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  | Archive through March 25, 2004 | Glenn L Andersson | 25 | 1 | 3-25-04 10:55 am |
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Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:20 am: |       |
Apparently the reason why Sickert confessed to the Ripper element of his story being 'a whopping great fib' was to protect the reputation of his Father (Walter Sickert). Interestingly despite this he never fully ditched the Ripper aspect of his genealogy collaborating throughout the 80s with Melvin Fairclough. Their book, 'The Ripper and the Royals' appeared in 1991. Unfortunately this piece, tellingly I think, has little to do with the Ripper and more to do with Mr. Sickert's alleged Royal lineage. It does however make use of Abberline's diaries (probably bogus) and John Netley's diary (apparently genuine). There may be something in Sickert's alleged familial claims, but his information is clearly confused. One thing I'm certain of though, Jack the Ripper has nothing to do with Sickert, Royalty or Freemasons. |
Neale Carter
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ncarter
Post Number: 53
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 7:53 am: | |
Hi all,
As Glenn I think mentions above Depp as Abberline is way too young. Abberline was 45 in 1888 in a time when life expectancy was much less than today, well into middle age. Also, I believe if Mary Kelly really looked like Heather Graham it's unlikely she would be a penniless prostitute in the East End. Hollywood is never one to let historical accuracy get in the way of a good story. I must agree this is a quite entertaining film though and must be seen as being just that.
The portrayal of Gull is also interesting from the aspect of showing someone transforming from a "normal" state to a killing mode. Although Gull is almost ludicrous as a suspect, whoever was JTR may well have undergone such transformations. Not so much in the theatrical Jekyll & Hyde style of a struggle between the evil and non-evil personalities but it is hard to imagine a cool, calculating, emotionally level person committing the carnage at Millers Court for example. I imagine the killer to have entered some heightened state of awareness, excitement, control when committing the murders but they must have been able to resume some mode of normality between episodes to not put themselves under suspicion.
The darkening of Gull's eyes and his sense of God-like power resemble my impression of JTR.
Regards
Neale
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Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 490
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 8:54 am: | |
I do not know why people continue to insist that Johnny Depp was wayyyy too young to play Abberline. He was 38! That is not a momentous generarion gap. 38 to 45 is not a huge difference.
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 10:43 am: | |
Thank you, Ally. You see, I am actually 38 myself! So I bow my head in deepest gratitude.
Now, many males actually looked several years older than they were during the 19th century. So it's not really a question of age in itself, but how old or young you look. From the sketch we have of Abberline, he looked way older than his 45, and Johnny Depp does not in my view look as 38 and certainly nothing like Abberline's 45.
Abberline was stout, had large whiskers and probably looked like 55 instead of 45.
So what we are dealing with here is historical accuracy, which never have been Hollywood's strongest side -- regardless if they have great researchers to help them or not. It is all about box offices, nothing else.
That being said, I think Depp is a respectable actor with a great charisma -- I think they could have gotten around the problem by putting some fake whiskers on him and giving him a attachable belly to go with it. But I assume, Hollywood didn't want to risk putting his female fans off.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Ryan P
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 10:11 am: | |
I didn't find the film very accuret, except for the charectars and the events. I do not believe for one minute that that prince person or whoever he was, was the ripper. That was the one of the many dissapointing things about the film. There simply isn't enough evidence to convince me that he was the ripper. If anyone, they should have made James Maybrick the ripper, because that is the person who i, and thousands of other people believe he is. Also, Jack the ripper in the from hell film, was way to typical and obviose to be the ripper. I think the film is missleading, and a bit of an insult for ripperoligists, and the general facts of the ripper case. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 4:35 pm: | |
No one in their right mind believes in the Royal Conspiracy theory or the Prince today, Ryan. That is not the point. The point is that Hollywood chooses this approach because it's the most popular part of Ripper mythology. We all know it isn't accurate and that it's misleading.
But that's Hollywood for you.
Then I don't agree with you regarding Maybrick, but that's another story...
There are thousand of others as well that don't believe in him or favours another one, or -- like me -- favours none of the known suspects.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 492
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 7:55 am: | |
Glen,
I agree that Johnny doesn't look 40 and could accept that they should have picked someone more "seasoned looking" to play Abberline. I just dislike comments about him being too young to play him, when indeed, he was not too young, he just looks too young.
Ryan,
Talk about an insult to Ripperologists and the facts of the case-- A film with Maybrick as the Ripper would certainly be that.
