| Author |
Message |
    
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2526
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 4:54 pm: | 
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Around the time of the murders, Grimthorpe became embroiled in a controversy over homeopathy. "The Times" Friday Sept 21 1888 pg. 5 :
There had been quite a protracted controversy.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3304
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 6:53 pm: |
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This is Lord Grimthorpe letting rip here, isn't it, AP?
JUNE 30th 1879
Robert |
Clarke
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 3:43 pm: |
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Hello All
Does anyone know if any of the letters sent by Thomas Cutbush to Lord Grimthorpe still exist, as I would really like to be able to view the style of handwriting of Thomas.
Any help would be most welcome.
Regards
Clarke |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1661
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 5:39 pm: |
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Lord Grimthorpe was a naughty boy.
In 1860, while Lord Grimthorpe was still the humble barrister known as Mr Beckett Denison, he illegally prepared the will of a certain Mr Dent - who just happened to be Her Majesty's clockmaker and designer of the Big Ben clock.
(see The Times, Jan 4th 1888. page 10, letters to the editor.)
It took twenty eight years for this to pop out of the woodwork, such was Grimthorpe's grip on society in general, but more than that it does appear that the Dent family took over their watchmaking expertise from a family who were designing remarkable escapement movements, much like Grimthorpes for Big Ben.
Still looking at that, but I do smell a large rat running around Big Ben tonight. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3726
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 5:31 am: |
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Hi AP
Well of course THC may have been writing to Grimthorpe over clocks. But also, the homeopathic angle has obvious connotations regarding someone who believes he has syphilis.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3727
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 6:18 am: |
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AP, Nov 29th 1884 mentions Kendal and Dent and Beckett in relation to the 24 hour clock.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1663
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 1:15 pm: |
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Yes, Robert, quite right.
It is just as likely that THC wrote to Lord Grimthorpe concerning his imagined - or real - venereal disease, as his family connections to clocks in general and Big Ben in particular.
I too have studied the voluble correspondence in The Times between LG and his many protagonists, and yes it was the hot topic of the year, and I’m quite sure the entire Cutbush family - including young THC - would have been reading the dramatic and scathing attacks along with the rest of London.
But much more than that, I had not realised just what a papist hater old LG was. Heavens above! He was one of the nobility in 1888 who verbally attacked the clergy of St Paul’s Cathedral, loudly demanding the immediate removal of ‘lying Romish images’, to wit a large crucifix and an image of the Madonna.
Such ‘Romish images’ were ‘illegal and obnoxious graven images’ that had been ‘thrust’ upon the ‘noblest national temple’ of England, so said LG.
This is fighting talk and no mistake.
I can just see uncle Charles feverishly loading his service pistol and shouting out: ‘Thomas, my lad! Come on we have work to do!’
Make no mistake, Robert, we talk of great catalytic events here, designed specifically to cause some great fire.
The cleansing power of fire was obviously required in 1888 in the modern capital of the world, but perhaps the fire broke out where nobody was expecting it?
And some fingers got burnt.
We must continue to explore all such catalytic events, for one of them must have fired the Ripper up, that’s for sure.
To that purpose I will begin a new thread for such events, minor and major.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3733
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 1:44 pm: |
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Good idea, AP. Should be interesting.
Robert |
Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 125
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 2:05 pm: |
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AP,
Because it's impossible to believe that people do things for other reasons? Is that why there had to be some cataclysmic event to produce 'JTR's murders? Or is this just conveinent to your suspect?
STAN RUSSO |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1664
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 6:38 pm: |
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No Stan
I really did not mean cataclysmic.
I meant catalytic.
Little fire lighters spread all around that would eventually launch what you term a cataclysmic event.
My suspect is nobody.
It could be Donald MacGregor Maguire who in 1886 imprisoned young Letitia and sexually assaulted her.
It could be George Reynolds who in 1887 attempted to murder his wife and was detained under Her Majesty's Pleasure.
It could be Frederick Pitchford who posing as a sanitary inspector in 1888 sexually assaulted Magaret Dodd.
