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Leanne Perry
Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 7:50 am: |       |
G'day,
I am starting to believe that the original 'Dear Boss' letter was a true communication from the killer, but the 'Saucy Jacky' postcard was the first work of this 'enterprising London journalist.'
The line: 'You'll hear about saucy Jackys work tomorrow..' sounds like the thoughts of a press-man with prior knowledge of what the next days news will be, and 'Double event' sounds like the title of a newspaper story.
Look at the lines of the letter. They are horizontally straight across the page, and the 2nd page slopes slightly upwards. The lines of the 'Saucy Jacky' postcard slope downwards. Hey, maybe this was penned quickly, so the author could beat the morning press to baffle doubters/investigaters with preliminary knowledge.
LEANNE PERRY! |
Christopher T. George
Police Constable
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:16 am: | |
Hi, Leanne:
I think the only difference between the Dear Boss letter and the Saucy Jacky postcard is that the September 25 letter was written with care except for the P.S. while the postcard was more hastily written. I think I along with most people believe one person was involved in writing both communications. Whether or not the person was the killer is an open question.
All the best
Chris |
Leanne Perry
Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 5:31 am: | |
G'day Chris,
Stop comparing the handwriting for a minute, and start looking at the content! I think this is the mistake that alot of people make!
LEANNE PERRY
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simon rollason
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 6:50 am: | |
leanne
could it also not be the case that the author of both the letters sought to hide their true hand and make it look as if it was two people also the content and use of grammer in the letters would at first inspection look like differant authors this may not be the case.
if this propersition has any vailidity then one,i would submit, has to accept that the writer(if the same)must have an intelligence far above that one would expect for a significant proportion of the usual suspects. I look forward to your views.
simon. |
Leanne Perry
Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 27
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 4:48 am: | |
G'day Simon,
The killer would have sought to hide his true handwriting only if he was living with someone who could recognize it when it appeared to the public. This is an important point to think about once we've decided which were the authentic communications.
If the killer did write both the 'Dear Boss' letter and the 'Saucy Jacky' postcard, and wanted it believed that two people were involved, he could have used two completely different handwriting styles and perhaps would have included a clearer clue such as signing: 'Jack the RipperS'.
On the 'Dear Boss / Work of a journalist?' board, we are looking at the possibility that a journalist could have rushed to the Stride murder scene, raked up knowledge before it hit the headlines, then posted the 'Saucy Jacky' postcard, all to boost his news agency's importance in the investigation.
LEANNE PERRY
|
Leanne Perry
Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 1:01 am: | |
G'day,
The lines of 'Saucy Jacky': '..You'll hear about Saucy Jacky's work tomorrow. Double event this time...', sounds like the author had the reading public in mind and not the News Agency that was the recipient.
Eddowes died sometime between 1:35 and 1:45. The apron was found at 2:55 a.m. So to beat the 3:00 a.m. pillar box mail collection, the killer would have had to rush in writing 'Saucy Jacky', as if he had the morning papers in mind.
Now look at the earlier 'Dear Boss' letter: 'Keep this letter back till I do a bit more work then give it out straight...' The author here obviously had the News Agency in mind, knowing that the Agency had the ability to withhold news from the public.
It was the real Whitechapel Murderer who thought of the name 'Jack the Ripper', not the journalist who hoaxed the postcard. He probably borrowed some of the name from 'Spring-heeled Jack', who was a previous unidentified villain who hogged the newspapers.
LEANNE PERRY
|
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 1:01 am: | |
Leanne,
You're being awfully bold in asserting that the It was the real Whitechapel Murderer who thought of the name 'Jack the Ripper', not the journalist who hoaxed the postcard. He probably borrowed some of the name from 'Spring-heeled Jack', who was a previous unidentified villain who hogged the newspapers."
There's no evidence that really proves this at all. And Sugden has a long write up on how it would be possible for someone to have written Saucy Jacky with the information available in the media at the time. It wasn't posted in Sept. 30, but Oct. 1 - more than enough time for the news to spread.
