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Leanne Perry
Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 33
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:17 am: |       |
G'day Chris,
No one can claim to have hard-evidence that a journalist did or couldn't have penned the early 'Dear Boss' letters, because they haven't invented a time-machine yet! This is another possibility that hasn't been explored.
Enthusiasts read the beliefs of Sir Melville Macnaghten and Sir Robert Anderson, and are too ready to accept these beliefs. Obviously these men had no hard-evidence either, otherwise they wouldn't have feared liable prossecution.
Let's look closer at the text of the 25th Sept. letter: '...I have laughed when they look so clever and talk about being on the right track...' If a journalist wrote these words, how could he be certain that the police weren't on the right track at the time?
'...that joke about leather apron...' How could this journalist be certain that Leather Apron wasn't guilty? This letter contained statements that would have made the Central News Agency and the journalist look foolish if the murderer ever was brought to justice.
'The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off and send to the police-officers...' If another murder did occur and the victim's ears were in tact, they would have looked very gullible, wouldn't they? This is why the forged 'Saucy Jacky' gives an excuse for this failure.
Now let's look at the 'Saucy Jacky' postcard again: '...You'll hear about saucy Jacky's work tomorrow...' If this was sent to the Central News Agency, why would they have to read about the murders in the morning papers? This was obviously written with the reading public in mind.
LEANNE PERRY
|
John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 12:15 pm: | |
Oct. 5th Letter (Women of Moab & Midian)
Could someone please post a facsimile of the Oct. 5th letter, or a transcription of same?
Thx!
John
Cheers,
John-e Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 1:20 pm: | |
Never mind the transcription -- just found it:
5 Oct. 1888
Dear Friend
In the name of God hear me I swear I did not kill the
female whose body was found at Whitehall. If she was
an honest woman I will hunt down and destroy her
murderer. If she was a whore God will bless the hand
that slew her, for the women of Moab and Midian shall
die and their blood shall mingle with the dust. I never
harm any others or the Divine power that protects and
helps me in my grand work would quit for ever. Do as I
do and the light of glory shall shine upon you. I must get
to work tomorrow treble event this time yes yes three
must be ripped. Will send you a bit of face by post I
promise this dear old Boss. The police now reckon my
work a practical joke well well Jacky’s a very practical
joker ha ha keep this back till three are wiped out
and you can show the cold meat.
Yours Truly
Jack the Ripper
Cheers,
John-e Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 1:25 pm: | |
yes yes treble event this time, roight roight roight more empty boasting, sounds like Barnardo for sure. Like the ears, no bit of face by post. A most impractical joker, wot? wot?
Cheers,
John-e Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 104
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 5:17 pm: | |
G'day,
The envelope of the 'Moab & Midian' letter, (which is transcribed above), was forwarded to Chief Constable Williamson, at Scotland Yard by Tom Bulling, along with the following covernote:
'Dear Mr. Williamson,
At 5 minutes to 9 o'clock tonight we recieved the following letter the envelope of which you will see it is in the same handwriting as the previous communications.
Dear friend,
In the name of God.....'
Why did Bulling only send the envelope, and stress the similarity of handwriting? Yet he was willing to send the whole 'Dear Boss'?
LEANNE
|
Neal Shelden
Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 30
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 9:44 am: | |
On the subject of "Best" the enterprising London Journalist said to be responsible for the Ripper letters, I was interested to see the following entry on the 1901 census:
EDWARD BEST aged 50, born Germany, British Subject Naturalised, living at St Pancras, occupation: JOURNALIST |
Tom_Wescott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 3:43 pm: | |
Neal,
Wouldn't Edward Best, at age 50 in 1901, be too old to be our Best?
Tom Wescott |
Neal Shelden
Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 31
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 6:33 pm: | |
Hi Tom,
I'm not really sure how old Best was supposed to have been in 1888?
Leanne gave reference to an article from 1966, but I can't remember whether it's about someone called Best still alive in 66, or whether it's about someone deceased?
Edward Best would've been 38 in 1888. If it's not him perhaps it could be someone related to him who lost his job before 1901?
Neal |
John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 9:06 pm: | |
Whether the author of the Dear Friend letter above was Best, Bulling, Barnardo, or some Beast to be named later, it (and its envelope) were written in the same hand as the Sep. 25th "Dear Boss", the Sep. 30th "Saucy Jacky" and the Oct. 6th "You see I know your address" missives. If one's a hoax, then they're all four hoaxes. OR....
