| Author |
Message |
    
Fiona Rule
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 1:57 pm: |       |
Hi - I have produced a snapshot of Dorset Street in 1888 showing what type of properties lined the road, who owned them, who leased them and what (where possible), they were used for. The snapshot forms part of a much wider project on Spitalfields. I hope its of interest to Casebook users:
No. 1 Dorset Street: New building (built 1887) owned by W E Jones & Sons of Stepney Station and leased to David Smith.
No. 2: 3-storey house owned by James Ince and let as furnished rooms with shop space on ground floor.
Nos. 3 - 4: 3-storey houses owned by D Abrahams and let as furnished rooms.
No. 5: 3-storey house, shop and stables owned by E & W Bailey and let as furnished rooms.
No. 6: 3-storey house and stables owned by E & W Bailey and let as furnished rooms.
No. 7: 3-storey house and shop owned by W & E Bailey and let to Barnett Price, grocer (formerly a tailor).
No. 8: 4-storey warehouse owned by J Armitage and leased to M Levy.
Nos.9 - 10: Edinburgh Chambers, owned by Thomas & George Oyler and operating as a common lodging house.
Nos. 11 - 12: Common Lodging House owned by M A Holmes and leased to John McCarthy.
No. 13: 4-storey house and stables owned by William Roach of Spitalfields Market and let as furnished rooms.
No. 14: Furnished rooms owned by Lewis White and leased to William Crossingham.
No. 15: Common Lodging House for 27 lodgers owned by Lewis White of Middlesex Street and leased to William Crossingham.
Nos. 16 - 19: Commercial Street Chambers. Owned by Robert Kersey of Lee and leased by William Crossingham as a Common Lodging House.
No. 20 & 20A: 5-storey house with basement owned by W Abrahams (relation of previously mentioned D Abrahams) and leased to William Crossingham (who also resided there) as a Common Lodging House.
Nos. 21 - 22: Ringer's Buildings.
Nos. 23 - 25: Stables and lofts owned by Frederick and Samuel Ball of Brixton Hill and leased out (I believe one of the stables was John McCarthy's "shed".)
No. 26: 3-storey house owned by M Barnett and leased to John McCarthy.
No. 27: 3-storey house and shop owned by M Barnett and leased to John McCarthy (along with Miller's Court.) Shop is a chandler's shop run by McCarthy.
Nos. 28 - 29: Common Lodging House owned by E Zuccani and leased to R Wagstaff. Known as McQueen's after previous lessee.
No. 30: Huge Common Lodging House accommodating 117 people owned by Roland Hill of Bethnal Green Road and leased to John McCarthy. Four storeys plus basement.
No. 31: 3-storey house and stables owned and occupied by William Shepherd plus lodgers.
No. 32: The Blue Coat Boy public house owned by H Todd.
No. 33: 4-storey Common Lodging House owned by J Green. Makeshift shop space on ground floor. Rest of building let as furnished rooms.
No.34: House owned by J Green and let as furnished rooms.
No. 35: Common Lodging House owned by J Green and leased to William Crossingham (who opened it as a lodging house in 1887.)
No. 36: 4-storey house and shop owned by C Harewood/Howard. Alfred Coates' Chandler's Shop on ground floor.
No. 37: House owned by John McCarthy and let as furnished rooms (one of the tenants is Thomas Bowyer.)
No. 38: House owned by John McCarthy and let as furnished rooms.
No. 39: House owned by John McCarthy and leased to Brook's Coal Dealership.
Most of the houses mentioned above were at least 100 years old in 1888. They were mostly originally built for silk weavers, so had a mansard roof and an attic with large windows. Only one (No.20) seems to have a basement. Kind regards, Fiona.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1924
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
Thanks for posting that research, Fiona. It's great to find out more about Dorset St.
I've a feeling the shed was at No. 26, but I might be wrong.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 230
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 1:46 pm: | |
yes thanks a lot Fiona-I"ve often wondered what Dorset street was like and your research is really interesting.John McCarthy seems to have been a bit of a Rackman I"m beginning to think.Natalie |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 111
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 3:22 pm: | |
Hi Fiona,
Was 30 Dorset Street also leased by John McCarthy two years before 1888 when Annie Chapman was lodging there?
Thanks, and great research.
Neal |
Donald Souden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Supe
Post Number: 123
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 4:34 pm: | |
Fiona,
Great job! I would like to use a portion of your research for a forthcoming article. Could you please contact me (email information in my profile) in regard to that. Thank you.
Don. |
Scott Nelson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 7:54 pm: | |
Speaking of no. 30 Dorset Street, Annie Chapman's former lodgings: the Lunatics in Asylums Register shows that an Isaac Cohen, aged 31, was admitted from there to Colney Hatch on December 12, 1890 and died in the asylum on June 21, 1891. |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 84
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 4:34 am: | |
Hi All,
Carrying Fiona's post slightly further, we found during our research that many properties in the Whitechapel area were ownwed by the Bowes-Lyon family.
Yes, that's right. The grandfather and father of the Queen Mother.
The voting rights at the time were only given to owners of property in the ward where they were. So, just think how many votes that family had when it came to election time.
The saying rings true: 'The rich get richer on the backs of the poor'.
A. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 616
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 4:53 am: | |
Hi,
What have Whitechapel, and Bowes-lyon, got in common?.
Answer Madness.
There were a lot of insane people , living in that area We obvious know one.
I know of at least two members of that elite family, that were confirmed as insane, two females, that were confined to Earlswood mental asylum[ near Redhill] I believe they were two of the queen mothers cousins, one of them died not so many years ago.
So now we have a connection to upper class blood, and whitechapel, and madness.
I can see theorists, seeing a good book somewhere.
Richard. |
Fiona Rule
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 5:22 am: | |
Hi - In response to Neal: John McCarthy took over the common lodging house at No. 30 Dorset Street on the 13th March 1886. Kind regards, Fiona.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1933
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:33 am: | |
I must say, I'm still mystified by No.26. It was a 3 storey house, but we only seem to know of two people living in it at the time of Kelly's murder - Prater, and Kelly herself!
Robert |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 112
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
Thanks Fiona,
I think it likely that Chapman was there at March 1886, and perhaps adds a bit more credence to a newspaper report in 1888 that Chapman and Kelly knew one another?
Maybe Chapman was acquainted with McCarthy?
Thanks once again.
Kind regards
Neal |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 140
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 2:02 pm: | |
Hi Fiona,
I very much enjoyed your post outlineing who lived were, and who owned what in Dorset Street. Absolutely facinating, and may I just ask were you obtain the information regarding ownership and leases, as this may help me with other research I have going on at the moment.
Regards,
John Savage |
Fiona Rule
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 5:28 pm: | |
Hi - In response to John: In order to find out details of property ownership and lessees, you usually have to consult a wide variety of sources and piece the information together. For this particular research, I looked at title deeds, Land Registry documents, fire and insurance surveys, lodging house registers, wills and probate inventories. One of the most interesting resources in this field is the 1910 Valuation Survey. If you can find the property in question (not all were surveyed) it can yield a lot of information including information on what the property looked like plus details of ownership and what the building was used for. Film of the Vaulation Survey can be found at the PRO in Kew.
The PRO have published a book which you may find very useful. Its called "Tracing The History of Your House" by Nick Barrett and it lists most of the major sources you can consult when researching in this field.
Hope this helps! Kind regards - Fiona
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John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 141
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 5:24 pm: | |
Hi Fiona,
That is very helpful indeed. Tracing ownership of property is something I have found difficult to do. I must admit that I had never heard of the 1910 Valuation Survey, but think it might come in useful.
Many thanks for your help.
John Savage |
Andrew Gable
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 11:07 pm: | |
I wonder if this M. Barnett who owned 26 Dorset Street was any relation to Joe...
Not that I'm one of those who thinks he was Jack. |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1166
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 8:22 am: | |
This M.Barnett information is interesting. I knew it rang a bell and I have looked through my notes and found what it brought to mind. In the 1871 listing for 27 Dorset Street there is an M. Barnett listed as one of the residents there but it is very odd. There is no relationship to any obvious head of household but she is a 14 year old girl called Mariam Barnett. The only other Barnett listed there is a newly born female child whose name is very difficult to read but looks to be Liza Barnett or something similar. However the oddest thing is that this 14 year old girl apparently living alone with a new born baby is listed under profession as "manager of Chandler's Shop"!
The full listing for 27 Dorset Street for 1871 is as follows by household:
Head:
Sarah Phillips aged 44 born Poland - Washerwoman
Widow
Children:
Hamma (?) aged 10 - Coat maker
Betsy aged 16 - Coat maker
Mary aged 14 - Coat maker
All children born in London
Head:
Abraham Coplin aged 28 born Poland - Book finisher
Wife:
Unnamed aged 27 born Poland
Head:
Abraham Richardson aged 26 born Poland - Finisher
Wife:
Sarah Richardson aged 23 born Poland
Child:
Myer (Female) aged 2 born Poland
Mariam Barnett aged 14 born London - Manager Chandler's Shop
Liza(?) Barnett aged 0 born London
Head:
Myers Kay aged 30 born Poland - Boot finisher
Wife;
Annie Kay aged 26 born Poland
Brother:
Abraham Kay aged 20 born Poland - Coat presser
The part including the Barnetts is below:
The most obvious interpretation is that Mariam had somehow at her tender age become the mother of a newly born child and was living alone. However, in that case, how on earth could she be the manager of the Chandler's shop? We must remember that the census is only a listing of the people who were in the house on that day (2nd April 1871) and I think it much more likely that the Barnett who owned the property was probably a parent of hers who was temporarily absent and she was minding the shop.
Of course by 1888 she may have inherited the premises so it is possible that the owner listed in 1888 as M.Barnett was Mariam.
All the best
Chris
(Message edited by Chris on April 19, 2004) |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1167
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 8:30 am: | |
Re the above:
below is an enlarged section fo the two Barnett names to see if anyone can make any more sense of the young child's name
Chris
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Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 731
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 10:28 am: | |
Hi, folks
Andrew Gable wondered:
"I wonder if this M. Barnett who owned 26 Dorset Street was any relation to Joe..."
I don't think so. In fact, Barnett was a common Jewish surname and I don't believe Joe was Jewish. I suspect that M. Barnett was Jewish but some cross-checking will be needed to confirm the fact.
Best regards
Chris George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info/ |