Be careful in being so positive - we don't have enough evidence to prove conclusively that ANY of the letters are authentic, no matter what the Police or the press may have thought in 1888.
B |
Leanne Perry
Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 4:44 am: | |
G'day Brian, everyone,
I am merely offering enthusiasts another solution: (1) A journalist wrote 'Dear Boss' and 'Saucy Jacky', (2) The real killer wrote both or (3) The killer wrote one and journalist wrote the other. We don't have enough evidence to prove any of these, but we can use our brains to decide which is the more likely.
I am encouraging enthusiasts to stop comparing the handwriting, and look closer at the content. Is this being "awfully bold"?
I believe that the name 'Jack the Ripper' was thought up by the real killer, because the 'Dear Boss' letter is signed off with it. Underneath it says: 'Dont mind me giving the tradename', as if he thought: 'Ooooh, I just thought of a name!'
I just wrote a story about 'Spring-heeled Jack' for 'Ripperoo'! He is mentioned in 'Letters From Hell' as a 'FICTIONAL' villain of the 'Penny Dreadfuls', with 'vague real-life origins'.
TRUTH IS: A leaping madman startled and attacked, (without killing), women for nearly 70 years from 1837. The first 'Spring-heeled Jack' was likely to have been an Irish nobleman, who was a well-known prankster and I'd say pervert! From then on, he became a scape-goat for perverts and criminals who tried to remain annonymous. Throughout the 1850s and 1860s, sightings and attacks by this villain were reported in the newspapers all over England. Police put out extra patrols and vigilanti committees were formed!
I haven't read Sugden's 'long write up' yet, but how could it have been possible for anyone to have written 'Saucy Jacky', using available information, when the facsimilies of the handwriting didn't appear in the newspaper until the 4th of October? Only someone who worked at the newsagency could have seen the correspondences before this!
You say: 'we don't have enough evidence to prove conclusively that ANY of the letters are authentic.' Look at the threatening letter received by a witness on the 8th of October. To prove that one from the real killer, we first have to prove 'Dear Boss' from the killer, because both use a similar handwriting. Why would a hoaxer need to mimic the handwriting if he didn't want it to be seen by anyone but the witness?
LEANNE PERRY
|
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 35
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 5:19 pm: | |
Leanne,
What was awfully bold was the statement that "It was the..." that didn't have anything but your own conjecture behind it to back it up.
You base all of your conclusions on the belief that the "Dear Boss" letter was legitimate. There is absolutely no proof that it was. There is nothing but conjecture. As for the "Saucy Jacky" card, the common view is that both were written by the same hand. And the available information I was speaking of wasn't the description of the handwriting of the "Dear Boss" letter, but the fact that there were two murders, etc. that appeared in the note.
You again come back to linking the October 8th letter with the "Dear Boss" letter because they both have similiar handwriting. Do they really? Has an expert done this comparison? No offense, but neither of us are handwriting experts here.
You need to be careful about how you phrase these things. (God...I sound like Rich Dewar). You can't say things like "this is true", or "we know this" because we really don't. There is no way to prove that any of the letters came from the killer. Even my belief that the Lusk letter is genuine is not based on pure fact, merely my opinion and bias mixed in with what we know about it and the kidney.
And, for the record, you can tell if handwriting has been mimiced or disguised. There are hesitation marks where the ink is darker because the hoaxer hesitated briefly while copying the style he's trying to mimic.
My main point was to just be careful in what you say is "fact" when it really isn't. It's all based on your beliefs.
I hate being the "fact" police here, but I worry that there are new people out there reading these posts and getting the wrong ideas about things.
B |
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 51
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 6:56 am: | |
G'day Brian,
I have so many books about this case, and I don't write my comments until I have researched well!
Yes mate! The threatening letter received on the 8th of October, ('Letters From Hell' page 88), has been singled out by handwriting experts for it's similarity of handwriting, plus the exactness of the signature, to 'Dear Boss'. It contains echoes like 'little game', 'send your ears' and 'Yours Truly...' Sue Iremonger, (a forensic handwriting examiner), and Robert Smith, singled this particular letter out.
