seems like a nice girl, but rather sensitive. Oh well, you know what they say about hot kitchens. I must agree with what Ally said about Caroline's book. It clearly betrays a bias and to deny so is kinda silly. I disagree with the suggestion that Paul Feldman is knowingly forcing a forgery on the marketplace, as I used to correspond regularly with him. The man was passionate about his belief in its authenticity. And remember, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't believe Maybrick was the Ripper. I've also no reason to believe that Shirley Harrison is knowingly promoting a forgery, as she seems quite sincere. Honest people have been taken in by forgeries before, as we all know. Who is Seth Linder, by the way, and how did he end up co-authoring 'Ripper Diary'? It seems like Caroline and John are both passionate, educated people who have no problem speaking their minds, and they'd probably get along great sans Diary. However, that arsenic Sir Jim was takin' back in the day is still a'poisonin'. Caz, On an unrelated topic...I seem to remember, many years ago, you'd coyly mention a theory you had. Was this pre-Diary? If so, what was the theory? I'm curious. Yours truly, Tom Wescott   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 733 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 4:20 am:        Hi Tom, A bit of semantics here. Shirley and Paul are both selling us a forgery as if it were real. It's not. When I use Jason's favorite verb, that's what I mean. And this fake has poisoned the professional relationships of a good many better Ripper scholars and historians than Caroline and John. That's another reason why forgeries are simply bad for the field. Thanks, and enjoy the day, --John   Christopher T George Chief Inspector Username: Chrisg Post Number: 896 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 2:38 pm:        Hi, all Seth Linder is a writer, journalist, and campaigner. Here's a couple of things on Seth and his interests-- Reflections on Omagh To the Manor Born Also see Seth Linder's website. I was fascinated in the first link, about Northern Ireland, to learn that Seth lives in Rostrevor, Northern Ireland, which I have visited in connection with my War of 1812 interests. General Robert Ross, who led the August-September 1814 British attacks of 1814 on Washington and Baltimore (he was killed outside of the latter) was from Rostrevor and there is a 100-foot obelisk to his memory on the shoreline. Small world. Another connection is that Lord Russell of Killowan who defended Florence Maybrick was from that part of the world. I don't know for sure but that might partly account for Seth's involvement as co-author of Ripper Diary. All my best Chris Christopher T. George North American Editor Ripperologist http://www.ripperologist.info   Thomas C. Wescott Inspector Username: Tom_wescott Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 1:11 am:        John, You're preaching to the choir, my brother. I've seen firsthand, for years now, what the Diary has done to relationships and reputations. Not a pretty site. Hence, I don't post about the Diary (even now, I'm only posting about the books, etc.) except to say I believe it's a hoax. And I apologizing for misreading your intent with the 'pimping'. I thought you meant they were doing so with intention. Chris, Thanks for that. You sure have your links handy at a moment's notice! I was just wondering where he came from since I'm somewhat well up to speed with Ripper peeps, but one day his name was on the cover of a book next to Keith "have census data, will travel" Skinner - one of the most respected names in Ripper research - and Caz, one of the...well...names in Ripper research (wink at Caz). On a different subject, how come the Rip's website isn't ripperologist.com? Was that domain name taken? Yours truly, Tom Wescott P.S. I look forward to seeing the new site and reading the next issue. I really dug the Jan Bondeson piece a couple of issues back. He's got an article in the last Fortean Times (not the new one out now) about a two-headed boy. Pretty ecclectic guy.   Caroline Anne Morris Assistant Commissioner Username: Caz Post Number: 1231 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 4:44 am:        The funniest suggestion of the week has got to be that I am 'hiding behind' Keith and Seth, followed closely by the idea that I feel like a poor hard-done-by victim. If either were true, I could have stopped posting here, on my ownsome, years ago. I sure picked a funny place to hide, didn't I? It's a shame that Birgit has allowed herself to get so discouraged about the subject of a long-dead serial killer, just because of a silly old diary that no one, including Melvin Harris, has succeeded in pinning on its real author. And yes, John, on this occasion I am happy to concede that if Mel had succeeded in doing so, he would have become famous for it. Love, Caz X   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 752 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 7:53 am:        Funny, perhaps. But a little reading bears it out. Caroline knows full well that, when I wrote that forgeries were bad for the integrity and soundness of any discipline, I was not "lumping together" the writers of the Diary World book with those who have been actively pimping a forgery, but nonetheless she chose to invoke the book and her fellow authors in some sort of rhetorical defense. All this when she knew full well that I have not criticized them, but rather have focused here only on her irrational excuses and her desperate invocations of coincidences around here, the ones she offers in place of simple common sense reading and logical conclusions on these boards. It was cute how she turned to naming Keith and Seth as if they too were being attacked, so she could claim joint