If the Ripper was actually a two-man team of freaks, then the "saner" of the two could have penned the boastful batch of four, while the truly cranky one could have penned the Lusk Letter (con Kidne). There's an excellent post here somewhere that delves into this theory, and it's most compelling.
But I still think it was one miscreant, and that the Lusk Letter is probably the only genuine communication from the Ripper. Any thoughts?
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
AP Wolf
Detective Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 12:55 pm: | |
Yes John
Why do you feel that the Lusk letter is the only genuine communication from the Ripper?
I feel this too, very strongly.
But I would be interested to hear your view as well.
For me the essential ingredients are:
It was not sent to a newspaper or the police, and it was sent to an individual of no real importance to the case, but whom was probably loosely known to the killer and he may have perceived Lusk as a local threat to his strange desires.
The sender never intended or expected that the letter would be published.
That is crucial. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 1:07 pm: | |
Hi john, And A.P
Sorry to butt in , but I am sure that the killer feared Lusk and his vigilance committee, if they had got him before the police he was a goner.
It is intresting that several days before he received the parcel he had asked for police protection, for he sensed his house was been watched by a bearded man, who he was frightened of.
Richard. |
AP Wolf
Detective Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 81
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 12:20 pm: | |
Richard
I'm sure you are right, about the killer fearing Lusk, but perhaps 'fear' is too strong a word.
I would maintain that the killer would have been socially aware of Mr Lusk in that neighbourhood, and would have regarded him as a personal threat.
Yes, I like personal threat better than fear.
|
John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 7:59 pm: | |
Why Lusk Letter Possibly Only Genuine One
Hi, A.P.,
My reasons for choosing the Lusk Letter as the only likely communication from the Ripper are very similar to yours:
* It was not sent to a newspaper, the CNS or the police
* It was sent to an individual of no real importance to the case (but who was possibly loosely known to the killer, who may have seen Lusk as a threat to his . . . activities)
* The sender never intended or expected that the letter would be published (though this could also be said of the Oct. 6th "You see I know your address" warning to one of the witnesses.)
* The "kidne" was not charged with formalin or any other preservative of the type used in hospitals, medical schools, etc.; it had been "prasarved" in spirits of wine
* It was in a very similar condition (Bright's Disaese) as the remaining kidne in Catharine Eddowes's corpse
* The handwriting is almost shockingly jagged, violent and twisted; the penman was likely a most degraded, alcoholic individual with a powerful (albeit warped) sex drive
* The writer eschewed the "Jack the Ripper" identity thrust upon him by the other, Dear Boss correspondent, and instead closed with "Catch Me When You Can, Mishter Lusk."
* It was written in a deprecating, stage-Irish vernacular, possibly to poke fun at Lusk himself, whose family could very possibly have been of Irish or Scots-Irish origin (there were still plenty of Irish Cockneys in Whitechapel in those days).
* If the above is true, then it was possibly written by a native English Cockney who knew or knew of Lusk and looked askance at Irishmen.
* OR...it was written by a fellow Irish Cockney in mock salute to his perceived nemesis, Lusk. (I do not believe the writer was attempting to fool anyone that he himself was Irish. I suspect he was taking a poke at Lusk, who possibly spoke with an Irish accent).
And that's about it. As regards the Irishness of the "From Hell" author (and, presumably, its recipient), remember that the man who'd inquired about Lusk's address at the nearby shop the day before (Oct. 15th) was described by the shopgirl as "over 40, about 6 feet tall, with the appearance of an Irish clergyman" [i.e., his collar].
The Fab Four by our Dear Boss correspondent, I feel (lamentably, for they are rather ripping missives...) are probably hoaxes. The Saucy Jacky postcard could have been penned by a local who'd heard or read about the double event on Sunday night (at least two local papers carried articles about it in the Sunday evening post, allowing our writer to pen the postcard and mail it in time for the Mon., Oct. 1st mail pickup). Also, the letters promise things never delivered (ears and a bit of face) and are just too neatly penned and too schoolboy-prankish to be written, I feel, by the deeply sick and twisted individual who'd by then carved up at least four women in the most ghastly fashion imaginable. The "From Hell" letter looks, sounds and feels much more like the genuine thing. The kidne was, I believe, persuasive evidence of its authenticity.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 156
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 1:35 am: | |
G'day John and all,
In 1966, George Lusk's grandson wrote a letter to the editor of 'London Hospital Gazette', indicating that his grandfather believed that the 'From Hell' package was a hoax by someone in the hospital, where he had done some work. Lusk was talked into taking the communication to Lemon Street Police station, three days after he received it.