This one was sent to an 'unidentified witness', and threatens to 'finish' him if he shows it to the police or helps them. Therefore the 'hoaxer' wasn't after the thrill of it's exposure, like so many hoaxers were. But if not, why would he even try to copy the handwriting of 'Dear Boss'? Possible answer: the handwriting was the authors true hand. But how can this be important, if BOTH 'Dear Boss' and 'Saucy Jacky' were the hoaxed by a journalist? The identical layout of the date was my own observation, to add weight to the reason for singling it out!
'Saucy Jacky' contained information that only the killer or a journalist at the scene of the crime could have known! The threatening letter wouldn't have sold more newspapers or advanced the writers career, if the author didn't want it to go any further than the recipients eyes!
LEANNE PERRY |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 39
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 2:44 pm: | |
Leanne,
I'm not saying you haven't researched - clearly you have. I'm just saying that no matter the amount of research, some of the things you've said are simply not proven yet. That's all.
Read the Sugden bunking of the "Saucy Jacky" card - he contends that the postcard didn't contain any information that an average person who listened to the street gossip of the day wouldn't have known before it was posted.
I'll have to look up the handwriting expert information, because I've not read that before. One thing to keep in mind though, and I don't want to sound contrarian here, but forensic handwriting analysis is still very much more an artform than it is a science. I recognize Sue Iremonger's name, but I don't know her background.
In addition, the use of "echoes", in the 8th of October letter, doesn't mean there was a link to "Dear Boss". The letter was widely viewed, as we've both mentioned before. The "Dear Boss" letter was the prototype for all of the subsequent hoaxes, except the "From Hell" one, which was such a radical departure from the others that it raises my suspicions.
In any event, this talk about the letters is really pointless because without being able to prove that any of them came from the killer, they really don't give us any useful information, other than a glimpse into how some more macabre Londoners used their free time.
B |
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 52
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 4:18 am: | |
G'day Brian,
If we stick to only the proven facts in this case, we'll keep going round and round in circles! Police weren't able to prove enough against anyone!
In 'The Complete History of Jack the Ripper', Philip Sugden says that after receiving 'Dear Boss': 'The editor's instinct was to treat the whole matter as a hoax and he delayed two days before transmitting the letter to chief Constable Williamson at the Yard'. Do you know who's job it was to send it and write the cover-note to accompany it?....Tom Bulling's! (page 191 of 'The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Companion' Evans & Skinner.)
Bulling also wrote the covernote for sending 'Saucy Jacky' and the 'Moab and Midian' letter.
Philip Sugden suggests that the name 'Jack' may have been thought up by a young man who liked to read 'Penny Dreadful' literature. 'Letters From Hell' tells readers that superhero 'Spring Heeled Jack' was featured in 'Penny Dreadfuls' and has: 'vague real-life origins'. Wanting to write a story for 'Ripperoo', I researched this superhero: 'Press reports of a 'perculiar leaping man' who assaulted young girls, appeared as early as 1817, then on October 11th 1837, Polly Adams was attacked by a man who could leap over fences. Some one called him 'Spring Heeled Jack' and a legend was born.....There were other sightings/attacks all over London and reported in newspapers.....He became a dream-come-true for authors, playwrites, comic artists, publishers and advertisers. He became the star of 'Penny Dreadfuls', which were cheap part-novels for working class boys.' 'Jack the Ripper' probably did read this literature as a boy and loved it!
There was a letter sent to the CID before 'Dear Boss' you know? It claimed to be from the unnamed Whitechapel Murderer. 'Dear Sir I do wish to give myself up...' It wasn't signed at all!
How could the average person have been able to mimic the 'Dear Boss' handwriting on the 1st of October, when facsimiles didn't appear in the newspapers until the 3rd???? How could the average person have known about the killers promise to: 'clip the lady's ears off'.??? Only the writer and someone who had seen/read 'Dear Boss' before the 3rd, could have known.
The 'Saucy Jacky' writer was more than likely at the Stride murder scene, because the postcard contains no information about the Eddowes murder, (only that Stride was 'number one') and news of another murder that night would have reached the Stride murder scene.
