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Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 129
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 3:12 pm: |       |
Hey Guys,
I was watching a crime show the other night and it talked about psychics helping to solve crimes.
I was wondering if a serious psychic has ever been used in the Ripper crimes? I know it might sound far-fetched, but, we are running out of methods.
Paul |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1559
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 3:33 pm: | |
Hey Paul,
As far as I know, the only psychic involved in the Ripper investigation would have been Lees, but besides that I haven't heard about anything in that direction.
Psychic mediums -- whatever one feels about them and their methods -- are quite hard to use in such old cases as this. I believe it is a controversial method to apply in police matters anyway. I have myself used it once with very good results, but generally speaking, it is rather hard to apply, since it doesen't deliver as exact information as one thinks. And in cases that are over one hundred years old, it is somewhat of a stretch anyway.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 5:24 pm: | |
I don't really have an interest in this direction but I must say some of the stuff I have been reading lately from a book directly concerning this case has struck some useful chords.
I'm still reading, so I'll try and comment presently. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2372
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 5:57 pm: | |
Hi Paul
I think a few years ago a psychic decided that the crimes had been committed by "Charlie the Fish Gutter". I believe it was in "Titbits" magazine sometime in the 70s.
Robert |
Dan Norder
Sergeant
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 12
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 6:27 pm: | |
I personally think "serious psychic" is an oxymoron, but oh well.
Didn't some recent psychic "talk" to the Ripper and give hints that it was Maybrick?
To get the scoop just search for "psychic" and then "medium" on this site and you'll see a variety of references, contemporary and modern. |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1165
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 7:07 pm: | |
There is a book called "Jack the Ripper - A psychic Investigation" by Pamela Ball.
As well as a review of the murders, victims and suspects, this includes transcripts from seances that claimed to contact the following people: Eddowes, Stride, Chapman,Nichols, tabram, Mountford, Kelly, Druitt, Lees and Maybrick.
the seances were carried out in 1997.
There is a review of the book on Casebook at
http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/pamball.html |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 261
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:24 am: | |
Hi
as far as I have so far been able to ascertain lees was never 'employed' as such but did offer his services only to be told to get lost.
For a good website on lees run by Stephen Butt why not visit
http://www.rjlees.co.uk
How's that for a plug!!!
Jennifer D. Pegg
|
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1050
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 1:17 pm: | |
Chris
This is the book that I am reading at the moment.
Although no great believer in such things there are interesting moments in the transcripts of the seances which I will highlight for our edification later on. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 810
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 3:37 pm: | |
Hi AP,
I have read Pamela Balls book many times, I have also an open mind on mediums, however with reference to the murder of kelly, without spoiling the conclusion. 'I am not surprised in the slightest , are you?
Richard. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 811
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 3:42 pm: | |
Hi,
With reference to a medium or pyschic being used on the Jack hunt, I would applaud such a enterprise, providing the chosen person was not pre warned of the subject, and they were chosen , because of an unlikely knowledge of the subject.
It may give us a clue or to , one never knows.
Richard. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 4:26 pm: | |
Sorry, Richard, I have not yet reached Kelly's transcripts, but will take regard of what you say when I do.
Although no great believer, I do have a friend in the south of England who is often called upon by the police to use her strange 'powers' with unsolved crimes, and she has enjoyed some success. However I just tend to think she is a very clever judge of character and circumstance, much in the same way that some are more versatile at using the 'medium' we now employ to communicate - the internet - it is all about the ability to communicate and some are better than others in all manner of degrees. |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 174
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:24 pm: | |
Hi AP
Sounds like Miss Marple!
Best Regards
John Savage |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 140
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 8:56 pm: | |
Hi All,
Thanks for your input. Richard, I agree that it may be helpful, provided the right circumstances.
The only thing is the age of the case. I dont know how that would affect a reading. Im also not really talking about a seance or anything like that. Im thinking more like a psychic that can look or touch an object, such as...A pic of a murder victim and try to get a read that way...maybe a clue. Not necessarily someone trying to talk to dead people. Thats a little far out for me. Regards.