It could be Samuel S. Wiggins, an associate of the Royal Academy of Music, who on Jan 13th 1888, became the first person to sexually assault a female on a train, when he unbuttoned 13 year old Elizabeth Jane Cutbush's blouse - against her will - and fondled her.
Ah, Stan, that name again.
That damned Cutbush name.
Nothing is convenient in this game, not even syphillis.
I offer this Elizabeth Jane Cutbush, 13, of Mardale Road, Shepherd's-Bush, as my first 1888 catalytic event.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3735
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 6:55 pm: |
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AP, I thought Wiggins was acquitted of that.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1665
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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He was, Robert.
But so was everyone else.
If you were a 'gentleman' it was perfectly acceptable to sexually assault young ladies of a lower class in the LVP.
I have a corker of a case somewhere where the 'gentleman' was bang to rights convincted of such a sexual assault, but when you read the list of his character witnesses you just know he is walking back to the Red Lion to do it all again. Seven capering Lords and several dancing barons, plus a bevy of clergymen and the odd justice of the peace was enough to continue the smooth progress of a gentleman's progress through the East-End.
I think my point is that we do not know enough, but as information becomes available we should.
Any of the gentlemen I mentioned in my earlier post are much more lively suspects than any of the present top ten.
They have conviction. |
Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 126
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 11:23 pm: |
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AP,
There you go again solving the case. Good job AP, it has to be Thomas Cutbush.
Why does no one step in and explain that these are the same type of connections used to discredit other suspects when presented. The same type of thing.
STAN RUSSO |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3737
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 4:01 am: |
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Hi Stan
Rest assured, neither AP nor I claim to have solved the case. What we've been doing on the Cutbush threads, is to pick up the Cutbush ball and see how far we can run with it. We've been trying to gather information on all things Cutbush. Sometimes kindly researchers such as Chris Scott or Debra Arif pop in with some welcome information.
When we find something that seems to argue against Cutbush being JTR, we post it. For example, a while ago AP was wondering whether the whole thing wasn't a frame-up by Cutbush's relatives.
I, and I'm sure AP, would welcome criticism from yourself or anyone else who's interested. At the moment we're having to criticise ourselves.
All this research is taking a long time, because I at least am not a trained researcher, and I tend to zigzag all over the place - wherever I can get any info. At some future point we'll probably be able to say either
Yes, Cutbush probably was the Ripper.
OR
No, he probably wasn't.
OR
We'll probably never know.
That last one sounds familiar, doesn't it. 
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3739
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 4:58 am: |
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AP, in the 1891 census Elizabeth Jane is a "pupil teacher school" which i assume to mean "trainee schoolteacher".
Robert |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1564
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 5:28 am: |
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Stan,
i confess i am confused!
Jenni
"I wanna really really really wanna zigazig ah"
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Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 127
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 6:07 am: |
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Robert,
Of course you guys don't claim to have solved the case. Perhaps you see the hypocrisy that exists when AP continuously brings up unconnective information such as - hey, Lord Chizzlewimple's postal carrier was a university chum of Thomas Cutbush, and as we all know postal workers go postal, so theres that name Cutbush again. Or the second adopted nephew of Baron Von Ubernothingtodowiththiscase once visited a prostitute and he recollects a story where someone said something to him. This someone could have been Thomas Cutbush. There's that name again.
Yet when anyone else tries to connect a link to a suspect, especially in the case of James Maybrick they immediately become idiots and are wasting everyone's time. I can link Boris Karloff to James Maybrick through their family. If I brought that up as a psychological analysis in the possible favoring of maybrick I'd be laughed off the boards. But AP can consistently say - theres that name again, and everyone goes ooohhhhh and ahhhh, or refuses to call a spade a spade.
I'm calling a spade a spade.
Keep looking for that catalytic even in London that proves it was Cutbush AP. A good use of time.
Jenni,
I guess it is just my job to confuse you. I'm getting good at it.
STAN RUSSO |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1566
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 6:27 am: |
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Stan,
ahh it's just I am easy to confuse i guess!
I think I see what you are getting at so I will shut up!