Sue Iremonger is/was a forensic Document examiner, born in 1912. She was a member of 'The World Association of Document Examiners'. She was the first known 20th century proffessional to examine the original 'Dear Boss' letter and others under a microscope. Looking at all the letters that were in a similar handwriting, she singled out the letter of the 8th of October.
LEANNE PERRY
|
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 54
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 6:46 am: | |
G'day,
More about the real-life 'Spring Heeled Jack':
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/articlejack.shtml
LEANNE
|
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 40
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 7:53 am: | |
Leanne,
You missed an important line from Sugden. "The important question is whether any of the three communications we have noticed was actually written by the murderer. The first two - the letter and postcard signed Jack the Ripper - were in the same handwriting and should be considered together."
Sugden also links the Dear Boss and Saucy Jacky post cards together, as we read above. But don't just take his word for it, just look at them - the capital B in "Dear old Boss" from the card is identical to the one in the letter. And since only the Met and Tom Bulling would have known about the "Jack the Ripper" moniker, you are - in my mind - correct in your belief that Anderson's "enterprising young journalist" wrote that letter. It's also equally likely that the wrote the "Dear Boss" letter too.
Here's more of what Sugden wrote about the Saucy Jacky postcard. "The argument over the posting dates, however, rests upon an entirely false assumption - that if the card was mailed on Sunday 30th it displayed some foreknowledge of the details of the double murder. In truth neither card nor preceding letter contain anything whatsoever to justify a belief that they were written by the murderer. This conclusion holds good whether the card was posted on Sunday or Monday and the preoccupation with the date is a red herring that has diverted the attention from the critical study of the content of the communications for far too long."
He goes on to say later that "The second claim is that the postcard displayed foreknowledge of the Stride and Eddowes killings by referring to a 'double event' in advance of Monday's press reports. Even if we suppose that the card was written on Sunday 30th, this contention is, quite frankly, absurd. Innumerable people knew of the murders on the Sunday and could have alluded to them in conversation or correspondence. Within hours of the discovery of the bodies the news was being circulated by word of mouth throughout the district. Even some editions of the Sunday papers managed to catch the story. 'Successive editions of the Sunday papers were getting a marvelous sale yesterday,' commented Monday morning's Daily News, 'and the contents were devoured with the utmost eagerness.' The Telegraph described the state of 'almost frantic excitement' that prevailed throughout the East End on the fatal Sunday. 'Thousands of people visited both Mitre Square and Berner Street, and journals containing details of the crimes were brought up by crowds of men and women in Whtiechapel, Stepney and Spitalfields.' "
That's what I've been trying to get at here. And your claim of "If we stick to only the proven facts in this case, we'll keep going round and round in circles! Police weren't able to prove enough against anyone!" is true, but there's a difference in expressing belief in a fact that hasn't been proven and stating that a fact has been proven when it actually hasn't.
I'm just saying - be careful.
B |
Alexander Chisholm
Police Constable
Username: Alex
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 10:58 pm: | |
Hi All
While it won’t shed any new light on JtR letters, this report from Lloyd’s Weekly News, 30 Sept. 1888, does show the type of information already in circulation by at least mid-afternoon on the day of the double event.
MORE EAST-END TRAGEDIES
THIS (SUNDAY) MORNING.
ATROCIOUS MURDER OF A WOMAN IN ALDGATE.
THE VICTIM DISEMBOWELLED AND MUTILATED.
HORRIBLE MURDER IN COMMERCIAL ROAD EAST.
About 25 minutes to two o’clock this (Sunday) morning a murder of a most atrocious character, in which the revolting details of the recent tragedies in Whitechapel have been intensified, was discovered by a City policeman on duty in Mitre-square, Aldgate, a thoroughfare at the junction of Leadenhall and Fenchurch streets. A woman, who appeared to be between 35 and 40 years of age, was found lying in the right-hand (south-east) corner of the square, completely disembowelled. Her clothes were thrown over the head, and this revealed the fact that a gash extending right up the body to the breast had been inflicted. There were, in addition, other gashes on both sides of the face, and the nose had been completely severed.
