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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 160
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found this article in an Australian newspaper and thought it might be of interest:

Port Philip Herald 22 November 1888

A SUGGESTION FROM AN "EX CONVICT."

I have had (writes an "ex convict" to a London paper) several years' intercourse with the most desperate of London criminals, and you may, possibly, on that account consent to add the following to the many suggested theories put forward in your admirable paper to explain the motive of, and thereby start a clue to, the Whitechapel murders. It appears to me that the murderer must have the three following qualifications for the successful perpetration of his crimes:-
1) Cause for deadly vengeance against the unfortunates of the streets;
2) an intimate knowledge of Whitechapel, and an equal familiarity with the snail-like alacrity of the London police; with
3) some experience of a dissecting room.
I would suggest to Sir Charles Warren that he should obtain from Sir Edward Du Cann the names of such convicts as have been liberated, say, during the last six months, who have been employed as infirmary orderlies in the respective prisons from whence discharged. Also the additional information, where such ex-prisoners hailed from before sentence, and whether prostitutes were associated with the police in their original detection or conviction. I believe the murderer to be a man who has suffered a long term of penal servitude for some crime that was brought home to him through the betrayal of one of those casual unfortunates who "pal in" with burglars and other such criminals while spending the "swag" of a successful "bust." I have worked and conversed with humdreds of such men in more than one convict prison, and I cannot help remembering the ferocity with which they invariably spoke of "the _____ who had them put away," and how they would "do" for her whenever they were "chucked up." Desperate as these men are when outside of prison, many of them - especially the "old fakes" - are models of good behavior while undergoing penal servitude, and they seek thereby to qualify for the most coveted of prison "billets" - infirmary orderlies. In this position they acquire a good deal of knowledge about the use of dissecting knives etc. as they are employed to clean up the place where the prison doctors carry on their post mortem examinations of dead convicts.
My theory, therefore, such as it is, is this:-
1) The murderer is of the "old fake" criminal type.
2) He belongs to or is very familiar with Whitechapel.
3) He has served a long term, perhaps many terms, of imprisonment, some or all of which punishment he atributes to the class to which the murdered women belong.
4) His previous criminal career makes him familiar with the beat systems of the London police.
5) He has been an infirmary orderly in some convict prison, and he has recently termintaed his last sentence.
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Peter
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this makes for some good points. His theories over lap with some present day profiling techniques. here are some exerts from F.B.I profiling magazines and web sites:
ORGANIZED OFFENDERS

The organized offender is usually above average in intelligence. He is methodical and cunning. His crime is well thought out and carefully planned. He is likely to own a car, which is in good condition. The crime is usually committed out of his area of residence or work. He is mobile and travels many more miles than the average person. Fantasy and ritual are important to the Organized type personality. He selects a victim, which he considers the "right" type, someone he can control (either through manipulation or strength), usually a stranger. Most of his victims will share some common traits.

He is considered socially adept. He uses his verbal skills to manipulate his victims and gain control over them until he has them within his "comfort zone." He is fully cognizant of the criminality of his act and takes pride in his ability to thwart the police investigation. He is likely to follow news reports of the event and will oftentimes take a "souvenir" from his victim as a reminder, which is sometimes used to relive the event or continue with the fantasy. (The souvenir is referred to as a "trophy" when describing this particular action by the organized offender.)


He is excited by the cruelty of the act and may engage in torturing the victim. Sexual control of the victim plays an important part in this scenario. He avoids leaving evidence behind and usually brings his own weapon. He is aware of police procedures. The body is often removed from the crime scene. He may do this to "taunt" the police or to prevent its discovery by transporting it to a location where it will be well hidden.
The Deviant oriented assault or Lust murder is usually committed by someone who is defined as a lust murderer. Lust Murders are premeditated in the obsessive fantasies of the offender.
The lust murderer is oriented towards deviant and sexually sadistic assault and is distinguished from other sex related homicide offenders by his involvement in mutilation of the victim. Lust murderers can be organized or disorganized. According to studies conducted by the FBI, most of these offenders are disorganized and do not engage in penis penetration of the victim. Instead, they may masturbate upon their victims and engage in post mortem mutilation. There may be displacement of the breasts of females (Defeminization), post mortem attack of the genitalia of males and females, evisceration, the insertion of objects into the body cavities of victims and sometimes anthropophagy, which is the consumption of human flesh and blood.