Jenni
"I wanna really really really wanna zigazig ah"
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3741
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 7:49 am: |
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No, Stan, you're being very unfair to AP here, who is the last person I'd accuse of hypocrisy. But take comfort that if AP ever joins the Temperance League, I will be the first to point the finger.
What we're doing here is thinking aloud, and it's natural therefore that sometimes the qualifying "maybes" "perhapses" "possiblies" etc get omitted. And perhaps in the first flush of a discovery we get bowled over by it. But that's because it's so exciting. We're well aware of how much work still needs to be done - that's why we're doing it.
As I understand it, anyway, AP's main interest in JTR is criminological, whereas I'm the one who's desperate to know whodunnit.
We're in the same position as the Druittists. We try to make connections, interpret information, but at the centre somewhere there's a vast swathe of information that may - or may not- explain everything, and we simply haven't yet been able to access it.
Of your two examples, the one about the Baron is a hearsay example, and I can't remember our using any hearsay. In fact, I'd give my right arm to get my hands on some!
If the one about the Lord is meant to be about Grimthorpe, then it does strike me as interesting that
The Cutbushes made clocks
A Cutbush married into the Mears family (twice)
Mears had a controversy with Lord Grimthorpe over Big Ben
Thomas Hayne Cutbush wrote to Lord Grimthorpe
Just behind the foundry were two houses owned by Cutbushes
Thomas Hayne Cutbush's father is asked to explain his interest in such houses
It might, or might not, add up to something.
I'll leave AP to answer about the Diary. Personally I've never posted a thing about the Diary (except in humour) but am on good terms with Caz.
I haven't noticed everyone going "oohh" and "ahh" except for a few kind folks who've said "That's interesting".
But Stan, you're welcome to go "oohh" or "ahh" or "um" or "crap" or whatever you like.
Robert
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Phil Hill
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 3:07 am: |
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We must continue to explore all such catalytic events, for one of them must have fired the Ripper up, that’s for sure. [My bolding.]
Interesting posts AP, and I am not in doubt of their potential relevance. However, it is the word MUST in your sentence above that I would quibble on. "Could" - I might agree, but "must"?
An alienated, half-way "insane", neglected waif og the streets would not need such a catalyst to lash out. neither would a man like Druitt given perceived causes personal to himself.
I will read your proposed thread with interest. I will retain an open mind on whether the connection to JtR is as direct as you think.
Cordially, and with appreciation for all the energy and intellect you bring to this case, from which we all benefit,
Phil |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1666
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:04 pm: |
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Stan
I have to say straight away that I accept everything you say as ‘fair comment’. Robert has provided you with a more than eloquent reply and explanation, but I would also urge you to read my post of the 28th December on the ‘Cutbush in the 1881 census’ thread.
Sometimes one gets swept up in this tide of undiscovered Victoriana; and obviously our own excitement and pleasure at such discoveries is not shared by the likes of your good self. That is life I’m afraid, your loss, our gain.
As Robert says, we are sweeping a gigantic warehouse floor with a couple of old tooth brushes, and amongst all that dust and debris is occasionally something that sparkles.
Personally I have tried very hard not to throw up wild or spurious information in an attempt to make dubious connections firmer.
As a for instance I can say that my interest in Lord Grimthorpe is in one regard alone: that he is mentioned by name in the most important police document we possess on the crimes of Jack the Ripper.
I’ve taken that single regard and then attempted to find out exactly ‘why’ Lord Grimthorpe is mentioned in the Macnaghten Memorandum.
Simple as that. No complications.
However one point in your little tirade that I will not allow to pass unchallenged is your vague assertion that I am attempting to engineer a system and scenario in which ’my suspect’ will comfortably fit.
On the contrary - as Robert points out - I am my own worst enemy in this regard, and have spent the last six months shooting myself and Thomas Cutbush in the foot with reckless abandon.
Although painful the shots to the foot are good for the soul.
You should try it some time.
I’ll even let you use my service pistol. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1667
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:22 pm: |
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Thanks for that, Robert.
Just to explain myself better in regard to ‘catalytic’ events, I do mean things that might have appeared in the newspapers of the time and had an inspirational effect on some readers.