The kidney was found not to be charged with fluid, but it was said that similar kidneys could be obtained by students or dissecting room porters!
'Letters From Hell' says that George Lusk had received at least one Ripper letter before he received the package. His profile was greatly raised and his name appeared in the newspapers, when he wrote to Queen Victoria about the governments refusal to offer a reward, on the 27th of September 1888.
The Friday before 'From Hell' arrived, Lusk received a letter that showed the Kilburn postmark, and was in a very similar handwriting to that of the postcard sent to a news agency:- 'I write you a letter in black ink, as I have no more of the right stuff. I think you are all asleep in Scotland Yard with your bloodhounds, as I will show you to-morrow night (Saturday). I am going to do a double event, but not in Whitechapel. Got rather too warm there. Had to shift. No more till you hear me again. "JACK THE RIPPER."
The 'Star' of 19 October reported: '....A few days before he received a postcard supposed to come from the same source. It reads:-
Say Boss
You seem rare frightened, guess I'd like to give you fits, but can't stop time enough to let you box of toys play copper games with me, but hope to see you when I don't hurry too much.
Bye-bye Boss'
LEANNE
|
Robert Clack
Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 8:49 am: | |
Hi Leanne
Thanks for posting the above letter and postcard. I vaguely remembered the postcard, but was under the impression it was sent to Doctor Openshaw.
It may be coincidental(as it is such a large area), but Kilburn is in N.W. postal district, the same as the threatening letter dated 6 October.
Rob |
AP Wolf
Detective Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 85
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
John
I'm with you 100% with your thoughts about this letter, apart from the 'Irish' connection.
I have never seen this connection and have always felt that some readers actually read this into the letter for want of a better explanation.
I think my own grammar, spelling and diction would be askance if I had just murdered and butchered someone, fried and ate their kidney, and was wiping the blood of my sleeves, before I cleaned them with turpentine and hid them up the chimney, when I penned a letter to such a busybody as Mishter Lusk.
I see it as a 'mood' letter.
That is what convinces me.
Your thoughts greatly appreciated. |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 592
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 8:28 pm: | |
G'day John,
What are your reasons for concluding that George Lusk had no real importance in this case? His vigilance committee had mega importance! It's members did alot of 'policing' the streets of Whitechapel, seperately from the actual police. I read a newspaper report that said that the two groups got confused and suspected the suspicious actions of each other.
George Lusk also sent the Queen a petition signed by residents, requesting a reward for information. This fact was made public within a newspaper, two weeks before 'From Hell' was sent.
The "kidne" was not charged with formalin, but has anyone considered the person who's responsibility was to charge the corpses?
LEANNE |
John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 28
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 10:40 am: | |
Hi, Leanne,
When I wrote that Lusk was "of no real importance" to the case, I should have written, "of no national prominence" as regards the Whitechapel killings. Unlike the Met or the City of London Police, Lusk was not generally known to the public at large -- not as of Oct. 16th, at any rate -- despite his letter to the Queen. However, I do believe his name was known to the killer, hence the Kidne and From Hell pkg. sent to him rather than the CNS or police.
I stand by my statement that the absence of formalin in the Lusk Kidne indicates strongly that it was in fact removed from a corpse shortly after death, and before the body could be sent to the autopsy room. I doubt the mortician's assistant would have failed to charge the corpse with formalin, especially since it was immediately destined for autopsy and would have to lay about for a day or two beforehand....
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Tiddley boyar
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 6:51 pm: | |
It is interesting to read everyones views on all aspects of the Ripper mystery and in particular the letters.
I can say practically for certain that the Dear Boss letters of 17th and 25th Sept 1888 and the letter of 5th Oct 1888 disclaiming a murder are all sent by the Ripper. The Lusk letter is not sent by the Ripper. There are further letters sent by the Ripper, but the vast majority are all hoaxes. |
Shannon Christopher
Inspector
Username: Shannon
Post Number: 222
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 4:36 am: | |
Tiddley, why send the letter to the central news agency and not the police? There is no way the killer would have known the letter would be read by the editor in chief (who most all of the mail is addressed to; but is actually read by his staff) or that the letter would be taken seriously unless they (the writer, not the killer) worked at the paper as this was not common knowledge, nor was the term, "hold this back" in reference to holding back a story until a more important story had run it's course. The hand that penned the "Dear Boss" letter worked for the news paper, and it is VERY unlikely was the killer...