The Ripper fits these discriptions. If the letter 'From Hell' is real, then the eating of the liver is quite possible, and the tauting. I have writin more about the "from hell' letter in that post section. all of this seems to fit.
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Peter
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this makes for some good points. His theories over lap with some present day profiling techniques. here are some exerts from F.B.I profiling magazines and web sites:
ORGANIZED OFFENDERS

The organized offender is usually above average in intelligence. He is methodical and cunning. His crime is well thought out and carefully planned. He is likely to own a car, which is in good condition. The crime is usually committed out of his area of residence or work. He is mobile and travels many more miles than the average person. Fantasy and ritual are important to the Organized type personality. He selects a victim, which he considers the "right" type, someone he can control (either through manipulation or strength), usually a stranger. Most of his victims will share some common traits.

He is considered socially adept. He uses his verbal skills to manipulate his victims and gain control over them until he has them within his "comfort zone." He is fully cognizant of the criminality of his act and takes pride in his ability to thwart the police investigation. He is likely to follow news reports of the event and will oftentimes take a "souvenir" from his victim as a reminder, which is sometimes used to relive the event or continue with the fantasy. (The souvenir is referred to as a "trophy" when describing this particular action by the organized offender.)


He is excited by the cruelty of the act and may engage in torturing the victim. Sexual control of the victim plays an important part in this scenario. He avoids leaving evidence behind and usually brings his own weapon. He is aware of police procedures. The body is often removed from the crime scene. He may do this to "taunt" the police or to prevent its discovery by transporting it to a location where it will be well hidden.
The Deviant oriented assault or Lust murder is usually committed by someone who is defined as a lust murderer. Lust Murders are premeditated in the obsessive fantasies of the offender.
The lust murderer is oriented towards deviant and sexually sadistic assault and is distinguished from other sex related homicide offenders by his involvement in mutilation of the victim. Lust murderers can be organized or disorganized. According to studies conducted by the FBI, most of these offenders are disorganized and do not engage in penis penetration of the victim. Instead, they may masturbate upon their victims and engage in post mortem mutilation. There may be displacement of the breasts of females (Defeminization), post mortem attack of the genitalia of males and females, evisceration, the insertion of objects into the body cavities of victims and sometimes anthropophagy, which is the consumption of human flesh and blood.

The Ripper fits these discriptions. If the letter 'From Hell' is real, then the eating of the liver is quite possible, and the tauting. I have writin more about the "from hell' letter in that post section. all of this seems to fit.
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FoghornLeghorn
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All decent profilers who looked at the case agreed on what common sense tells anyway - that the unsub in the case was a DISORGANISED killer. Douglas even analyzes his behavior in the case as disorganised, in one of his books - the JTR unsub is a classic example of a disorganised killer and was most likely someone of low intellect and social status. But of course people would rather see not only an organised offender instead, but a gentleman of high upbringing, preferably a mad doc or artist, or better yet someone from royalty, hmm...
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Neil K. MacMillan
Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith

Post Number: 28
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The problem with profiling JtR is that we will never know how close or far of base the profilers are. While I have leaned toward someone of medical knowledge (Meaning a doctor) What if our boy was a hospital orderly in the Army? I would assume he would have been mustered out prior to the killings and possibily for a mental abberation. If so, Jack need not be a man of leisure. A hospital orderly or steward for the army or navy (Notice that I do not specify British service here our boy could be a Yank)would of necessity have the requisite knowledge if they haad seen extensive combat service such as the Zulu wars or the American Civil War or Indian wars. Neil
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Shelley Wiltshire
Sergeant
Username: Shelley

Post Number: 26
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

`i think that this convict may have something, but i doubt that the killer had served many many sentences then a last sentence being a long stretch, i mean how old would he be? It's certainly possible that he could have learned how the prison doctors used a scalpel etc, also learn where the organs were in the body, as there were women prisioners also. But in the murder of Marie Jeanette Kelly, i think that the fire was lit so hot as to melt the kettle's spout to heat the room as to hide the time of death, i don't think cons were introduced to that kind of information, is it possible that someone with medical knowledge already ended up in the nick at sometime mucking out as this ex-con in his letter suggests.

Shelley
Criminology Student

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