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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 626
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 3:44 pm: | 
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Maybe its because I'm a Mom. Maybe I'm totally wrong. But I read yet another description of what makes an SK yesterday and I wasn't happy.
The Mother is to blame. She is controlling, abusive and domineering. The Dad is distant or absent or uninvolved. We are left to assume that he got that way because Mom henpecked him.
How do we know that SKs grow up in homes like this? Why, because they tell us so. SKs who have been psychologized, interviewed and surveyed all say the same thing. "It was Mom who messed me up." The rules about psychopaths always blaming their misdeeds on others don't apply here. Mom is the culprit.
Is it just possible that these Moms were a lot stricter with their kids because they were already showing some tendencies that scared their Mothers to death?
It is always fashionable to blame Mom for everything. A generation ago autism was blamed on "cold, distant, unaffectionate mothers" by an authority named Bruno Bettelheim. A whole generation of Moms lived with awful guilt. Some of them were even divorced by their husbands. Now we know the theory is wrong.
I'm willing to concede that these Moms were probably extremely strict. But we tend to parent according to the needs of the child. Some children are very agreeable and compliant. Such children can be trusted with more leeway and a more lenient approach.
When a Mother senses that she has a little rebel on her hands, especially one who sets fires and tortures animals she's bound to worry, and that worry will more often than not cause her to clamp down. Lets not confuse cause and effect. |
Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 4:32 pm: |
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Diana,
I am a mother also. But I feel there is a big difference between just being strict vs. being controlling, abusive and domineering. Children need a firm hand in the formative years, but when you abuse the "job" you have as a mother it then becomes a sick and unhealthy way to raise a child. It is then a dysfunctional family, which does no good to the people involved.
Having said that, I know there is a tendency to blame MOM for everything, it can be a very thankless job. We all do the best we can do and hope we don't screw up too badly.
Cheers,
Carolyn 
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Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 686
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 4:38 pm: |
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Hi Diana,
I think the whole blame the mothers thing is just a holdover from all the Freudians having a big influence on everyone's thinking for so long. Now that they are largely dying off without that many replacements and the field is more focused on studies and trying to find evidence instead of just coming up with whatever sounds good to them, I think some of those tendencies to blame the mother will go away.
I do think mothers can cause a lot of harm or good for their kids, but I've not been convinced that it is a major relationship to the formation of serial killers. I know Jeffrey Dahmer's mother was all upset about the whole idea that many people would just unthinkingly blame her, and while she may not have been the best parent she didn't seem to me to be any worse than a sizable percentage of other mothers out there, who incidentally didn't have serial killers for children.
I've also seen (far too many) people who were raised in absolutely hellish parental environments and end up not all that different from anyone else. There's obviously a lot more that going on.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 418
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 5:29 pm: |
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One "fortunate" thing regarding serial killers is that despite the different reasons [ bad parent[s]..environment...ego...power and control issues..] for their acts, they usually have common traits to look for. Firestarting..animal abuse...those things.
Ain't no handbook that comes with this life,thats for sure.
How Brown
Donston1888@aol.com
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Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 687
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 6:40 pm: |
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Hi Howard,
Actually, I would question the whole triad (animal cruelty, pyromania, bedwetting) thing too. I don't believe those are as common as some would have us believe.
Most of our commonly held notions about serial killers were established back when there were very limited statistics to work off of and arguably a very unrepresentative sample (the ones who got caught before DNA testing, etc., were common) to work from.
It also doesn't help that many serial killers have read up on the classical definitions and have slanted their histories to try to fit in or to shift the blame off of themselves. When killers these days blame their mothers, porn, violence on TV or what-have-you they are typically just running with what the person interviewing them wants to hear.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
Profile Email Dissertations Website
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Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 419
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 7:38 pm: |
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Dan...
Thats true. Thats one reason,in another entirely different vein,that I am in favor of putting them to sleep...forever and quickly...without studying them.
All the cop-outs and gimmicks have been heard.
I agree wholeheartedly with Diana and Carolyn that being a Mom [or Dad] and especially a single one... is a crap-shoot at times. Its never been harder to be a successful parent.
Keep the faith ladies...your young 'uns will probably turn out to be good 'uns.
How Brown
Donston1888@aol.com
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Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 113
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 8:16 pm: |
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Howard,
My young'un is now 31. Thank you for your vote of confidence. As far as I know she is not a serial killer (parents are always the last to know) Ha! Seriously, I am very proud of her and her accomplishments.
And yes, there "ain't no handbook that comes with life" You hang on by the seat of your pants.
Cheers,
Carolyn
P.S. Dan, I do agree that they do try to shift the blame off themselves. What is easier than blaming Mommie for your screw ups? |
Jane Coram
Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 434
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: |
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Hi All,
I have to say that I do think that it is a cop out to blame the Mum's.