Shannon
|
lyndsey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:24 am: | |
tom bullen is behind it all
so are there any photos or picture of the man himself |
Tiddley boyar
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 1:07 pm: | |
It was not really important to whom the ripper sent his letters as he knew they would be passed to the police. Why send any correspondence to a Liverpool newspaper? He also never placed stamps on his communications as he knew they would get there due to their nature.
Regards Tiddley boyar |
R.J. Palmer
Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 204
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 7:38 am: | |
Reading Shakespeare t'other night, I wondered about the final couplet from Sonnet #128.
"Since saucy jacks so happy are in this,
Give them thy fingers, me thy lips to kiss."
["jacks" here being the keys of a virginal, a type of early keyboard instrument, but also, evidently, a sort of impudent fellow]
'Saucy Jack'...I wonder...is this a mere coincidence, or should we suspect that our letter-writer was a bit of a Shakespearean? RP |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 404
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 11:59 am: | |
Hi, Tiddley--
Yes there were stamps on the letters supposedly sent by the Ripper. Look at Evans and Skinner's excellent Jack the Ripper: Letters from Hell.
Hi, RJ--
Interesting observation but possibly another coincidence in this case so frustratingly full of coincidences? Let me give the quote some consideration. Of course it might only mean the postcard letter writer, not the murderer, had a penchant for the Bard of Avon. 
Best regards
Chris
(Message edited by ChrisG on November 06, 2003) |
Tiddley boyar
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 2:47 pm: | |
The real killer knew there was no need for stamps on his correspondence to the police as he knew they would be delivered due to their content, he wasn't stupid, in fact quite the opposite. You will see that some don't have stamps on and there is an instance of one having a stamp drawn on the envelope by the sender. By sending letters to the Central News Agency he could practically guarantee their being published and knew they would also be forwarded to the police. Letters to the police may have been held back. The whole point of his writing was a self satisfying purpose, he wanted the notoriety, he wanted to be known but couldn't say who he was. The letters were just part of a game, a game very personal and known only to him.
There are a very small amount of letters from the real Jack. Most letters were from illiterate or semi literate persons, probably either petty criminals intent on goading the police or sent to ordinary people from persons with a grudge against them just to scare them. |
Busy Beaver
Police Constable
Username: Busy
Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 4:02 am: | |
After reading the threads and looking at the Ripper Letters, I'm still convinced that the From Hell letter to Lusk was a hoax due to the spelling errors and the way it's written as it would be spoken. I agree with Mr J Fogarty that the author is taking the mick out of Lusk's accent or they are trying to pen the letter in an Eastern European Accent such as Polish/Romanian etc. The Dear Boss and Saucy Jack letter and Postcard was written by someone quite intelligent and again, by the way it's written, if it is from the Ripper shows a cunning and tongue in cheek attitude towards the crimes. Any chance of a DNA test on the letters?? |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 222
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 11:06 pm: | |
Busy Beaver,
Have you not read Cornwell's book on Walter Sickert? She had some tests done on the ripper letters and some did contain mitochondrial DNA
supposedly relating to Sickert. But that is a long way from saying that Sickert was Jack The Ripper.
Paul |
Dan Norder
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 93
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 1:47 pm: | |
To clarify, the results showed that certain segments of a mixed batch (more than one sample smeared together so components could have come from more than one person) of mitochondrial DNA (which can only be used to compare lineages, not specific individuals) found from someone who touched some letters claiming to be from the Ripper contained some of the same segments as was found left by some unknown person who had touched letters Sickert had written.
I keep trying to come up with an easy to understand comparison to help explain just how inconclusive these results are, but it's an awfully complicated topic. People hear DNA and assume it must be nuclear DNA (the kind that can match people and not lineages) because they don't know the difference.
The problem with trying to do DNA testing on the letters is you don't know where the DNA came from, don't have anything to match it against, and even in the best case scenario all you could ever do is say that the DNA might have come from the same extended family group.
Even if the letters had been preserved in a special way to keep the nuclear DNA from decomposing over the last century, you'd still have the problem of figuring out who it was you just got the DNA of. Was it the letter writer, letter recipient, police who looked at it, people who stored the letters, researchers who looked at them later, or, for all we know, Cornwell herself? There is a reason crime scene investigators use gloves and store things in bags as soon as they were found. None of these letters were treated in an even remotely comparable way.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes |
Busy Beaver
Police Constable
Username: Busy
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 3:49 pm: | |
Paul, I have not read Patricia Cornwall's book, as I'm not terribly convinced of her findings and the press she has received from this site!