Paul |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1056
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
John.
She certainly doesn't look like Miss Marple!
I thought I would highlight a few of the transcripts with the 'medium' that have caught my attention in this volume:
Regarding Eddowes:
'The mutilations weren't sexual...'
'He's speeded up... the murderer...he doesn't work at normal speed...'
Regarding Chapman:
'I think it's very much to do with the man's mother (the medium is referring to the killer here).'
'It's been done to satisfy an urge... no motive... mother/baby thing. Somebody is trying to take away the ability to be a mother. There is hate, of women, prostitutes, mothers. Not being able to successfully have sex. Impotent, blaming his mother. He wanted to have sex with his mother - hence the older prostitutes... he definitely had problems with his mother... he chose older women because they would have had children... and then he could make it that they could no longer be mothers. He killed them because it was like killing his own mother, but then he mutilated them because that finished them off as women.'
Any comments? |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1579
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
Hi Richard,
Since I do believe in the abilities of psychic mediums, and have some experience on the matter and how it works, I can tell you why the method can't be used in the Ripper case:
Because the case and its facts are too well known! You will never be able to tell how much is a product of a spiritual contact and how much is originating from the medium's own intellectual brain work.
A serious medium don't want -- and shouldn't have -- any information whatsoever about the item that is the subject for the seance. I am afraid that is impossible in the case of Jack the Ripper, considering its popularity and the amount of books and films on the subject.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 816
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 3:18 pm: | |
Hi Glenn,,
If a medium, or pyschic was relying on films or just a basic knowledge of 'Jack' to create new imformation, they would come across as phoneys.
What we are looking for is a genuine medium, that honestly relates their feelings , regardless if they do not fit known facts.
I Honestly feel that standing on the murder spots , as far as it is possible in this day, at the precise time, and date of the respective killings, may show ie, from a genuine medium,. some potential new information.
Richard. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1582
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:05 pm: | |
Hi Richard,
I don't think you quite understood what I was getting at.
It has nothing to do with feelings or the ability to dig up new information.
If a psychic medium is supposed to be used, it must be on a case or about information that is not already public knowledge.
There reasons for this being:
a) to make it as hard as possible for a medium to recieve information on beforehand; this is extremely important in case of a hoaxer or charlatan -- unfortunately they are a vast majority among those who work in the trade. If information already is known about the case, you can never be sure whether the medium is a fake one or not -- the only way to make sure the medium is genuine is if he or she is delivering information that only you alone can know about!
b) Since one of my best friends works as a psychic medium and is one of Sweden's most well-known, he has told me this: if he gets information about the subject prior to or during the seance, there is always the risk that his own intellect is going to interfere in the process. Mediums work differently, but most of them gets information via emotions, pictures, telepathy, voices -- very seldom concrete names etc.
The result is depending on two things: 1) how clear the contact is, which varies from spirit to spirit and from medium to medium. 2) The medium's ability to interpret the information he gets -- which can be rather difficult, since what they mainly get is symbols and emotions, sometimes visions and actual conversations, but that is not as common as people thinks. It is in connection with this interpretation process that it is incredibly difficult not to let your own intellect be part of the analysing.
That is the reason why a genuine medium don't want to work on a case they already know the background information about. A genuine medium don't want any information whatsoever regarding the subject they are supposed to deal with, because it makes the task harder for them.
I have myself used the method a couple of times, and with very satisfying, convincing and interesting results, but it was concerning a couple of unknown local cases, not internationally well-reputated mysteries. Information from a medium under circumstances like those of Jack the Ripper could never be considered genuine or reliable.
Furthermore, the older the case, the harder it becomes to check up on the information the medium puts forward, since a lot of changes in the environment makes it almost impossible. A medium is just getting a picture of a place, they get no information about exactly where it is, just what it looks like.