That’s why I threw up this sexual assault on the young Cutbush girl as an example, for if you were called Cutbush and were flicking through The Times and read that name it would certainly have got your attention. If you were called Charles Henry Cutbush you would probably be loading your service pistol, and if you were called Thomas Cutbush you might well be buying a rail ticket.
I have no idea whether this young girl is related to the Cutbush families that interest us… I just found the timing good, early 1888, a new form of crime to enthral the readers, locomotive powered sexual assaults…. Where would it all end!
Where indeed.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3749
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:49 pm: |
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I understand, AP. And, as I'm sure you've noticed, Uncle Charles's name came up on Jan 18th in connection with Trafalgar Square.
Phil, thanks for your post.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1669
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 3:52 pm: |
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Yes, Robert, I clocked uncle Charles at Trafalgar Square, but I also clocked Lord Grimthorpe signing up as a ‘Special Constable’ at the same event so that he could go out and break a few heads as well.
Now, for Stan’s benefit, I ain’t made no song and dance about that. If uncle Charles and Lord Grimthorpe want to go out and smash a few good Catholic heads that’s up to them.
And uncle Charles’ reaction to deputations who came to Scotland Yard seeking permission to protest?
I hear the well oiled mechanism of a Tranter service pistol, for he promptly ordered the rioters out of his office before they could speak and had them thrown out into the yard of the Yard, and vainly did they protest to The Times.
But who am I to comment on such nondescript events?
I don’t remember doing any kind of jig when I found out that the Cutbush family of Maidstone were involved in legal proceedings concerning the Constitutional Society & Association that eventually resulted in Old Bailey trials for high treason against Queen and country.
In fact if I remember correctly I never ever mentioned it at all, because I thought the connections somewhat spurious.
Phil
Sometimes my word choice is at the mercy of my choice of brandy.
My apologies for that, and thank you for your positive comments.
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SirRobertAnderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 4:59 pm: |
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" I can link Boris Karloff to James Maybrick through their family."
Stan - I don't want to hijack this thread, but as you raise this point, I've gotta ask if it's said in jest or truly the case.
I will add that Cutbush strikes me as a worthy suspect, and it is to be expected that a lot of false leads and errata will present themselves for all suspects, even the stronger ones.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3753
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 8:16 pm: |
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Sir Robert, thanks for that.
Robert |
Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 128
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 9:13 pm: |
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Does it really matter if Maybrick was related to Boris Karloff? About the same as Charles Cutbush having drinks or a fight with Lord Gobblydeegoop. Also about the same as a modern serial killer's methodology or the real meaning for the use of zip codes. Absolutely nothing. But hey, there's that Cutbush name again. Spooky.
STAN |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 4:36 am: |
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Stan
with all due respect I would strongly suggest that if you have an aversion to the Cutbush name you should stay off the Cutbush thread.
My service pistol is still available. |
SirRobertAnderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 79
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
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"Does it really matter if Maybrick was related to Boris Karloff? About the same as Charles Cutbush having drinks or a fight with Lord Gobblydeegoop. Also about the same as a modern serial killer's methodology or the real meaning for the use of zip codes. Absolutely nothing. But hey, there's that Cutbush name again. Spooky. "
I hate to see dueling authors on the message boards. Not because we should all be peaceful and respectful, but because there are so damn few of you posting, the rest having been driven away in disgust. The Wolfster deserves major kudos for standing and delivering here, week after week.
A Maybrick/Karloff connection would be filed under "interesting trivia", which is where one files 90% of the information gleaned in one's study of the Case.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1577
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 9:56 am: |
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i would hate to turn this into a maybrick thread but there is no evidence karloff was related to maybrick. there is some speculation based on speculation.
Jenni
"All You Need Is Positivity"
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1674
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
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Thanks Sir Robert
you make uncommon good sense with your post.
To my shame I hadn't realised that dear old Stan was an author - I am so out of touch with the modern world - but now I do rest assured that I will treat him in a suitable fashion.
Instead of a service pistol I'll offer him a banker's draft. Authors like that sort of thing.
For the record I am no longer an author, but am a retired author with enough funds to refuse the yankee dollar.
