| Author |
Message |
    
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2670
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 12:20 am: |       |
A link for anyone interested in viewing a very high-resolution photograph of Mary Kelly. Its nearly 650KB in size.
http://casebook.org/images/kelly_trad_HUGE.jpg
Thought this might be helpful to those who do not have access to a clear and crisp copy of the photograph. Its amazing the number of details you can't see in the versions republished in the various books.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Rebecca Walker
Police Constable
Username: Beccainsc
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 8:40 pm: | |
Wow!
Definitely Mary up close and personal.
Now I know my eyesight isn't great, but I was really hoping to be able to see the "F M" that I've heard so much about. Perhaps someone could point me in the right direction? I know one of those fancy grids would be too much for this large picture. Maybe the smaller one with a grid, then I could reference back to the larger picture?
These posts on the details of the pictures are very thought provoking!
Rebecca |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2674
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 8:54 pm: | |
Hi Rebecca -
Here's a grid of the traditional Kelly photograph. The alleged 'FM' can be seen in D5/E5. The F is to the far right of D5 while the M is in the left-portion of E5.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Rebecca Walker
Police Constable
Username: Beccainsc
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 4:12 pm: | |
Many thanks Stephen!
I may have to go get my glasses changed as I'm still not seeing it, but at least I have a better idea of where to look. 
What is the origin of the rectangular marking on the wall where the letters are located? It seems too uniform to be just random dirtiness or normal "wear and tear" like the area further up appears to be. Though perhaps this is a question to be posed on one of the other threads.
Thanks again!
I am bound and determined to find these mysterious letters!
Rebecca |
Michelle E
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 8:28 pm: | |
Having just barely finished watching 'The Diary of Jack the Ripper', may I point out, that the 'F M', would be blurred due to the compression used by a JPEG file. Also the enlarged picture would distort the image.
The orginal viewing of 'F M' would have been taken from the orignal copy. Of course if the supposedly fake diary hadn't stated 'a clue'. Then this would have carried on being unseen. |
Michael Richards
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 3:19 pm: | |
I believe that the "FM" referred to in the photo appears in grid # G4 actually. I dont claim to be an expert on this point, but I recall all references to the initials mentioned "above the body". They appear to be eithered written on, or perhaps engraved into the wood. Another point on the location....it is believed that she her head was on the upper right of the bed when the fatal cut was delivered, then moved back onto the middle of the bed and placed in a way that made the mutilations easier to execute. I would imagine by the resulting damage that she would have been laid open so to speak...arms splayed out, and legs, bent open and separated. Once he had accomplished what he wanted, he posed the left arm with the hand in the abdominal cavity, and the reason for the almost complete amputation of the right arm may have occurred becaues he could not position it the way he wanted due to the beginning of rigor mortis. I think that the estimated time he took allows for the preliminary stiffening, and that same thing may have been what he was doing with the circular cuts on the legs. He could'nt move them the way he wanted, so he tried to remove them instead. Does'nt her pose seem to be some kind of symbolic message to anyone else? I mean with the obvious pulling and pushing that would go on with the pulling free skin and organs her body would have been lucky to remain intact at all, let alone in such an almost a natural pose in sleep for example. She was posed, I think in an indecent manner due to her occupation and her killers hatred for it. |
John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 1:26 pm: | |
Excellent photo enlargement, SPR. For the first time in 26 years (and Bog knows how many viewings), I can actually see the split femur up close. Definitely not the work of a Lister knife or other standard amputating blade, but likely the result of a hatchet or axe.
Incidentally, the alleged "FM" are indeed in the grid sectors Stephen described: D5 and E5. Unquestionably spurts of arterial blood that jetted from Kelly's neck at the onset of the Ripper's attack, not deliberately drawn initials.
Thanks for posting the pic, Stephen. Do you have the second view in King-Size as well?
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Mark Goeder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 3:31 pm: | |
How does arterial blood squirt on the wall and form an almost perfect " M "
Im am sure blood would continue to run down the wall instead of forming an " M ".
Mark |
RosemaryO'Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 10:18 pm: | |
Dear Mark,
Blood is a strange substance and its 'life' is a mystery, too. There are tales aplenty of of the remarkable miracles that human blood have effected
in the diverse cultures of our species. In this instance, I would agree with your observation re,
gravitational orientation.
But what I do find rather sinister is the almost complete lack of blood, arterial, or otherwise... so I am forced to consider the miraculas nature of Kelly's blood as being one possible explanation
in this regard.
Rosey :-)
|
John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:31 am: | |
Hi, Mark:
Arterial blood can jet from the carotid in many weird and wonderful ways. In this case, I think (and this is only my opinion) it spurted to Mary's right, splashing the wall in a jagged fashion, no doubt because she was thrashing and flailing for her life. Thus, it could just as well have formed a W or an N.
As to its not running down the wall, we have no way of knowing, as the final stroke of the "M" is hidding by the mattress. However, I feel fairly certain the blood did in fact run down the wall from both vertical splashes.