Some people seem to think that it's like talking through a telephone. It isn't!
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1060
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 10:53 am: | |
Glenn is quite right of course.
Having just finished reading ‘Jack the Ripper. A Psychic Investigation’,
I have to say I was bitterly disappointed that the author and her crew approached the subject with obvious preconceptions about the crimes and the identity of Jack the Ripper. Their money was on Barnett - now I know why Richard likes the book so much - and the blatant attempts to make their ‘Psychic’ information fit their ‘Psychic’ suspect were ghastly to say the least. The book is now in the sea on its way to St Malo.
I would like to see someone do this again, but this time without prejudice or preconception… in fact it would be nice to pick up any book on the subject and find that. Some hope!
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1592
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 10:58 am: | |
quote:Their money was on Barnett - now I know why Richard likes the book so much [...] The book is now in the sea on its way to St Malo.
You crack me up, AP. Good one. 
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 156
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 10:06 pm: | |
Hey Glenn,
How are ya? Regarding your above post where you were saying how the popularity of the case would be a problem. You might be surprised how many people have no clue about Jack the Ripper or anything related to the case. For example-
about two weeks ago I was talking to an old lady
that had a photo of her grandfather that was dated 1888. I said "1888, that was the year of Jack the Ripper". She was totally clueless..
she asked me..."wasnt that in California?"
She was serious. Just because we stand in the shower (not together of course) and think about different aspects of Jack the Ripper, doesnt mean
that everybody knows anything about it. I guess we are weird....at least thats what my girlfriend
thinks. haha
Paul |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 819
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 2:48 am: | |
Hi,
Paul is right, not every body knows the intimate details of the case, everybody I have spoken to utter remarks eg. 'He was a doctor was he not' or'Something to do with the royal family'
To approach a genuine medium, with little or no time for skulldudgery, would at least result in piece of mind, that we were getting honest feedback.
Regards Richard. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1602
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 3:48 am: | |
Hi Paul and Rich,
Paul: How are ya brother?
I know very well that not all are that read up on the case as we are, but we can't know that! That is one of the points I mentioned above.
There are unfortunately a lot of con people in the business, and if you want to make sure your medium is genuine, it is a really bad idea to choose a subject that is so easy to research. As I said earlier, if you want to make sure the information you get is reliable, you must be absolutely sure of that the details you receive from the medium can only be known by you alone! If it is possible to obtain that information during two seconds surfing on the Internet, I'd be real careful.
Just because one believes in the paranormal and the efforts of mediums, like I do, doesen't mean one should be naive.
And as I said, checking out the information - if the medium is describing a house for example - is extremely difficult, when so long time has passed.
I do believe in the method, but I also know the difficulties and pit-falls connected with it. Believe me, guys, I actually have a lot of experience on the field since I've done it a number of times and I personally know a medium; I do have some insight and know how it works. Not to sound cocky, but nevertheless.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Alan Sharp
Chief Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 552
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 4:36 am: | |
Richard
That's one of the reasons I find Patsy Cornball so irritating. I was just getting used to the fact that 99 times out of 100 when I mentioned an interest in JTR I would get the response "Oh, they found out it was all to do with the Masons in the end, didn't they?" and now I have go get used to the fact that the usual response is "Oh they found out it was that artist fella, didn't they?" instead! GRRRR!!!! |
Garry
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 7:57 am: | |
Interesting post, this is something I have planned using a 'medium' from Yorkshire who has no interest in 'The Ripper' and she'll be going round the area 'cold'. No date has been set yet mind you but I'll nip back in and let you know if anything decent comes from it. |
Andi Ward
Police Constable
Username: Andi
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 11:19 am: | |
Speaking as a person who has worked as a part of a psychic investigation team (1 of 5 participating psychics), I agree with everyone who says that it's best not to have the psychic know anything about what they are investigating. As psychic impressions do have to be filtered through the person's consciousness to be understood by themselves, let alone explained to others, it's almost impossible to keep your own thoughts, impressions, guesses out of the filtering systems. For this reason, I will never do a reading for someone I know--I know I'll be biased according to my relationship with them. Which is the big reason I long ago decided that I wouldn't do the work myself--as a life-long reader of JtR, I know far too much to trust anything I got.