This is now my hobby, and quite frankly if dear old Stan wants a duel with me then me good old Tranter service pistols are loaded and ready.
Just like Long Liz he should learn to spit the grape skins out for then the fruit is not so sour.
Actually I enjoy his tirades.
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1675
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 4:34 pm: |
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Robert
on the subject of inspirational 'events'.
Have you come across the 'Spitalfields Disaster' of 1887 yet?
(The Times Jan 29, 1887)
There is so much going on here that I haven't got behind it myself yet.
Loads of names, Abberline and co, loads of places, Fieldgate Street, loads of dead people...
Well worth a look and as I still can't figure out how to post The Times perhaps you would be so kind.
It really is quite an event. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3760
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 5:46 pm: |
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Hi AP
I did see it, and tried to use one of the names to get into the Fieldgate St census, but it didn't work, so in the end I used another name I got from somewhere.
There is tons and tons of this stuff, AP, so I'll just post Jan 20th 1887. and I warn you, this won't be a nice tidy Chris Scott mouse manipulation job!
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1676
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 6:04 pm: |
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Thanks for that Robert
it is a good read.
Abberline is missing but I suppose he'd beggared off by then to see about his pension.
I feel that young Jack would have been in awe at such an event.
17 dead when a mouse gently squeeked 'fire'. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3762
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
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Hi AP
I've saved some more stuff, so I'll have a look for abberline. Talking of which, here's the other article you asked me to post.
DEC 2nd 1873
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1678
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 6:37 pm: |
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My thanks again Robert
Of course what I am wondering is just who was Inspector Abberline's 'district superintendent'?
I have a feeling that I know who this 'gentleman' was that visited the young lady in the cells and vouched for the fact that the young lady was not drunk.
Now doesn't this sound an awful lot like the night that Eddowes spent in the cells?
Me thinks this is a hot little number.
'The district superintendent was not, however, called.'
He should have been. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3763
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 6:42 pm: |
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Hi AP
I see what you're driving at. But doesn't it say in the article that the district supt was Mr Howard?
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1679
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 4:55 am: |
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Damn that final glass of brandy!
Sorry, Robert, my brain is even more addled than normal as I'm on painkillers and antibiotics for the dreaded pox. I really must stop walking around St Botolphs late at night in my fetching new bonnet.
Of course my thrust here is that just about everybody has damned my idea that a senior police offical with a vested interest could have visited Eddowes in the cells that night.
Here we actually have a case where this very thing happened, and as is obvious from the reporting the police are very uncomfortable in the situation they find themelves, referring to the senior officer involved as the 'gentleman' as if they didn't have a clue who he was.
The feisty young lady didn't bring that baby in her arms into court for nothing.
Thanks Robert. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3766
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 5:46 am: |
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Hi AP
Yes, point taken.
I will see if I can open a Spitalfields Disaster thread to try and get some of the rest of the stuff onto the Boards.
Robert |
Donovan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:25 pm: |
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Although this is my first post to this board, I have been checking this site often for the past several months. I am posting because I feel a compulsion to stand in defense of A.P and R. Linford. I am a fairly well versed researcher and I must say that their methods and quality of research is excellent. Furthermore, I feel that the thread that they are attempting to unwind is one of the most productive acts I have seen on these boards. Whether or not they uncover the true identity of JTR is irrelevent. The real reason for their research, in my opinion, is to either strengthen their own arguments or to eliminate Cutbush altogether. All involved in the search for JTR should do the same. |
Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 129
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:01 pm: |
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AP,
Holy bleeding women's area. Can you be more of a drama queen? A duel? Pistols? I assume its a joke but then you jump right back on the horse by putting your little pet into every situation. Now he's Eddowes' visitor in jail? Sorry if I misread that but the bull was getting too thick to wade through.
Opinion. I don't believe Cutbush was 'JTR'.
Fact. I don't have proof that he wasn't.
Reality. I don't keep placing my two suspects in every available spot. Please stop supposing and do some research. You might actually find something tangible. And you might find that name again. Oooooohhhhhhh there's that name again.
