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ReeceAU
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 6:22 am: |       |
Hi all,
Just wanted to know if anyone knows much about the apparent sounds and sightings of spirits in the East End? I have heard such stories as Annie Chapmen Crying out at night,and the Haughnting of the Ten Bells cellar by Liz Stride.
Im no ghost buster, but have an open mind to such things so if anyone has any stories or sightings of there own, i would love to hear them.
Reece,{Geelong Australia}
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2254
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 5:42 am: | |
Hi Reece
There's some ghost stuff on the thread Frances Coles - Swallow Gardens.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1367
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 5:56 am: | |
Aaah, a thread for me, who is into spiritualism.
I must say, that I am completely ignorant about the alleged crying of Annie Chapman. That was complete news to me, and it sounds a bit questionable. I would for my part only consider sightings or testimonies that comes from several different and independent sources, not a general rumour. Where is this supposed to have occurred?
I have read somewhere about that The Ten Bells should be haunted in some way (or do I confuse it with another pub? It's been quite a while since I read about it), but I've never heard about Liz Stride being connected with it. I thought it was the upper floor that was supposed to be haunted, not the cellar, but I could be wrong. As far as I know, the pub is mostly known for Mary Kelly walking outside the entrance picking up customers.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 991
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 8:52 am: | |
It would be good to see a ghost of Mary Kelly. At least we'd know what she looked like then.
Sarah |
Jim DiPalma
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jimd
Post Number: 75
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:17 am: | |
Hi Reece,
If you can find a copy of Peter Underwood's "JTR: 100 Years of Mystery", there is an entire chapter devoted to Ripper ghost stories.
Cheers
Jim |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:24 am: | |
Some notes I had about Ripper ghosts - might be of some use
Chris
Ripper’s legacy
Two victims of Jack the ripper have returned to London’s East End to remind the capital city of its most celebrated unsolved crimes.
‘Polly Nicholls, a 42 year-old prostitute, was the first of the cruel butcher’s six victims, found with her throat and stomach cut on August 31, 1888. She has been seen since, a huddled pathetic figure, glowing eerily in the gutter of Durwood Street, Whitechapel, where her body was discovered.
Harrowing screams heard in Hansbury Street, in nearby Spitalfields, are said to be those of Jack’s victims, 47 year-old Annie Chapman.
ISPR Investigates Ghosts of England and Belgrave Hall DVD Movie
Synopsis: Silent specters, forgotten corridors, lost souls… the hauntings of England are legendary. Join Dr. Larry Montz and ISPR's world renowned investigation team as they continue to probe the threshold of the paranormal during five haunting investigations including: Jack the Ripper "The White Chapel Murders" History's greatest unsolved crimes. This gruesome trail of blood continues to lead Scotland Yard and modern historians through London's East End killing grounds.
Available at: http://800-buy-movies.com/altdvdgr/gr83325D1.htm
Echoes of Jack the Ripper
From the Archive of Peter Underwood
The infamous Jack the Ripper murders of 1888 still haunts the East End of London, where the fiend committed his crimes without being caught. Unearthly echoes still resound, apparitions of his six victims have been seen at various murder scenes. In a corner of Mitre Square in 1888 the mutilated corpse of Catherine Eddowes was left by the Ripper, to the present day passersby have reported seeing a body on the spot, however on investigation find nothing. The forlorn spirit of victim Mary Nichol’s has also been seen near the location of her murder, often accompanied by phantom horses or seen with a dark specter believed to be the Ripper himself. The Millers Court flat of Mary Kelly, last victim of the Ripper, was rented out for many years after her murder. One of the residents noted on TV how a ghostly hand print, seemingly made of blood, often appeared on a wall. No matter how many times the wall was painted, no matter how hard they scrubbed, it reappeared.
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1368
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:12 pm: | |
Thanks Chris and Jim,
Apparently the Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman events seem to be referred to a number of times. Interesting.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2256
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 2:15 pm: | |
One objection I have to the "stone tapes" theory is, that if these sorts of events are somehow imprinted on the surroundings, then why do people only seem to experience them when everyone concerned is dead, and when the imprints are presumably weaker owing to the passage of time?
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1370
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 2:45 pm: | |
Robert,
The Stone Tape Theory is only one theory presented in connection with haunted places, and I believe it has been quite challenged.
The idea is that a dramatic event with strong emotional content is imprinted in the matter on the actual location where it happened, and then is replayed like a video tape. This mainly occurs in connection with larger events, like battle fields etc.
I personally believe it to be a load of crap. As I see it, a place is haunted simply because of the spirit of -- in this case -- the victim, has got stuck and for some reason remained there, presumably because of the hasty and unpredicted death -- it is actually quite common with paranormal experiences in connection with violent deaths.
I don't believe in ghost stories where a whole drama is replayed. Of course the Stone Tape Theory could be an explanation to these "sightings", but I find it questionable. However, it is quite common that dead people are quite often seen in these situation, but hardly to replay the scene of their death, but to acknowledge themselves in some way.
To me, paranormal experiences are connected with the spirit of the dead person and his/her emotional bonds to the place, not to the physical matter of the location.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on March 26, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
PF arm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 8:20 am: | |
I agree with Glenn, since JtR was known for the silence of his attacks and quite possible the next door neighbour heard Annies assualt and did not hear a scream the idea of a ghostly Annie screaming does not make sense.
Ghost sightings tend to be strongly affected by a person thought. I have a book at home called 'great hauntings' and in there it tells how a guy (i think he might of wrote in the paper or spoke on the radio) made up a story about ghostly monks in an area of London which was neither a known haunted area or had any association past or present with monastries. The result was he had several people contact him with sightings of monks in the area.