The woman is said to have been respectably dressed, and her figure well developed. The sound of a policeman’s whistle attracted attention to the square, and the first spectators who arrived were despatched for medical and other aid. A most sickening spectacle presented itself. The whole of the inside of the murdered woman, with the heart and lungs, appeared to have been wrenched from the body, and lay, in ghastly prominence, scattered about the head and neck, and on the pavement near.
The police and detectives speedily mustered in force, and blocked the thoroughfares leading to the awful scene, around which the most intense excitement prevailed.
Between 12 and 1 this (Sunday) morning a woman, with her throat gashed and torn, was found in the back yard of 40, Berner-street, Commercial-road E., a few minutes’ walk from Hanbury-street. The premises belong to the International Working Men’s club. Mr. Demship, the steward of the club, went to the yard, and in a corner he discovered the woman. He at once communicated with the police on duty, and assistance was sent for from the Leman-street police-station, from whence officers were despatched with an ambulance. Dr. Phillips was sent for, who came at 1.30 in a cab. Other medical gentlemen subsequently arrived. In comparison with the horrible mutilation of the Mitre-square victim, this was said to be “an ordinary murder,” though reasons exist for believing that the assassin was disturbed, and thus his savage intention unfulfilled.
ANOTHER ACCOUNT.
At an early hour this (Sunday) morning two women were found murdered in the East-end of London. Both had their throats cut in a shocking manner, but in the case of one found in the back yard of a house in Berner-street, Commercial-road, it is thought that the murderer may probably have been disturbed, as there was no further injury to the body. In the second case, which was discovered about three-quarters of an hour later, however, many of the horrors of the recent Whitechapel murders are found to have been repeated. The scene of this tragedy was Mitre-square, Aldgate, which is an essentially business neighbourhood, the only occupants figuring in the directory being Messrs. Harner and Sons, drug merchants; Philps and Bisiker, builders; and Kerley and Fogue, tea merchants. The square is approached from Aldgate by way of Mitre-street and Duke-street, and in another direction from St. James’s-place, two of the thoroughfares leading to it being of the nature of courts. In the south-east corner of the square, just at the back of the premises of Messrs. C. Taylor and Co., picture frame makers, 8 and 9, Mitre-street, the dead body of a woman was found at about 25 minutes to two this morning. The shocking discovery was made by the constable on night duty, Police-constable Watkins, 881. A neighbour, who went to bed early, informed our representative that she was awoke at a little before two o’clock by hearing voices, and on looking out of window saw the policeman waving his lantern and calling to another officer, “Come along here.” As the word was passed along other constables, from different routes, came hurrying up, including Serjeant Herbert Jones, 92, and the scene was soon one of great excitement. When they came to approach the body there is a general agreement that the sight was the most shocking any of the spectators had ever witnessed. The poor woman’s throat had been savagely cut, and there was a large wound on the face, cutting into the nose. Her legs were apart and the clothes thrown right up, revealing the mutilated abdomen. Parts of the entrails had been torn out and were twisted round the neck of the victim. Blood had flowed freely both from the neck and body, saturating the pavement. The report quickly spread that the part of the body missing from Annie Chapman had also been removed in this case, but on inquiry we found that the rumour was unfounded. Information of the crime was quickly sent to the police stations in the district, and doctors were immediately summoned, the two first to arrive being Mr. F. Gordon Brown, of 6, North-buildings, Eldon-street, Finsbury-circus; and Mr. Sequeira, of 34, Jewry-street, Aldgate. They made a minute examination of the body, Dr. Gordon Brown taking a pencil sketch of the exact position in which it was found. This he most kindly showed to the representative of Lloyd’s, when subsequently explaining the frightful injuries inflicted upon the body of the deceased. The throat had been cut from the left side, the knife severing the carotid artery and other parts of the neck. The weapon had then apparently been stabbed into the upper part of the abdomen, and cut completely down. Besides the fearful wound on the face the tops of both of the thighs were cut across. The intestines, which had been torn from the body, were found twisted into the gaping wound on the right side of the murdered woman’s neck. The circumstances under which the revolting crime was committed make it more mysterious than ever. Abundant testimony was afforded by the