Dan, Thanks for your info on DNA testing.
Busy Beaver
|
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 220
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 5:59 pm: | |
Paul and Busy,
I do hope no-one is including the Red ink Ripper letter amongst those tested for DNA. According to Sir Melville Macnaghten's descendants the thing sat framed on a wall in Macnaghten's house for years! |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 2:32 pm: | |
I agree with Dan. There is noway to know whos DNA you have. Even if you got an isolated sample that could be just one person fine, where are the control samples of know suspects and the others involed in the case to be ruled out?
I also agree with Busy that the Lusk letter is the hoax and the the dear boss and other letters to be real. Some have said that Jack would not have sent letter to the police or press, but the boldness of the crimes suggest that the killer had no real fear of being caught and the dear boss and others had the same boldness to them, he was taunting them. As he said "You will soon hear of me with my funny little games" the letters were just another part of his game.
Eric |
Thomas C. Wescott
Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 50
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 1:05 am: | |
Hello all,
It is important to remember that no 'Ripper letter' ever received contains any information which conclusively proves it to have come from the killer. That doesn't mean the Ripper didn't write some, but it'd be impossible to prove he did based on the letters alone. And it's not impossible that the author of the 'From hell' letter and the 'Dear Boss' letter were one in the same...but again, it cannot be proved. In fact, a decent case could be written...and in fact HAS been written, by myself...for D'Onston having written the following letters, among others: the 'Dear Boss' letter, 'Saucy Jacky' postcard, the 'From hell' letter and 'Box of Toys' postcard, and the 'Openshaw letter'. Yet, a decent case does not a smoking gun make, and it's doubtful that D'Onston did, in fact, write all these letters.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Tiddley boyar
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 6:29 am: | |
James Eric Carter wrote: As he said "You will soon hear of me with my funny little games" the letters were just another part of his game.
And there you have the key!
Has no-one tumbled the "funny little game" yet? |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 2:33 pm: | |
Tiddley boyar,
The game was known as "The Whitechaple Murders", all of it. Jack killed a few 'whores' and it started a firestorm. He sat back and watched and laughed. Then to add to it he started sending letters most likely just to thumb his nose at the police, but others picked up on it and more and moe appeared. Whatever his reason for killing in the first place it all became a game to him and he played his part.
Eric |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 70
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 7:36 pm: | |
Eric,
What do you make of the blood smears on the 'Saucy Jacky' postcard. If it was in fact from the killer, do you have any thoughts on what that little design might mean?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Tiddley boyar
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 6:09 pm: | |
The murders were simply murders and not the game. |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:22 pm: | |
Tom,
In looking at the 'Saucy Jack' postcard again, it seems that he either got so caught up in the thrill of having killed two in one night that he couldn't wait to write or he put bloodly prints on it because he couldn't use the blood to write the card itself. Then dropped it in the postbox before it dried, it seems that the big spot in the middle was smeared and wiped down and made an underline below the signature.
The big middle spot could also be another game giving the police a finger print. I know that some tried to get finger printing on the case but the powers that be wouldn't allow it since it was unproven at the time.
I was just looking in "Letters from Hell" at the fac-simile of the postcard on pg33, and if you look at the front and back of the card it almost looks like the hand it was carried in the thumb being the big spot in the middle of the writing. Of corse I could just be smoking crack.
Eric |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 33
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:35 pm: | |
Tddley boyar,
I think that it may have started out as just murders, but grew into the game as the city took notice and as theroies started to fly, if you count the 'dear boss' and 'saucy jack' as comming from the killer, then you can see that he was following the case and turned it all into a game.
Eric |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 75
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 12:03 am: | |
Eric,
If the blood was from the victims, and Jack wrote the note in haste following the murders, then why was the blood put on AFTER the ink? In other words, he wrote it with clean hands,THEN smeared it with blood/ink.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 37
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 1:38 am: | |
Tom,
That's true but it also looks like the blood/ink was on his fingers not his hands/palms, so it would be possible to write the note without a lot of transfer then pick it up putting most of the transfer on it at that point. Which also lends to the thought of the spots being wet when dropped in the postbox.