My point is that an area with a known dark past is liable to be connected with ghosts from the dark past with no strong evidence of a)ghost or b) a connection (of ghosts) with the past events.
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PF arm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
Sarah
What about the ghost of JtR himself walking his dog down Goulston st.? |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1373
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 6:25 pm: | |
PF arm,
If you mean that ghosts in general are products of people's expectations or minds, I certainly don't agree with you (forgive me if I had misread you).
That being said, I can't exclude that that could be the case in this particular Ripper context. Generally ghosts appears in totally unexpected situations for most people, and in this case it feels a bit too obvious for me. But as I said, paranormal experiences and ghost reports are quite common in connection with violent crimes or deaths so I am not prepared to rule it out either.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on March 26, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Candy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 9:29 pm: | |
Hello All!
There's a photo over on Ghoststudy.com that is claimed to have been taken inside The Ten Bells.
http://www.ghoststudy.com/monthly/oct02/pub.html
Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't seem to have been photoshopped in any way but I'm no expert.
~~Candy |
ReeceAU
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 5:53 am: | |
Thanks everyone for your input!!! I do remember now where i heard about Liz Stride haunting the Ten Bells.
It was a show from the USA called SIGHTINGS. Would be about 10 yrs ago when i saw it, but it also had a bloke who owned the 2nd knife which i think was found after the double event. I cant remember his name, but i think he was a Ripper historian.
Its odd , when i think of ghosts in whitechapel,the 1st picture that comes to my mind is the Punch cartoon "THE NEMISIS OF NEGLECT"
"WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH!!!!!!" |
PF arm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 4:43 am: | |
Glenn
Thats not what i meant but i think the confusion came from my reply being written to your first message where you doubted Annies ghost but not being okayed and put up until later.
For clarification i don't think all ghost are figments of the imagination but, as you seem to agree, the possibility of misinterpretation is something that should be remembered when looking at ghost stories.
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Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:22 pm: | |
I'd bet, provided they are occuring at all, that the majority of hauntings occuring in and around London as a result of the Ripper slayings, are "residual" in nature. Acts occuring in life, that were so emotionally intense and tramatic to those they happened to (i.e. the actual slayings), that they repeat themselves in the afterlife, over and over, and are occasionally visible and audible to the living. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1396
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 9:33 am: | |
Hi PF arm,
Yes, I thought I may have misread your post. I wasn't really sure, so I just wanted to elaborate my view on that matter a bit further, just in case. Seems like we really are of the same opinion, then.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1397
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 9:39 am: | |
Hi Candy,
Thanks for the link to that very interesting website.
Regarding the spirit in the Ten Bells... rather peculiar, it is hard to get a grasp of the real proportions of things in the pictures, but that figure almost looks like some sort of statue to me. Well, it's hard to tell, really...
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 589
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 11:46 am: | |
Hi Candy
Thanks for that link. I know there are many ways to get a false, ghostlike impression onto a roll of film. However, I do believe in the survival of the soul-so who knows. I don't want to get too metaphysical here but I believe the soul is energy and energy cannot be destroyed, only transformed.
All The Best
Gary |
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 642
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 10:12 am: | |
Hi all
Good thread here,
Some interesting points here...Annie and her scream, I find suspect, but am terribly drawn to the sad,huddled figure of Pol,jolly bonnet notwithstanding .....Feel a drawing coming on here!Cheers Suzi |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 104
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
Hi everybody,
That is a very interesting website. I am a photographer and there are several ways that
you can make "ghosts" appear on film. A lot
of those ghost pics did look explainable...however there were some that were very bizarre. I enjoyed looking at them.
Best Regards.
Paul |
Peter Sipka
Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 30
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 1:53 am: | |
Hey everybody,
Regarding the picture you see immediately after the link shows up at the Ten Bells Pub, I didn't read anyone mentioning this, but in my interpretation, it looks like she has a head and a bit of a neck on her lap. Perhaps, that of Jack the Ripper? Looks clean shaven and an imprint of a just a head above her right breast. It immediately looked like James Maybrick then the Prince. Who knows, I may just be imagining it, but it's interesting.
Peter
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Candy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 1:25 am: | |
Hi guys!
I agree the picture looks a little like a statue, however, would anyone put a statue in the middle of the bar?
But there's no empirical for it being taken in the Bells, for that matter. So it's just an interesting weird picture.
I don't know if I believe in ghosts - survivals - hauntings, call them what you may. It seems to me that the LAST place any of the ladies would want to stay in is the one place where they were poor, cold and hungry while they were alive.
I should hope that if the soul is real - and does go on after death - that they're not condemned to remain stuck to a locale with such painful memories for them.
But that's just my .02 cents worth. Your milage may vary...
~~Candy |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 227
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 3:08 pm: | |
In the footnotes to Alan Moore's "From Hell" Mr. Moore mentions a ghost sighting of a rough looking woman and a man passing by the alleyway window of 29 Hanbury Street.
The man who alleged to have seen these spirits said that they always trudged through in the very early morning, and always repeated the same movements.
A scene in the comic of From Hell shows the Ripper looking into the window and seeing a man who looks startled and is apparently watching television.
-K |
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 661
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 4:52 pm: | |
Hi All
Well the floozie in the Ten Bells looks 'interesting'.I know I'm tall.... but she looks verrrry short!...the apron is interesting tho....hmm not at all sure here...Still have a lot of belief in the Stone -Tape thing....easy to believe in the Ten Bells....not as easy in the Frying Pan!!!! mind you the curry helped!
Come on.....it has to be Mitre Square that has the most 'spooky ambience' about it...
cheers
Suzi
What do you think then chaps?..? |
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