neighbours that the place was not neglected by the police, it being stated that the night constable got round his beat about every ten minutes. In addition to this several plain-clothes men were on duty in the district, the scene of the latest tragedy being not many hundred yards, as the crow flies, from Hanbury-street, where Annie Chapman fell a victim. Mitre-square is, however, in the City; and the excitement will no doubt be more intense on that account, the persons living near expressing the greatest astonishment that the place should have been selected for such a crime. This (Sunday) morning the lamps were burning brightly, but a curious little circumstance was mentioned by the wife of a caretaker living directly opposite the spot where the murdered woman was found. As she went home with her little girl on Friday night she noticed that the lamp in the north-west corner of the square was so dull that she could scarcely see her way. This must have thrown the pavement on which the body was found into comparative darkness, and may thus have in some way contributed to the selection of the spot by the murderer. The dead woman, who is believed to be over 40 years of age, had her bonnet on. Near where she was lying two or three buttons were picked up, and also a little cardboard box, with a couple of pawntickets, the supposition being that the deceased’s pocket had been hastily turned out by the assassin, either for the purpose of robbery or to ward off suspicion as to the real motive of the crimes which have been carried out with such diabolical cunning. After a very careful examination of the body where it was found, it was at three o’clock removed to the City mortuary in Golden-lane, and here Drs. Brown and Sequeira continued their investigation for a considerable time. The police were of course quickly on the alert, and when our representative reached the neighbourhood every avenue leading to Mitre-square was closely guarded. At the police-station in Bishopsgate Chief Superintendent Major Henry Smith most courteously informed the Editor that the reports furnished to Lloyd’s of the two murders having been committed this morning were unhappily true. On proceeding to Mitre-square, Inspector Edward Collard was found in command, but the orders to deny admission to the scene of the murder were so absolute that one constable assured us he should not allow any plain-clothes men to pass unless he knew them. At twenty minutes past five, when we left the mortuary, after the interview most kindly accorded by Dr. Gordon Brown, there was an expectation on the part of the police that Dr. Phillips, who gave the important evidence in connection with the case of Annie Chapman, would speedily arrive there. So far as could be gleaned from a variety of sources all circumstances of the latest case bear a marked similarity to those of Nichols and Chapman. The murder must, however, have been perpetrated in the dark, and with extraordinary rapidity, as the policeman is said to have patrolled the spot only 10 minutes before. Still the murderer, blood-stained though he must have been, got clear off; and, so far as is known, the police remain without the slightest clue to the succession of startling and horrible Whitechapel mysteries.
LATEST PARTICULARS.
NO CLUE.
On making inquiries at Shoreditch police station, at eleven o’clock to-day (Sunday), we were informed that the police were still without the slightest clue to the mystery. There is a growing belief that the two crimes were committed by one man, as the two bodies were found within a distance of each other which can be easily walked in ten minutes – one shortly after half-past twelve, and the other an hour later.
Best Wishes
alex
|
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2654
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 11:20 pm: | |
Many thanks for posting this article, Alex - I've now added it to the press reports section on the Casebook proper, for easier cross-referencing. 
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 55
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 4:26 am: | |
G'day Everyone,
The book 'Jack The Ripper A-Z', says that the text of 'Dear Boss' was first published in the 'Daily News' on the morning of Monday the 1st of October.
'Saucy Jacky' was printed in 'The Star', in the evening the same day. Facsimiles of the handwriting of both weren't printed until Thurday the 4th of October.
News of a 'Double Event' hit the newspapers on Sunday the 30th of September, so anyone could have known that there was a 'number one' and a number 2. The author of 'Saucy Jacky' wasn't the killer, because there is almost nothing in the content about victim 'number 2', and he had more to brag about with her murder....SUCCESS!
Notice that there was nothing about the condition of either victims EARS in the above reports, nor the promise to send them to the police, nor about the '...last letter..., yet the writer was lucky enough to copy the handwriting of the last letter! He must have at least seen it!