On that, do you know offhand what kind on postboxes they had in London at that time?
Eric |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 79
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 3:37 pm: | |
Eric,
Post boxes, I believe, were called 'pillar boxes', or 'pill boxes'. An illustration appears in Evans/Skinner's 'Letters From Hell'.
As to the postcard, go drench your fingers in ink/blood and then withdraw a postcard from your drawer, take it to the desk, sit down and write, flipping it over to write on the other side, and all the while not get any ink/blood on it UNTIL you're done. Hard to do. No, our letter writer intentionally smeared the ink/blood on it. What that means, I don't know.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 40
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 11:42 pm: | |
Tom,
That's true as well. Then again just to fuel the fire, he could have had blood/ink on one hand. But, yeah it still would have been intentional. As to why, didn't the 'Dear Boss' say something about getting 'spots' on it because he did't clean up first? Adds to the idea that it was by the same hand. Jack's? Maybe.
Latters,
Eric |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 10:17 pm: | |
Eric,
Nobody is questioning that the 'Dear Boss' letter and 'Saucy Jacky' postcard were from the same author. That's obvious. If someone IS questioning it, they need just to compare the letter's postscript with the postcard.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 1:12 am: | |
Tom,
But do you think that the author was Jack?
Latters,
Eric |
Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 285
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 8:52 am: | |
Hi Tom & Eric,
Tom, you wrote: “No, our letter writer intentionally smeared the ink/blood on it. What that means, I don't know.”
I agree that this writer intentionally smeared whatever it was – probably just ink – on the postcard. I think the smears only added to the image the writer wanted to create for the killer (he) called Jack the Ripper, the image of a taunting killer who thrived on the fear he created among the public. It’s completely in line with the taunting contents of the missives.
I don’t think the genuine killer wrote the ‘Dear Boss’ letter and the ‘Saucy Jack’ postcard. In my view the killer was a local man, who knew his ‘hunting grounds’ at his fingers ends and killed close to his home. That’s mainly why he didn’t get caught. Living in the East End, I don’t think he was used to writing, whereas the writer of the ‘Dear Boss’ letter and the ‘Saucy Jack’ postcard clearly was.
I think the Ripper was probably kind of a loner, who managed reasonably well in society but certainly didn’t stand out or wanted to stand out. I don’t think he was looking for notoriety or games and therefore, I don’t think he wrote any letters for those reasons. He may have written the ‘From Hell’ letter, but only to let people know that he and only he was the genuine killer, and not someone else calling himself Jack the Ripper, authenticating the letter with part of the kidney.
These are only my views, I may be wrong though.
All the best,
Frank
|
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 107
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 9:41 pm: | |
Frank,
I understand your points, but in regards to your observation about the 'From Hell' letter. Many people make the mistake of thinking that because it wasn't signed 'Jack the Ripper', that he may have been disavowing that identity. Keep in mind, however, that Lusk received the 'Box of Toys' postcard only days before, which was in the same hand, and started off with 'Say Boss...'. So, the writer of 'From Hell' had tied himself in with the original letter. Incidentally, the postcard wasn't signed 'Jack the Ripper', either, and was similar in tone to the 'Openshaw' letter.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 759
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 3:00 pm: | |
Hi, Frank and Tom
Yes, Tom, and the Openshaw letter was signed Jack the Ripper. All of which points up the problems of coming to grand conclusions on limited evidence.
All the best
Chris |
Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 287
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 6:06 pm: | |
Hi Tom,
Thanks for bringing up the 'Box of Toys' postcard. I only very vaguely remember having read something about an earlier message to Lusk. Well, if it was really in the same hand as the 'From Hell' letter and opened with ‘Say Boos…’, to me that would diminish the chance that it came from the genuine killer.
Can you (or anybody) produce a copy of that postcard, or at least produce the text? I would very much appreciate that!
And Chris,
Your rite about droring conclusions from limited evadence.
All the best,
Frank
|
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 104
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 9:32 pm: | |
Hi Frank
The text of the “box of toys” postcard can be found in the Star, 19 October 1888, in the Casebook press section.
http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/star/s881019.html
Best Wishes
alex
|
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 110
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 11:11 pm: | |
Chris,
You misread my words. I said the 'Box of Toys' postcard was not signed 'Jack the Ripper' and was in the same tone as the 'Openshaw' letter. Obviously I would know the Openshaw letter was signed JTR, as I wrote an article about it for RN.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
|
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