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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 948
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 9:07 am: |       |
I am listing below some relevant data I have pulled from the 1871 census. There will be more to come!! :-)
1871 Census
MARTHA TABRAM
PRO REFERENCE: RG/10/606
Address:
20 Marshall Street, Southwark, London
Household:
Head:
Henry Tabram aged 35 born Whitechapel
Furniture Porter
Wife:
Martha Tabram aged 21 born Southwark, Surrey
Children:
Henry Tabram aged 10 born Southwark
Frederick Tabram aged 1 month born Southwark.
ELIZABETH STRIDE
PRO REFERENCE: RG/10/586
Address:
178 High Street, Poplar, London
Household:
Head:
John Stride aged 40 born Kent
Carpenter
Wife:
Elizabeth Stride aged 27 born Sweden
Visitor:
Charles Thew aged 15 born Portsmouth
MARY ANN NICHOLS
PRO REFERENCE: RG/10/617
Address:
131 Trafalgar Street, Lambeth, London
Household:
Father in Law:
Edward Walker aged 51 boen London
Blacksmith
Head:
William Nichols aged 30 born Oxford
Printer
Wife:
Mary A Nichols aged 25 born London
Children:
Edward Nichols aged 5 born London
Percy Nichols aged 3 born London
Alice Nichols aged 7 months born London
JOSEPH FLEMING
PRO REFERENCE: RG/10/489
Address:
61 Wellington Street, Bethnal Green, London
Household:
Head:
Richard Fleming aged 49 born Ramsgate, Kent
Plasterer
Wife:
Henrietta Fleming aged 49 born Camberwell, Surrey
Children:
Jane Fleming aged 14 born Hoxton
Servant
Joseph Fleming aged 12 born Bethnal Green
Mary Ann Fleming aged 8 born Bethnal Green
Jessie Fleming aged 3 born Bethnal Green
CATHERINE EDDOWES
PRO REFERENCE: RG/10/602
Address:
1 Queen Street, Southwark, London
Household:
Head:
Thomas Conway aged 36 born Mayo, Ireland
Pedlar
Wife:
Catherine Conway aged 28 born Wolverhampton, Stafford
Laundress
Children:
Catherine M. Conway aged 7 born Yarmouth, Norfolk
Thomas Conway aged 3 born Westminster
ANNIE CHAPMAN
PRO REFERENCE: RG/10/130
Address:
29 Montpelier Place, Westminster, London
Household:
Head:
Ruth Smith aged 51 born Hurstmonceux, Sussex
Widowed
Laundress
Daughter:
Georgeanna Smith aged 15 born Windsor, Berkshire
Marian R Smith aged 12 born Windsor, Berkshire
Visitors:
John Chapman aged 28 born Westminster, Middlesex
Eliza A Chapman aged 29 born Suffolk
Emily R Chapman aged 9 months born Westminster.
Certain questions are raised by this data, mainly regarding children e.g. Martha Tabram at 21 is listed with a 10 year old son! His age is right as I have verified it from 1881 data.
the Joseph Fleming listed is he who was listed on another thread as being by far the most likely to be Mary Kelly's Fleming. It is good to fill in some family details for him.
The entry for Eddowes allows us to fill in some details for Thomas Conway i.e. his age and place of birth.
Watch this space
Chris |
Chris Phillips
Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 219
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:12 am: | |
Many thanks for posting those census data. You certainly seem to have hit a rich vein!
Normally I would interpret the Tabram entry as indicating the younger Henry to be the son of the elder one (as head of the household), but presumably by a wife previous to Martha?
Chris Phillips
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Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 436
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:38 am: | |
Chris,
That was my first thought, too. But it is interesting that Henry, Jr. was born in Southwark as was Martha, while Henry, Sr. was born in Whitechapel. I think it must be a son from a previous wife/relationship, yet it doesn't look quite right.
Andy S. |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 808
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:57 am: | |
Andy,
I was just thinking that Henry was probably a child from a previous marriage of his fathers as he is 14 years older than Martha so it's quite likely.
Chris,
Is there anyway you can have a look on the 1861 census (if it's available) for Henry Tabram to see if he was married before Martha.
Sarah |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 438
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:04 pm: | |
Sarah,
Yeh, that's true. But it's peculiar that he is born in Southwark like his step-mother, when his father is born in Whitechapel. Both Martha and Henry, Jr. being born in Southwark suggested that they may be natural mother and son, though the relative ages makes this next to impossible. Apparently, the Whitechapel native Henry, Sr. had some other connection with Southwark before returning to Whitechapel. Not at all unlikely.
Andy S. |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 811
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:08 pm: | |
Well it wouldn't have been impossible as she would still probably have been able to give birth at 11 but I'd say it's not likely. It's probably just coincidence where they were born.
They were living in Southwark though so it may have been possible that Henry moved to Southwark with his wife, they have their son who is obviously then born in Southwark and then his wife dies or leaves and then he meets a local girl (Martha) and they marry.