Look at the line: '...You'll hear about saucy Jacky's work tomorrow...' This suggests that the writer wrote the postcard on Sunday the 30th, and hadn't read any newspaper reports about the murders that day!
BRIAN: If you want to compare the fine details of the handwriting:
* The capital 'B' you mention that is similar in both, would have been easy to copy because it was a capital. Notice how it is fatter though. So is the capital 'I'.
* Look at the word 'off', 7 lines from the bottom of the postcard. It's a word in which 'f' is doubled. Look at how different they are! It's as though the writer hesitated.
* Look at the word 'letter' in both. The lower-case 'l' is so different it's not funny!
On page 88 of 'Letters From Hell', there is a facsimile of the handwriting of the letter sent to a witness, which was written in anger:
* The capital 'B' is very similar. 'Boss' & 'But'.
* The capital 'I's are on identical slopes, with a long curly bit at the bottom.
LEANNE!
|
Christopher T George
Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 40
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 7:43 am: | |
Hi, Leanne:
Of course the Saucy Jacky postcard writer had seen the handwriting of the 25 September Dear Boss letter... because he wrote the thing, as Brian and Mr. Sugden stated, which is the most obvious conclusion. And this is quite independent of knowing if the writer was the killer or had any knowledge of clipping ears, although it is evident that word on the street on Sunday, 30 September, let alone reading in the newspapers of 1 October, about the mutilations to Eddowes and the murder of Stride would have been sufficient basis for the content of the postcard.
All the best
Chris |
Tom_Wescott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 2:45 am: | |
Hello all,
Interesting idea, Leanne. But why would the News Agency treat the Dear Boss letter as a joke, tell the police it was a joke, and then follow it up with an imitation? And why mimic the handwriting of the postscript of DB and not the script itself? The natural, hurried handwriting of the postscript would be more difficult to imitate; not to mention the fact that the postcard was NOT written slowly and deliberately. This indicates that whoever wrote the postscript on the DB letter also wrote the postcard. Are you, by chance, suggesting that the News Agency added the DB postscript themselves before sending it off?
Also, what about (and I hate to bring her up) Patricia Cornwell's forensic evidence that the September 24th letter contains "my name is the Ripper", only a coffin is drawn over "the Ripper"? If this is so, then Dear Boss is the second} Jack the Ripper letter.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 9:53 am: | |
Leanne,
First, you are coming dangerously close to forcing me to do an analysis of all three of those damned letters. I've got my textbooks here, and my girlfriend is out of town - this is too tempting.
You are right - the author of the Saucy Jacky postcard WASN'T the killer. And since the same person wrote the Dear Boss letter, the author of that letter wasn't the killer either.
As for the ear clippings, I'll turn to my pal Sugden again. You can read along with me if you've got the book - there's a whole section on the letters (pages 251-270).
First, the matter of the ears. 'The next job I do,' boasted the letter writer, 'I shall clip the ladys ears off and send to the police officers just for jolly.' The threat was not carried out and after the double murder the postcard explained: 'had not time to get ears for police.' Now, it has been alleged that attempts were indeed made to remove the ears of Liz Stride and Kate Eddowes, and this 'fact' has been repeatedly adduced to authenticate the correspondence. Unfortunately for the argument the medical records tell a different story. Dr Gordon Brown, examining Kate's body in Mitre Square, did discover that the lobe of her right ear had been severed. But one detached ear lobe does not constitute evidence of an attempt to remove both ears and, given the extensive mutiliation to Kate's face and head, can scarcely be deemed significant. If the murderer had really wanted to cut off Kate's ears he would have done so. There was certainly time enough, as the intricate cuts to her eyelids and cheeks attest. In the case of Liz Stride the murderer inflicted no injury whatsoever to the vitim's ears. Theer was, it is true, a tear on the lower lobe of her left ear. But this was not a recent injury. It was, as Dr Phillips made clear at the inquest, an old wound, apparently caused by the forcible removal of an ear-ring, and now healed.
So that clears up the ear clippings.