Cheers,
Ally
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 9:47 am: | |
Ally,
I perfectly agree on everything in your last post. Quite right.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 721
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 3:07 pm: | |
Hi, Ally and Glenn
Yes but we can expect Hollywood to rip up the true facts of the case. 
Chris |
Neale Carter
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ncarter
Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 10:35 pm: | |
Yes Ally - no offense meant to Johnny Depp at all.
Maybe Robbie Coltrane with whiskers would have been better. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1507
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 5:53 am: | |
Uuuuh, Chris...
Beautiful... 
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 228
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 8:28 am: | |
I think Johnny Depp was very good in the movie. The only thing that might have helped is if they actually gave him Abberline's mutton chops, and perhaps shaved the front of his hairline to make him appear more balding. A bit like they did in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, except not quite as extreme.
The new issue of the Ripperologist has an illustration of Abberline on the first page that could very well be Johnny Depp in character.
-K |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 272
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 1:55 pm: | |
I too thought Depp was brilliant in the movie. I think the movies vision of Victorian times was fantastic. I only wish it could have been more believable and true to life than that ridiculous Royal Conspiracy / Masonic Theory.
Mikey |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:37 am: | |
Yaknow, it seems kind of strange to be complaining that the character of Abberline looked more like a movie star than the real life pudgy middle aged guy he was when the character was also a psychic in love with Mary Jane Kelly (who escaped) and who discovered a royal Masonic plot, blah blah blah blah... I mean, come on, I'd rather they change the look of one of the characters (someone, I might add, that nobody but the devoted followers of the case even have a clue what he looked like) than muck around with the actual facts of the case.
It's like watching a movie in which Abe Lincoln wrestles John Wilkes Booth to the ground, knocks him senseless, shoots 50 ninjas waiting in the wings to get him, then impersonates Mark Twain and leaves, letting the world think he had died... and then complaining about whether Lincoln had a beard or not at that point in his life and boy they should have gotten that part right. |
Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 652
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 2:58 pm: | |
Since the identity of the ripper is still unknown
and the Royal conspiracy/ Masonic link is no more farfetched in my view Why not focus it on these as suspects?After all Stowell was a respected Doctor and friend of Gull"s son in law.He may well have had "inside" information about Prince Albert.Thirty years later WE may know how very unlikely it is that he was the ripper but he may well have "slummed" it out of curiosity and got involved in visits ti Whitechapel that he later talked about inappropriately.
But as far as films go I really enjoyed it.I thought Johnny Depp was brilliant as the opium addicted sleuth---but then he is second to none for me is Johnny-I can watch him in anything.
Natalie |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 279
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 4:24 pm: | |
Nats,
I love Johhny Depp as well. I will watch anything he does. The only time I have been disappointed in him is, while, I thought his character in Pirates of the Caribean was wonderful, I did think he played it way too fem. Ya know, girly. I like my men a little more butch.
Mikey |
Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 656
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 4:44 pm: | |
Hi Mikey,I can see that actually.In Pirates of the Caribbean he was great though.I read that he used Keith Richards as a role model.Well Keith has looked very razzled bless him since he was about twenty five and he"s now sixty or more.But wonderfully dark and Byronic he definitely is.And amazingly able to take the P*ss out of himself.Keith ,according to Marianne Faithfull in her autobiography implied they all had a strong streak of "fem" including Mick Jagger,so maybe thats what Johnny can relate to.He"s kinda "poetic" somehow and lovely mmmmmm!
Nats |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 233
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 5:05 pm: | |
Dan,
"It's like watching a movie in which Abe Lincoln wrestles John Wilkes Booth to the ground, knocks him senseless, shoots 50 ninjas waiting in the wings to get him, then impersonates Mark Twain and leaves, letting the world think he had died..."
That sounds like a fantastic idea for a movie!! You should write it up and send it off. can't be worse than "the Girl Next Door" or either of the Matrix sequals.
-K |
Jason Scott Mullins
Inspector
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 190
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 11:36 am: | |
Oh, there are a few things that are worse than the revolutions. Not many though. Most of which involve a car battery, some cables and bare nether regions.
I _was_ happy to see that it was indeed a horrible piece of celluloid, because I foolishly thought they had (thankfully) killed off the franchise, thus there would be no attempted repeat of something as anti-orgasmic as revolutions.
I however, was wrong:
http://thematrixonline.warnerbros.com/web/index.jsp
Oh, and sense I've learn not to let an opportunity like this pass me by (Thanks Ally):
David, take the blue pill. You're not the one.
crix0r |
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