Sarah
(Message edited by sarah on March 03, 2004) |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 949
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 2:17 pm: | |
To complete the info here is the 1881 data on Henry Jnr. Note here it gives a different place of birth.
1881:
Address:
14 River Terrace, Greenwich, Kent
Boarder:
Henry S Tabran (sic: this is the spelling in 1881 also given for Martha and her children)
Aged 20 born St. Georges, Surrey
General labourer
He was boarding in the house of George and Phoebe Wash and their eight children.
I'm attaching below the section from the 1871 showing the Tabram family with both Henrys (senior and junior) and their places of birth.
The other thing that intrigues me is who the young visitor, Charles Thew, was who was staying with the Strides!
All the best
Chris
|
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 950
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
I have searched for marriage(s) for Henry Tabram Snr and this stage can only find that between Henry Samuel Tabram and Martha White in the fourth quarter of 1869 at Newington
However, I have managed to locate Henry Jnr in the 1891 census. By that time he was married and his wife's name was Martha tabram also!
He was married in Woolwich during the first quarter of 1884 to Martha Ann M Wash - one of the children of the family he was boarding with in 1881.
By 1891 they are listed as follows:
1 Fearon Street, Greenwich, London
Head:
Henry Tabram aged 30 born Westminster
General labourer
Wife:
Martha Tabram aged 28 born Greenwich, Kent
In 1901 Henry (aged 40) and Martha (aged 38) are listed as still living in Greenwich but no children are listed.
In 1901 data Henry Jnr's place of birth is listed as Newington! It just shows how unreliable a piece of data this field in that over the four censuses from 1871 to 1901 he is given four different birthplaces!
Chris |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 951
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 2:40 pm: | |
Just to keep this thread up to date I have posted the 1871 on Roslyn D'Onston on his thread at
../4922/9964.html"#C6C6B5"> |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 952
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 2:57 pm: | |
Fred Abberline is listed in 1871 as follows:
Kentish Town Road Police Station
Frederick Abberline aged 28
Police Sergeant
Widowed
Born Blandford
Indicdentally, his surname is listed in the index as Abbertone!
Chris |
Natalie Severn
Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 373
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 4:21 pm: | |
Fascinating information Chris.I too wonder who this chap may be visiting them.
Best Natalie |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 114
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 5:51 pm: | |
Great work Chris to find Catherine Eddowes elusive 1871 census entry. Thomas Conway's military record reveals that he was born at Kilgever near Mayo.
Her daughter Annie was born Catherine Annie as the census confirms. Two years after the census their next child Alfred George Conway was born in Southwark.
I hope Chris that you can eventually track down the other elusive census years for Mary Ann Nichols (1861), and Annie Chapman (1841?,1851 and 1861). |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 953
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 6:33 pm: | |
Hi Neal
Many thanks - I'm attaching the census entries for the Conways from 1871 in case you'd like to see (these spread over two census sheets)
All the best
Chris
  |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 954
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 6:37 pm: | |
Heal
Can you clear up one point for me? The son that was born to th conways in 1868- the A-Z says he was named George, the 1871 census says he was Thomas.
Can you throw any light on this?
Many thanks
Chris
|
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 115
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 8:00 am: | |
Thanks for the census entry Chris,
Although, I never found a birth certificate for their eldest son he is recorded on 1881, 1901, and now the 1871 census as Thomas Conway, and also his death certificate in 1903 when he died in Chelsea aged 36.
His brother was born Alfred George Conway in 1873 at the Mint Street Workhouse that backed on to Queen Street in Southwark. He was called George on the 1881 census.
If they can be found on the 1891 census, I would expect Thomas and his two sons to be together possibly in Westmister, but I'm not certain as to what happened to Alfred George? Their father died in 1908.
Thanks again Chris. |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 957
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 12:28 pm: | |
Heal
I am reasonably certain I have found Thomas Conway the younger (born 1868) in the 1891 census.
He is listed as a night watchman in a lodging house at 12-14 Lombard Street, St George The Martyr, London. the mangers of the lodging house were Thomas and Elizabeth Groves.
His details are listed as follows:
Thomas Conway
Servant
Single
Age 24
Night Watchman Lodging House
Born Westminster London
Thomas Snr is listed living with his other son at 9 Parker Street, Westminster as follows:
Head:
Thomas Conway
Widower
Age very hard to read but looks like 53
Hawker
Born Westport, Ireland
Son:
George Conway
Single
Age 17
General labourer
Born Southwark
I have to find any trace of the daughter, Catherine M Conway but will carry on looking:-)
Chris
|
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 116
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 4:20 pm: | |
Excellent Chris!
Daughter Annie Phillips (previously Catherine Annie Conway) was at 13 Dix's Place, Bermondsey, òn the 1891 census with husband Louis Phillips and their children.
I would say that the census enumerator must have written down the wrong initial 'M' for her middle name in 1871 because her middle name on her birth certificate for Yarmouth in 1863 was definately Ann.