victimhood, when it's just her desperate silliness on these threads that is and was being criticized. And yes, a forgery is indeed bad for the integrity of the discipline, regardless of what it does for anyone's book sales, especially those that pimp the forgery as real. And whether or not anyone has proven who committed this forgery does not change that fact one little bit. But you all already knew that, didn't you? --John PS: Just a reminder, the title of this thread is still clearly an indefensible assertion, as one can tell by reading here. (Message edited by omlor on September 10, 2004)   Tiddley boyar Unregistered guest Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 5:28 am:        I had always thought that the idea of a website such as this was for the serious debate of the subject at hand, in a mature fashion. All I seem to see at every visit is pointless immature squabbling and mud slinging. Each and every one of us is entitled to an opinion and should not be subjected to the amount of grief that often ensues. One statement in an earlier post in this thread subscribed to making new posters/members/enthusiasts aware that the 'diary' was a fake "New arrivals must be reminded that this book is a cheap fake". How anyone can act so unprofessionally is beyond me. It is up to the individual to read, assess and make up their own minds about anything they read. The diary after all has not been proven 100% to be a hoax (and in my opinion it never will be). Valuable input by others may be lost through such irresponsible attitudes on certain factors of the JTR 'business', believe me, it has before. The title of the thread is,in my opinion,entirely correct, (regardless of the diary). JAMES MAYBRICK WAS JACK THE RIPPER. "Speaking for the silent majority"   MF Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 12:43 pm:        Didn't Maybrick have American contact? Doesn't that merit in his favour as a Ripper candidate? Any connection with America makes an extremely viable candidate. It's the first thing you look for in a 19th Century serial killer. Dear Boss Bulling with his Americanisms knew that 115 years ago. The Diary author/forger with his "fruits of America" knew that 10 years ago. Now we know--not only does America have a higher incidence rate; its killers are younger. American experts would say other countries under-report. Maybe Americans under-report their killers who start over 40, with no significant jail time.   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 784 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 9:58 am:        TB, Why what could be more professional that making sure people know they are reading a cheap fake designed to mislead them? It protects the integrity of the discipline, it protects the soundness and seriousness of the scholarship, and it preserves the truth for unsuspecting readers. Every single piece of real evidence without exception tells us its a fake. It's not in the alleged author's handwriting, its littered with historically impossible lines and ahistoricisms and incorrect details about the crimes, there's no established provenance whatsoever and there's not a single piece of real evidence anywhere on the planet that links it even to the proper century let alone its alleged author. The evidence allows easily and clearly for a logically valid inductive conclusion. And people should be warned when they are buying and reading a cheap forgery. In fact, such a task could even be considered a professional responsibility. Happy to oblige, --John PS: MF -- Well, according to the latest edition of the book James was whacking people in Texas too, right?   Tiddley boyar Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 7:09 pm:        Until it is proven one way or another as 100% hoax or 100% for real we shouldn't make assumptions. If it is proven as a hoax I would be quite happy (though somewhat surprised) to have to accept that fact, but as yet nothing is proven either way 100%, it is not case closed yet. None of the popular arguments against the journal being genuine are, in my opinion , watertight. TB   MF Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 11:23 am:        The Diary author rightly did not lay claim to the Austin Ax Murders. (Imagine a Victorian Englishman laying claim to the first Texas serial killings? Ridiculous to anyone in the know.) Assuming he knew about them, the author/forger was very shrewd in making James' first murders the Ripper ones plus one or two. If he didn't know, he certainly knew enough about the importance of the American Connection and about the subtle European differences that would have been glaringly obvious in the infancy of the the serial killer phenomenon (not the least of which is age difference). Could a Mike Barrett have known this? Anymore than Shirley Harrison?   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 804 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 2:34 pm:        Hi MF, Of course, there is nothing in the diary that says anything at all about Texas or any other murders in America or any other such nonsense. So there's no reason Mike or any other forger would have had to have known this given what's on the pages. As for the "American connection," that was certainly much publicized and very well known from the time of the trial on and can be found detailed in a number of modern books on the case, including and especially Ryan's. We must remember what's actually written on those pages. It included precious little detail. And some of the little detail about the crimes it does include, the forger gets wrong. So there's that. And I'm not even mentioning that the forgers couldn't even be bothered getting the handwriting close to right. And there is no evidence whatsoever, of any sort, that the murders the diarist has James committing in Manchester, including the one before the Ripper ones, ever took place. Of course, there is no evidence of any sort whatsoever anywhere on the planet that even suggests that this diary is real, let alone existed in the right century. You'll notice my friend TB up there doesn't offer any. No one does. Ever. That should tell you something. All the best, --John PS: "The American Connection" -- doesn't that sound like the title of a Muppets movie? Or perhaps a show at EPCOT, the home of Figment! How perfectly appropriate.   