I'd love to see what someone who doesn't know what they're looking into picks up on the murders, but it's not always that difficult to keep the psychic from knowing. Giving a psychometrist (they can "read" impressions directly off of objects they touch) a picture in a sealed manilla envelope is enough so they consciously know nothing except that it's a picture from the feel of it. Who the picture is and when it was taken is a decent "test" of their abilities as well. Taking them from site to site might or might not work anymore, considering the history of those locations in the last 100+ years. (After all there was another murder in Miller's Court not long after Kelly's that could give off impressions.)
Still, if anyone comes up with anything, it would be very interesting to read.
|
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 729
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 3:13 pm: | |
Hi you lot!!
Psychics......hmmmmm a good idea I reason... of course there is the Pamela Bell book.... Good in parts but maybe we should hire a Brighton Madame Arcarti and find out for ourselves!!!!!!.....all join hands and contact JtR eh!!!
Cheers Suzi
|
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 284
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 5:52 am: | |
Suzi
that could be a brilliant idea!
all the best
Jennifer |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 867
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 4:06 pm: | |
Hi,
To obtain a mediums assistance, would be a harmless venture, provided they were , of course not likely to know of the case, they were assigned to.
Lets face it , the average supposed, sincere person, who has a gift in premonitions, or claims to be in contact with spirits, has no knowledge of these murders, it takes years of study to understand even a percentage of recorded facts.
I feel to embark on such a venture, may reveal quiet possiblity, some senses , which could bring home some new approaches.
Regards Richard,
|
angel_eyes
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 4:33 pm: | |
Paul,
I think that employing a psychic to help with the Jack the Ripper case is a mistake. There would be no way of knowing whether or not they are right or simply looking for attention because they were involved with the case. If it were possible to record that type of thing then maybe it would be a good choice. Unfortunately, it's not. As you said, we are running out of options but regardless of that there is still no way of knowing whether or not they were sincere in their "intentions" of wanting to help with the case or not. And by the way paul, if your girlfriend thinks that we are all weird, then tell her maybe she should try to see what we think is so fascinating about it ;)
Angel |
Jeff Leahy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 6:15 pm: | |
Hi Psychic Fans
The answer is yes. Psychics have been employed to try and come up with answers, which is largely what I have been doing for the last year. Thanks especiallly to the ripperologosts that have been helping in their spare time.
However the propblem, which Paul Begg has made clear, is simple. If a psychic comes up with information that can be varified, then it is possible that they could have equired that information from the internet beforehand, if they come up with information that can not be verified then it is almost impossible to make sense of that information unless it can be cross varified with original archive information.
It is therefore almost impossible to verify what a psychic has to say. Although I for one do not beleive that they stay up all night researching...(to many beers for a start.).
Its a dornting task unless you have a large research team that costs money...answer.. funding from a broadcaster...which is easier than it sounds...and I should know...
Thanks to help from some people from these boards I gave it a go last year...one of the interesting out comes was a reading by Medium Tony Stockwell with the Gt Gt Gt Granddaughter of Catherine Eddows, there was some interesting information, Tony came up with the name of her father and sisters... for myself his discription of a cluster (resembling a timble was particularly of interest) but as I said this was all stuff that could have been known if you did do some research.
I dont beleive that these mediums cheet or look thingsd up in anyway. (I've worked to Closely) However I dont buy that they talk to dead people either. (which is what they beleive) Infact Im not sue what they do do but I find it facinating.
Anyway as I am still trying to raise finance for a proper psychic investigation into the Ripper case I have desided to release some of the material we have shot already to create some interest with possible broadcasters.