Thanks again Chris |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 118
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 5:11 pm: | |
Chris,
Did you note which address George Conway was living at in Southwark for 1891?
Also, sorry to go on, but are the indexes you are using for the 1871 census and 1891 census freely available because there are just a few mysteries remaining concerning Annie Chapman's family. They are:
Where was "Annie Georgina Chapman" single, aged 17 or 18 for the "1891 census" probably in London, but could be Berkshire or Surrey? She was Annie's daughter.
Where was "Emily (Latitia) Smith" single, aged 27 for the "1871 census" and single? aged 47 for the "1891 census" probably London? She was Annie's sister.
And "Fountain or Fontain Smith" for the 1891 census, married to Edith, aged 30. It could be though, that Fountain and his family were in the USA in 1891 but I'm not certain? |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 960
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 7:34 pm: | |
Hi Neal
George Conway was living with his father at 9 Parker Street in 1891
I will check out the other bits for you asap tomorrow and let you know
All the best
Chris
|
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 119
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 7:10 am: | |
Hi Chris,
Sorry I misread the item above. George was living with his father in Westminster, and born at Southwark. Thanks.
Will await your further finds with great interest.
All the best
Neal |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1044
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:25 pm: | |
Have found the 1871 entry for Annie Elizabeth Crook of Royal conspiracy fame
9 Upper Rathbone Place, Marylebone, London
Head:
William Crook aged 40 born Eaton, Bucks
Pianoforte finisher
Wife:
Annie Crook aged 32 born Berwick on Tweed
Children:
Annie E Crook aged 8 born London
Alice Crook aged 2 born St Pancras, Middlesex
Catherine Crook aged 7 months born Marylebone
In 1881 the family were at 2 Rose Street and Ennie Elizabeth is wrongly noted in the index as Annie J
2 Rose Street, Middlesex
Head:
William Crook aged 50 born Eton, Buckingham
Pianoforte finisher
Wife:
Sarah A Crook aged 42 born Scotland
(from aged and place of birth, this is the same as the Annie Crook of 1971)
Children:
Annie J Crook aged 18 born London
General domestic servant
Alice Crook aged 12 born London
I can find no trace of the third daughter, Catherine, who may have died between 1871 and 1881.
In 1891 census, William Crook's aged mother and siblings are listed as living at 26 High Street, Eton.
Head:
Elizabeth Crook aged 87 - widowed
Born Witton, Middlesex
Living on own means
Children:
Isabella J Crook aged 52 born Eton
William A Crook aged 44 born Eton
Clerk
Servant:
Ellan Evans aged 38 born Reading
Another possible son of Elizabeth and sibling of William Crook is listed a few doors away:
28 High Street, Eton:
Head:
John Crook aged 49 born Eton - Decorator
Wife:
Sarah S Crook aged 47 born Shipton
|
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1045
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:26 pm: | |
Have found the 1871 entry for Annie Elizabeth Crook of Royal conspiracy fame
9 Upper Rathbone Place, Marylebone, London
Head:
William Crook aged 40 born Eaton, Bucks
Pianoforte finisher
Wife:
Annie Crook aged 32 born Berwick on Tweed
Children:
Annie E Crook aged 8 born London
Alice Crook aged 2 born St Pancras, Middlesex
Catherine Crook aged 7 months born Marylebone
In 1881 the family were at 2 Rose Street and Ennie Elizabeth is wrongly noted in the index as Annie J
2 Rose Street, Middlesex
Head:
William Crook aged 50 born Eton, Buckingham
Pianoforte finisher
Wife:
Sarah A Crook aged 42 born Scotland
(from aged and place of birth, this is the same as the Annie Crook of 1971)
Children:
Annie J Crook aged 18 born London
General domestic servant
Alice Crook aged 12 born London
I can find no trace of the third daughter, Catherine, who may have died between 1871 and 1881.
In 1891 census, William Crook's aged mother and siblings are listed as living at 26 High Street, Eton.
Head:
Elizabeth Crook aged 87 - widowed
Born Witton, Middlesex
Living on own means
Children:
Isabella J Crook aged 52 born Eton
William A Crook aged 44 born Eton
Clerk
Servant:
Ellan Evans aged 38 born Reading
Another possible son of Elizabeth and sibling of William Crook is listed a few doors away:
28 High Street, Eton:
Head:
John Crook aged 49 born Eton - Decorator
Wife:
Sarah S Crook aged 47 born Shipton
|
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 9:30 am: | |
Hi Neal
I am just wondering if this question posted from you in the above thread was ever answered, as I can't find it on the boards.
>>Where was "Annie Georgina Chapman" single, aged 17 or 18 for the "1891 census" probably in London, but could be Berkshire or Surrey? She was Annie's daughter.
Where was "Emily (Latitia) Smith" single, aged 27 for the "1871 census" and single? aged 47 for the "1891 census" probably London? She was Annie's sister.<<
I have the 1891 entry for these two ladies if you haven't already seen it by now, or anyone else who may be interested.
regards
Debra |
|
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