Of course early enviroment must play some part, but it is far more complex than that, head traumas, heavy metal in the body, genetic brain malfunction, abuse from outside the family........and sometimes nothing at all.
I think that they may well just be feeding the authorities what they want to hear. It makes it nice and tidy.
Psychopaths particularly are manipulative enough to play the psychologists for all they are worth, and if they expect Mum to be the culprit, then they make it so.
Of course the maternal influence could be a contributing factor, but I think that it is not nearly so great a part as they have suggested over the years. As Carolyn says, who better to blame for their screw ups?
Jane
xxxxxx
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2463
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 10:14 am: |
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maybe there is a little further for feminism to go yet?
Jenni
"Stay away from that trap door,
Cos' there's somethin' down there"
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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 627
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 8:30 pm: |
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I think if I had a kid who was setting fires and torturing small animals and other smaller kids, I would be very worried.
I would not be so upset about the bedwetting because a lot of kids do that.
I would increase the amount of supervision, check on his activities more. If that is being controlling, so be it.
When I caught him doing those things he would be punished, probably spanked (I'm a bit old fashioned).
I don't equate a spanking with abuse. I know this is a hotbutton subject and likely to stir up a string of posts, but I'm just trying to say that the behavior of the child is going to influence the parenting of the Mom.
When we read that these Moms were controlling and abusive, I wonder if we should substitute conscientiously supervising, and disciplining. Remember we are being asked to view this through the eyes of the culprit, a psychopath no less. |
Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 117
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 9:06 pm: |
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Diana,
I agree with what you are saying, different types of behavior problems need different actions. And the type of supervision you seem to be talking about is "healthy".
But when I think of controlling and abusive, I think more in terms of "Mommy Dearest", or the mother in "Silence of the Lambs", that is the sick controlling type of mother. That is so much more than what you are talking about.
In the eyes of the culprit, I agree with what Mr. Norder said,
"they have read up...try to shift the blame off themselves".
Many times I feel it is nothing more than conscientiously supervising and disciplining, twisted to suit the needs of the culprit. BUT there are many examples where the mother is sick, and abusing, both physically and mentally. They suck the very soul out of their children. Those are the ones who create the serial killers and damage their children beyond repair.
Just my humble opinion,
Carolyn 
(Message edited by carolyn on May 24, 2005) |
Jane Coram
Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 435
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 10:58 pm: |
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Hi All,
I do think that the blame has been unfairly shifted onto mothers in many cases, but I do agree with Carolyn there are mothers who are guilty of horrendous psychological damage to their children.
I think that there are actually two 'danger' zones that might lead to a child being psycholocically damaged to the point where they might turn into abusers or even killers.
The first is the controlling 'monster' mother which seems to be the type most culpable if indeed they are to blame.
The other type I think is possibly even more dangerous. That is the mother that is so cloyingly overprotective and sentimental and sugary that the child has no respect whatsoever for her and thus turns that hatred towards all women.
I do actually know of two instances personally where the mother was so sickingly sweet and permissive to her boys that there have been serious problems as a direct result.
One is adult and a true woman hater, with very worrying tendencies that could possibly turn into something far worse; the other is still a child, but I can actually see the makings of a psychopath there and he really makes me shiver when he looks at me. He calls his mother 'that woman' or 'SHE' with a look of his face that would freeze water.
To be fair the two mothers in question are very extreme cases, allowing the children to abuse her and thinking that is the normal way to treat women.
I still think though that it is only the foundation of the problem and that something else must be present to trigger the desire to kill in these men. It is far too simple just to blame it on Mum.
Love Jane ( who is a mum of a wonderful 25 year old daughter that I adore!)
xxxxxxx |
Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 119
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 11:33 pm: |
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Jane,
I am total agreement with what you say. And yes I also know some examples personally, I'm sorry to say.
Not sure what the trigger is, but I know what you mean. The examples that I know are so different, not sure what makes the difference.
Love, 
Carolyn |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2470
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:11 am: |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4575551.stm
the sociology student in me hates this idea. But it seemed to remind me of this thread in some ways!
Jenni
"Stay away from that trap door,
Cos' there's somethin' down there"
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Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 121
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 6:39 am: |
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Jenni,
That article could very well be the reason for the differences. Or as Jane said the "trigger".
There has to be something more than just "mother"... There are many abused children that never become criminals they are able to function quite well in society, without killing anyone. Their own personal damage would be a completely different matter, but they are not out killing.
You can put two different children in basically the same situation and have two completely different outcomes. I do feel genes do have something to do with development. Some I feel are predisposed to certain personality traits.
Just my humble opinion...
Cheers,
Carolyn |
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