The interveiw with the gt Gt gt grandaughter of Catherine Eddows should be of some interest to most of you. (whether you beleive or not) It should appear in the new series of the Colin Fry Show on Living TV. Hopfully it should create some interest in the autum.....it was facinating for myself...although no conclusions...TV requires finance and its difficult to get interest so please let them know if you think they should do further investigation. I'm ratrher pleased with the final edit..hope you enjoy it ...hope it creates some points of discussion.
I will post on these boards close to the broadcast date. Perhaps we can get some chat going.. Had to chop alot out for braodcast ...there is more.....Hoping to get Neil Sheldon on the show to talk about the years he has spent tracking down the descendants, which should also interest Ripper fans in its own right, although I know Neil himself is very sceptical about psychics..his help has been invaluable..many thanks,,,,you should each make your own minds up, whether you beleive or not....I'm still sitting on the wall.. Jeff
Catch you UK Living Soon, on the Colin Fry Show ...Jeff |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 496
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 10:09 am: | |
Jeff,
nice to hear from you. Glad your show is going well.
Unfortunately I don't get cable but perhaps I can blag a tape off someone else!
Jennifer
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr |
Jeff Leahy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 12:09 pm: | |
Hi Jennifer
Things, unfortunately going slower than I had hoped, I'm hoping that a little teaser on the Colin Fry show will help get things going, although we wont be able to use the models and the more interesting stuff we've filmed. I'll try and let you know nearer the time it goes out so your freind can tape it. However I have know idea until a couple of weeks before exactly when...new series starts end of August so we're very busy at the moment, if any body wants tickets for the studio show there are still some left, but this years shows are in Maidstone.
Yours Jeff |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Chief Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 519
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 6:24 am: | |
Hi Jeff,
Cheers for the info.
Jennifer
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 97
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 4:21 pm: | |
I think it would only work in this late stage if we had something of one of the victims to use or better, something of Jack'sfor the psychic to read. Small problem with the latter. We don't know who he was so what we have might not be his. Unfortunately, the victims likely had even less. the brass ring recovered by the police might work if it didn't get lost, stolen or melted down to make ammunition or aircraft parts in the intervening years. Neil |
Jeff Leahy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 8:06 am: | |
Hi Neil
The only thing actually connected directly to the Ripper case are the photographs, what remains of the murder sites, the graves (which hold little connection for the psychics)and most importantly the descendants of the victims themselves. There are artifacts with reported connections to the case but none can be connected to Jack or victims with any certainty. Even the letters are of dubeous connection.
Not much to go on I'm afraid at best we could hopefully alliminate some of the suspects. It is however an interesting way of exploring some of the Ripper information often over looked and gives a new angle into the story.
Jeff |
Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 7:41 pm: | |
Funnily enough only a couple of weeks ago I was sitting in the White Hart pub in Gunthorpe Street, Whitechapel and I was talking to one of the many Ripper tour guides who informed me that he took a psychic friend around the Ripper sites who came up with some information that was interesting for him but inconclusive as far as I could tell. It would not be fair for me to repeat his story here without his permission but if any of you are interested in this being related further I will contact him and ask him to post his story here.
Regards,
SD |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 106
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 8:18 pm: | |
At this point, the objects found by some of the bodies would be the only thing worth using at all. I believe that the reading would be marrd by the years and number of hands that had touched the items. (Police, morticians curators etc)
Without authenticity, the letters would be worthless other than as an experiment in reading. either way, no judge in America and certainly none on her majesty's bench would countenance the evidence. Still, the story would be interesting, Stephen. Kindest regards, Neil |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1915
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 8:33 pm: | |
Hi Neil, Jeff, Stephen et.al.
Since I've been dealing with the paranormal and psychic mediums (which I've used occasionally with often good results) for quite some time now, I can inform you that it's not necessary at all for psychics to use artefacts or objects belonging to the victims. Not if the psychic is a good one and the communication between the spirit and the psychic is going well.