Still, I certainly understand why you (and many others) would be convinced the killer daubed an FM on that wall. It does look like those initials (especially since reading the diary). But I believe the blood jetted all over that wall and that the power of suggestion may make us see only the FM.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Daniel R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 8:21 am: | |
Would it be possible for someone to produce a closeup picture of what is considered to be the 'F M' initials?
I think I spot the 'M' but cannot for the life of me see the 'F'.
Thanks,
Dan |
John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:01 pm: | |
Dan:
The F is in cell D5, but runs into the line separating D5 from E5, just left of the M.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Priscilla M Steele
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:28 pm: | |
I found this photograph on the site, and was wondering when it was taken, and if there are anymore photos in exsistence of the site, and the room etc. Anyone know?  |
Robert Clack
Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 35
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 1:58 pm: | |
Hi Priscilla
The photo is from the movie "From Hell" and is not the genuine site.
The only photos I am aware of are the two of Mary Kelly's body, one of the outside of her room in Millers Court, taken on the day of her murder, and two of the entrance to Millers Court taken in 1928 by Leonard Matters, one of which is on the victorian london page (whitechapel then and now).
There is photo allegedly of Millers Court in "The Jack the Ripper Whitechapel Murders" but this hasn't been confirmed as genuine.
Rob
|
Clement Unger
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 10:12 am: | |
Great detailed photo,In this photo the rectangular object on the table looks too deep to be a newspaper, although when viwed in the other photo it looks more flattened. What i wonder is the box below the bed? |
John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 1:26 pm: | |
Clement:
The mess on the table is flesh from Kelly's thighs and abdominal wall, while the box (actually a large, wooden bucket) is a slop pail. The room had no lavatory.
Squalid? Yes. Disgusting? Most assuredly. But fairly typical for the time and place.
Incidentally, if the supposed "FM" initials written in blood on the wall were truly hand-painted initials, the police would have noted this. But there is absolutely NO MENTION whatever in any of the surviving police files, interviews with Abberline, etc., of any initials noticed. Thus, I firmly believe that what we take to be bloody initials are in fact bloodstains spurted onto the wall.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Valerie S.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 2:59 pm: | |
Hi all, new here a couple of observations I made. Is that a hand print on her left calf? And why does she only have one garter on? More importantly, why is there very little blood on the garter, just a smudge or two? given the close proximity to that gaping wound on her thigh, you'd think it'd be saturated in blood. It almost looks like someone put it on her leg after the slaying. |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 414
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 4:58 am: | |
G'day,
I still see the word Hart on the wall. Look at C5 and you can make out a large capital H, next to it I can see a large lower-case a, (mostly withing the square D5), r and t are fully within D5.
I can make out the FM in this photo, but have seen others where only Hart stands out to me.
LEANNE
|
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 437
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 6:54 pm: | |
G'day,
Can anyone else see this now that I've pointed out exactly where it is? Look at different versions of the same photograph and don't look for letters as small as FM.
LEANNE
|
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 438
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 7:02 pm: | |
G'day,
You could say that the right-hand verticle line of 'H', is just part of the square pannel thing, well then consider that it could be a lower-case 'h'.
I'm not ready to argue that this was put there by the killer, but it's spooky, considering her heart was taken.
LEANNE |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 301
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 5:16 am: | |
Hi Leanne
I can't make out anything in this picture, though sometimes I think I can see all or part of it in book photographs.
Robert |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 441
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 3:50 am: | |
G'day Robert,
It's not as dark as the 'FM', so maybe that's a problem. But since I spotted it, it appears to me in a lot of versions of this photo!
If it did exist, it couldn't have been a random splash of blood!
LEANNE |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 309
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 6:05 pm: | |
Sorry Leanne, I've just woken up! I've been looking at the small picture. Now I've remembered the huge picture and had another look at that, I think I can see something that looks a bit like "Hart", though whether it is actually a word, I'm not sure.
What do you make of the rectangles above the head of the bed?
Re the second photo, before I joined the Boards I'd just assumed that the police took down the partition and photographed her with the window in the background. But on the Boards the opinion seems to be that the bed was moved for the photo, and that it's the door behind. I suppose the police and doctors must have moved the bed at some point so as to see under it properly. But if the photo was taken after the bed was moved, then they must have moved the bedside table too in order to preserve the relative positions of the furniture.
Robert |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 444
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 6:26 am: | |
G'day Robert,
The 'Daily Telegraph', 13 November 1888, says that on the morning of Mary Kelly's inquest after the jury was sworn they were: 'conducted by Inspector Abberline to view the body...and subsequently the jury inspected the room in Miller's-court Dorset-street, where the murder was committed...The position of the two tables was not altered.' I'd say that the police moved things as little as possible, and definitely wouldn't have taken down any partitions.
I've always thought that it was the door showing at the back in the second photo. The photographer probably stood at the end of the bed, leaned right over to get a good angle (was this possible with a tripod?), showing how the door banged on the table once it was opened.
The rectangles above the head of the bed are just part of walls design.
LEANNE
|
Eric Smith
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 1:00 am: | |
What is under the table at the base of the bed? Looks like a pile of cloth to me. |