As for my short attempt at analyzing the handwriting, first you say that I can't use the "Capital B" because they are too easy to copy, and then YOU use it to justify linking the October 8th letter with the DB. I don't get it.
B |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
Hi Everyone,
I have read these threads with intrest, however we do not seem to be getting anywhere, I think we would all agree that 99 per cent of all correspondence were the work of hoaxers , and even if we agreed that the Dear Boss letter or one or two others were genuine , it would still get us nowhere in establishing the authorship..
My last word on the letter subject must be the most likely authentic letter was the one saying Jack the Ripper wishes to give himself up, and he could be found at 39 cutler street..
Anybody who knows my correspondence on these posts will know that I consider the number 39 to be significant in these murders, therefore the only letter from somebody claiming to be Jack, mentioning 39 , in my mind has to be argued authentic..
Regards Richard. |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 45
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 7:17 pm: | |
Rich,
Funny, you'd think the Met would've caught him then, giving his home address and all.
B |
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 57
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 3:53 am: | |
G'day everyone,
On page 187 of Cornwell's 'Portrait Of A Killer', she tells of a letter that gives police fill-in-the-blanks for his name and place of work. The fact that Cornwell used an 'omnichrome alternative light source filter' to reveal a barely visible 'Ripper', suggests that 'Dear Boss' wasn't the first written to use the name '-?- the Ripper', because it was penned the day before 'Dear Boss'!
On page 7 of 'Letters From Hell', there is a facsimile of this letter and it's stampless envelope. The handwriting looks very similar to 'Dear Boss', although it slopes downward and to me it looks very unlike 'Saucy Jacky'.
As it didn't have a stamp and 'Dear Boss' did, I'd say the writer didn't intend for it to reach it's recipient. Maybe he dropped it in the street or left it on a desk somewhere, and as it says on the top of the envelope: 'on her magesty's service', the finder popped it in a pillar box.
This could have been the journalist's practice attempt or the killers first communication that he decided not to send because it was a confessional. It looks similar to the threatening letter too!
TOM: 'Why would the News Agency treat the 'Dear Boss' letter as a joke and then follow it up with an imitation?' Why would they have decided to send it to Scotland Yard at all? - To share a joke??? Tom Bulling sent it on the 29th of September, with a covernote that was probably dictated to him by the editor.
Now back to the threatening letter written on the 6th, which was either written by the killer or a hoaxer. Why would a journalist have needed to threaten a witness into silence? Was it written just to add 'weight' to the authenticity of 'Dear Boss'?
Hey, perhaps Tom Bulling was 'Jack the Ripper'!
RICHARD: I've said this before, and I'll say it again:
To prove that the threatening letter was from the real killer to a witness who gave police a description, we first have to believe that 'Dear Boss' wasn't a hoax. Then we can look at this witnesses description and we may have a good one of the real Jack! Ya gotta start somewhere!!!
LEANNE PERRY
|
Richard Brian Nunweek
Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 3:58 am: | |
Hi Brian,
I actually did not mean , the Ripper was living at that address , and awaiting for the police to call with his bloodstained clothes and knive at the ready..
I was just refering to , the coincedence that this was the only correspondence, which has a mention of the number 39. The writer of this could have stated any address ie.. thrawl st, flower and dean st dorset st, etc.
Of course it is possible that 39, cutler street was a lodging house of some discription, and he may have frequented it on occasions, but that is pure speculation.
The Dear boss letter, if you discount the 17th sept one as a modern day hoax, would have been the first correspondence from Jack, but that does not mean that it was from the killer, the actual killer may have only wrote one , if infact any...
Regards Richard. |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 1:43 pm: | |
Rich,
It seems more plausible to me that when someone wrote a letter indicating an address, it was probably someone with a vendetta against the person who lived at that address. I'll have to read back through your posts to see what importance you attribute to the number 39. I agree that the killer "may have only wrote one, if in fact any...".
I just think that a long look into any of the letters is really only good to give us background on the mindset of the average Londoner at the time. We can't link any of the letters to any person conclusively, except for the two women who were caught, so they really don't offer any chances of discovering who Jack was.
B |
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