Every psychic works differently, because they are different individuals -- some needs objects in order to get a better contact, but some actually prefer not to have access to an object at all. For a psychic medium it is important to work with as little information as possible in order for that info not to disturb the communication. Even if a psychic have contact with a spirit, they usually have to make personal interpretations of the sensations and pictures they get delivered through the communication; therefore, if their intellect can recieve too much information from an object, it can disturb this interpretation process and lead them wrong.
Therefore it's important to find out how the psychic medium that's chosen for the job operates. Not one works in exactly the same way as the other.
I believe there is a very well known and well reputated psychic medium living in London, Marion Damper-Jeans, who is originally from Denmark. I think she usually works with objects, but I am not sure how much she really needs them. A really good medium doesen't really need a lot of objects.
So... the objects are NOT necessary for a good psychic medium, they can usually fix it anyway.
And as far as I am concerned, the morgue photos would be quite enough, if objects were needed. No need for rings and other stuff. As have been pointed out here earlier, too many would have been touching them already. Photographs would be enough to open up a conctact, but I would suggest to start out with as little objects and info to the medium as possible and let him/her work without inteference.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 29, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Scott Suttar
Detective Sergeant
Username: Scotty
Post Number: 150
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:14 pm: | |
Hi all,
Glenn, that sounds right to me and I totally respect your opinion. If an object were to be used by a psychic though, I would like to see what they might read from the knife given to Donald Rumbelow. We can't connect this knife directly to the killings and it might be of no relevance at all, but I just think it would be interesting to see if any useful reading did come from it.
Scotty. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1920
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 7:13 am: | |
Hi Scotty,
Yes, it's true. That knife would be interesting to check out.
I am actually not sure how much the fact that a lot of people have handled it, really would be a problem on all occasions. It is possible that it could reveal some interesting information just the same. But OK, it might be a long shot.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Jim DiPalma
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jimd
Post Number: 92
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 10:37 am: | |
Hi Glenn, Scott,
Point of interest. Some years ago there was a show on US television (I think it was an episode of "Sightings") wherein Donald Rumbelow handed the knife in question to a medium while they were standing on the site of Polly Nichols murder.
As I recall, she took the knife from him, but immediately handed it back, saying 'no no no, I don't want to know about that', then refused to discussed what she had 'seen'.
Cheers,
Jim |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1925
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:41 am: | |
Hi Jim,
Interesting.
I haven't seen that show, though.
I guess there could be a number of reasons. If she was a fake (unfortunately there are those), she could quite easily have figured out what it was all about, of course.
That is one of the major problems with dealing with psychics in the Ripper context. Even if a psychic medium is genuine, there is already so much generally known information (although superficial and distorted) about the case spinning around, that it would be hard to know which information came from the spirit world and which came from the medium's own intellect or memory. This is usually a psychic mediums' own most important problem to watch out for during a communication in any case.
But interesting nevertheless.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Police Constable
Username: Howard
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 1:04 pm: | |
Mr.Andersson: Just a thought,but what if "cold reads" [correct the phrase,if I am incorrect] were utilized, in particular,taking a successful psychic [ Ripperologist Garry Ross knows one] to a gravesite of a suspect from the proverbial list...
Yeah,I know...psychics. Their's is the case of 99 bad apples ruining it for the 1 good one. However,there was a series on COURT-TV that had some extraordinary cases of people,some who didn't even know they had the "gift", solving crimes. Police in my city do use psychics.
Since you seem to be objective [ as I am ] toward psychics, I was wondering if this has ever happened [ the cold read at a gravesite]. Thank you...HB |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1928
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 1:38 pm: | |
Hi Howard,
I am afraid I don't fully grasp what you refer to.
The only "cold reading" in this context that I am aware of, is when a fake medium is "reading" you from your reactions and undeliberate confirmations to a vague piece of information given by the medium (unfortunately rather common).