Tiddley boyar Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 7:24 am:        As always the anti diary arguments are circular and pointless. Manchester Murders? If someone finds likely victims with initials to match the two on the watch, then of course the hoaxer would have sourced it there also. Handwriting? Every one of us can write in a number of styles. The handwriting, can you post the large amount of examples of known Maybricks handwriting on here for analysis? it would be appreciated. Can you perhaps enlighten us on your theory of who dunnit? Everyone is aware of every argument you have ref; Maybrick and the 'diary', it is becoming very boring. Why not attempt something positive on something of JTR that you believe? You could alternatively get a life, you must follow this site 24hrs a day. Regards, TB   MF Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 2:38 pm:        The American Connection is a factor not a figment. What other new element in the 19th Century could bring on a new phenomenon in, of all places, the one country with probably the most American contact? Living in Florida, you should probably recognize phenomena by now. You should be seeing Munchkins by now telling you to follow the Maybrick Road. Just watch out for the Mayflower Bushes! Ha ha.   John V. Omlor Chief Inspector Username: Omlor Post Number: 831 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:00 pm:        Once again, my friend TB offers us no evidence whatsoever to support the idea that the real James had anything to do with this book or with these murders. Why am I not surprised? And for his information, there are now twelve separate examples on record of the real James Maybrick's handwriting. Some of them have even been reproduced in readily available books on this subject. Not one of them looks anything at all like the writing in the diary. The simplest and most logical explanation for this? D'uh... The real James didn't write it. I realize desire often trumps common sense and logic around here. But at some point, the simple and obvious should allow for a logical conclusion. Thanks for playing, --John PS: And still we wait, suppressing a chuckle, for TB's super secret evidence.   Jennifer D. Pegg Assistant Commissioner Username: Jdpegg Post Number: 1112 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 7:27 am:        Ok I don't want to start any more threads so lets move the rest of what I've got to say over to this the ironically named thread! I have a problem with two other things, the first is the missing pages, the second is the ending, Jenni "Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr   AIP Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 2:50 am:        I have a theory about Tiddley, he gets tiddley before he posts. He spouts total rubbish.   Jennifer D. Pegg Assistant Commissioner Username: Jdpegg Post Number: 1118 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:50 am:        Did James have some kind of psychic ability or know he was going to die? How did he know? 'i do not know if she has the strength to kill me' hardly sounds confident, does it? And anyway, it's commonly accepted that Maybrick was not killed by his wife at all, so .... Jenni "Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr   Jennifer D. Pegg Assistant Commissioner Username: Jdpegg Post Number: 1121 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:39 am:        and another thing where was it for a hundred years? Jenni "Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr   Tiddley boyar Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 3:49 pm:        I have come to the sad conclusion that it is not worth posting on this website. I think a number of previously contributing and prominent “Ripper Experts” came to this same conclusion some time ago and no longer take an active part. I put forward possibilities or ideas which is more than some empty heads on here who cannot think of their own theories or possibilities, but are intent on rubbishing others ideas. I’m sure many others out there, the silent majority, would contribute their thoughts and ideas were it not for the ridicule they are likely to encounter. No-one knows for certain who JTR was and in reality never will, only the killer ever knew. As for “TB's super secret evidence”, it does exist, is quite extensive and, we believe, will have something of an impact on Ripperology. As I’ve said before, neither myself nor my colleague are avid JTR fans, we just happened upon something that came to fruition. Hopefully it may see the light of day sometime. Unfortunately it does not lend itself to posting on here as we originally intended, and would require an overall more mature audience, who are open minded and take the subject seriously. (No offence to those open minded and less cynical of you contributors out there. I do know who you are!) I assume JTR sites are few and far between, and the chances of finding one where serious discussion takes place are limited. AIP – Amazingly for this day and age I have been teetotal for over 18 years, don’t get personal with people you don’t know, grow up and get a life! I guess I’m bored of the cynicism and attitude from the same contributors with the same repetitive postings, I’ve thrown my dolly out, it’s time to move on. Regards, Tiddley boyar