Robert, SirRobert, Phil and the rest,
Maybe he's wrong? Smarter men than him were wrong about Druitt. And maybe we're wrong about them being wrong. Use a little reason and allow for an alternate possibility. Or continue believing your #2's don't stink, but strill can't make any true headway in the case.
STAN |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3769
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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Stan, I'm sorry I can't reply to that, but if you'd like to post a coherent version, I will do my best.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3770
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:29 pm: |
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Donovan, thanks very much for that. There are still some unexplored avenues, including two quite major ones. As with some other suspects - Druitt, for instance - I feel that if at the end of the day the suspect just won't "fit" or even turns out to be innocent, then at least we'll have discovered a few things about some interesting characters.
Robert |
Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 130
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:35 pm: |
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Robert,
I'll dumb it down for you even though I will get reprimanded for it.
Please, for one moment, stop inhaling AP's proverbial Johnson and entertain an original or alernative idea or concept. Your back and forth masterbatory posts can be done between yourselves.
Sorry, it needed to be said.
STAN |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1586
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:56 pm: |
|
Sorry, it needed to be said
did this really need to be said....
'Holy bleeding women's area'?
and did this need saying...
'masterbatory posts'?
actually i wouldn't have thought so.
anyway i only mention this as some things NEED to be said
Cheers
Jenni
"All You Need Is Positivity"
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3771
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 4:03 pm: |
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Stan, sorry, but I'm not shattered. Try again.
I'm prepared to entertain quite a few concepts. Maybe Cutbush wasn't the Ripper. Maybe it was Druitt. Maybe it was Mr Unknown.
If it was Cutbush, maybe the Supt was involved. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe it was connected to clocks, inheritances...or just plain mental illness. There are a number of possibilities. I'm trying to find out which, if any, are true.
You might not want us to research Cutbush. Or maybe you just don't like our research. You're entitled to your opinion.
However, if you're fed up with reading "masturbatory posts," as you call them, well, Stan...stop being a voyeur.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1683
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 5:11 pm: |
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Robert
The important thing is that good folk like Debra come by and make a real, honest and dedicated contribution to the thread, and thus do we move forward. And as Donovan’s post proves we do provoke genuine interest from new or prospective members of the site.
Today I sat in front of The Times for five hours and the Old Bailey for three hours and didn’t get a lot in return, but hey don’t feel sorry for me because I found this little diamond amongst all the dust:
Central Criminal Court, Jan 16, 1890
‘If it were true that Saul told Abberline his story in August, he (his Lordship), as one of the public, should like to know, and he dared say that the jury would like to know, why it was that, if Abberline knew the story in August, he hold his peace, said nothing, and did nothing up to the present hour. It would be the first duty of those who were the guardians of peace and public morality, if they had evidence of crime like this, to bring the criminal to light - no duty could be more obligatory.’
Not the crime.
But the official concerned with the crime.
Thus does the story progress, Robert.
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Stan Russo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Stan
Post Number: 131
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 5:20 pm: |
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AP,
Great post. You're my hero. Really really really really super terrific stuff you've uncovered there. Kudos, hozannas and bravos all around. WOO HOO. Way to go and keep up the ultra-brilliant super terrific work.
A LOVING FAN
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3773
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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Hi AP
Interesting, in a non-masturbatory sort of way. Shame that, according to one poster, all that time you spent sitting at your computer doesn't constitute research.
But now, I'll ignore the whining, bellyaching noise in my ear long enough to ask you if you have any further info on this.
Robert |
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 5:18 pm: |
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Hi AP and Robert
I know you don't need peole to jump to your defence but I would just like to echo what has been posted above by Donovan. I think your style of research is excellent, and I like the fact you are trying to get to the truth whatever it may be!
I have to agree with what was posted by Maria recently on another Cutbush thread, I too read excerpts from AP's book a few years ago and was disapointed ,not with the style of writing but with the outcome and felt I had not been given enough information about Thomas Cutbush ( an interesting contempary suspect, of The Star at least ) and his relationship to supt. Cutbush , so I am very interested in the further research on Thomas being undertaken by you both.
PLEASE DO NOT DO IT PRIVATELY!!!!
I for one like it! |