I suppose that you mean something completely different. But it sounds interesting; maybe you just simply mean an attempt of spiritual communication at a certain site or spot, like -- as you say -- a gravestone? If that's the case, I didn't know there was a name for it. I also have to struggle with language problems here, since English is not my native tongue, so I suspect there are a lot of English terms on the subject that I am not aware of.
Please elaborate, if possible.
Interesting to hear, Howard, that your local police uses psychic mediums.
I am good friends with one of Sweden's more popular and established mediums, and he has been contracted by the Swedish police at several occasions, although that of course is kept "unofficial" and "off the record" -- over here it is very much a controversial method in crime contexts.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Police Constable
Username: Howard
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 3:23 pm: | |
Glenn: My mistake...A cold read IS what you have described,not what I originally stated.
Yes,Glenn,I am sure other cities do likewise [ Los Angeles has and so did the other cities and towns in that eerie COURT-TV series]. A woman in my neighborhood has been called in many times to peruse crime scenes..as have occult experts.This is an aspect of criminology that seldom is admitted to by the police of many areas. Good old forensics are the best method,but on that rare occasion.... If it ever comes back on, the Psychic Detectives series,that is ,I will be sure to let you know. Thanks for the reply ! Howard |
Howard Brown
Police Constable
Username: Howard
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 3:27 pm: | |
Whoops ! I forgot, Glenn...
Would your friend,the medium,be interested in going to Islington Cemetery in London???
Thats where D'onston is right now....
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1933
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 3:41 pm: | |
Hi again, Howard.
"My mistake...A cold read IS what you have described,not what I originally stated."
Ah OK. I figured as such, but I wasn't sure. I am not a total expert on this (My knowledge is mainly based on own experiences), so I don't know all terms applied in all situations.
Yes, I think so too, although they usually prefer to keep quiet about it.
Here in Scandinavia, we've had a television series as well, where psychic mediums has tried to reveal new information about murders by communicating with the dead victims (my friend was part of that TV show). Not all police districts were happy about the controversial interference, though, although most of them did contact the mediums afterwards on their own initiative...
"Would your friend,the medium,be interested in going to Islington Cemetery in London???
Thats where D'onston is right now...."
I don't think he's available, Howard, he is too popular and has too much to do at the moment.
But as I understand, London has a lot of psychic mediums of their own that are rather well reputed. The one I mentioned, Marion Damper-Jeans are one of them.
So, Howard, you're a D'Onston fan...
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Police Constable
Username: Howard
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 10:05 pm: | |
Hey Glenn....Yes,I lean toward D'onston..Thanks for the name of the person in London...
Now we drink........Skoal !!!
|
Howard Brown
Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:06 pm: | |
Glenn and all.....Here is an e-mail from Ivor regarding him being on Sky TV...
You can say Sky TV did a programme about my book and during the programme they sent a famous British psychic into the Cricketers Inn, Brighton which was a prostitutes pub where D'onston stayed, just prior going to Whitechapel. It was really interesting and the psychic was really on the ball. She even did a picture that looked liked D'Onston.She said the guy she made contact with liked to cut things open to see how they worked. He had a scientific mind and he was an author and a Doctor. The subject told the psychic people misunderstood him. D'Onston had been a scientific writer for a newspaper and he was an author and a doctor and cut things open. She said he had been hiding documents and papers under floorboards.You can say the last part was funny because the first time Ivor went to the pub he told the landlord in front of witnesses that he would like to look under the floorboards to see if D'Onston had hid anything.
[Meanwhile Edwards got three sheets to the wind,sucking down 21 beers and making moves on anything with a heartbeat]-HB |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1936
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:28 pm: | |
Hi Howard,
Interesting. Yes, that seems like rather fitting personal details indeed. But those things never amaze me nowadays. When you have a good medium anything can happen.
As far as the Ripper is concerned, D'Onston is not that high on my suspect list (I don't see any evidence of black magic in the killings), but interesting nevertheless.
I wonder who the famous British psychic was.
Skål, Howard!
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
|
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