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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » General Discussion » Notable Persons » George Aikin Lusk « Previous Next »

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Monty
Sergeant
Username: Monty

Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ive tried searching.....cant find a thing.

So I was wondering if anyone can help.

Can any of you wonderful beautiful people out there tell me about the life, times and death of our most favourite vigilante chairman.....I would be greatful.

Monty
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Scott Medine
Sergeant
Username: Sem

Post Number: 30
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On or about 4 October 1888, George Lusk informed the police that he was being “stalked,” for all intents and purposes and lack of a better term, by a strange man. The police provided someone to watch over Mr. Lusk. Does anyone know when the protection of George Lusk started and stopped and the outcome of the police protection?

Peace,
Scott
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John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All:

I believe there's a very good post here, regarding Lusks's antecedants, genealogy, etc. I've tried digging up nuggets from the net, but all I could find were general genealogical notes for various Lusks. The indications are that Lusk is an Irish or Scots-Irish surname....which brings the odd vernacular of the Lusk Letter to mind -- "Sor," "prasarved," "Mishter," etc., being blatant attempts at mimicking a "stage Irish" accent. Any thoughts?
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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Scott Medine
Sergeant
Username: Sem

Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John,

While in the army, I served with a man named Lusk. He was a First Sergeant and he was Irish. He would kindly inform the men that the last thing on Earth that they wanted to do was tempt his Irish temper.

Anyway, I find it interesting that Mr. Lusk receives a letter from somone trying to pass off an Irish accent.

Peace,
Scott
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Kris Law
Police Constable
Username: Kris

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I often wonder if the writer of the letter was someone who knew Lusk, and had reason to dislike him. It's been my experience that the types of people who join vigilance commitees are usually alpha-male bully types, and I wonder if this was anything like Mr. Lusk? If this were the case it wouldn't be unlikely that someone may take it upon themselves to try to put a bit of a scare into him, and even include the Irish-isms as a way of saying "Yes, I know you" . . .

There have been times when I've even questioned whether Mr. Lusk might not have been the Ripper himself. It would be a good cover, would it not?
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 461
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kris,

Man, you are on the ball.

Monty
:-)
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Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 457
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

See next post



(Message edited by ChrisG on December 03, 2003)
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Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 458
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Monty:

Aye either Kris is on the ball or he has a lot of balls. juggler

By the way, although we appear to know less about Mr. Lusk than we do about Albert Bachert, it would seem that from all we know of the latter, friend Bachert was an aggressive alpha-type. As you probably know, Bachert succeeded Lusk as chairman of the vigilance committee in 1889 after the organization apparently became inactive.

However, although Lusk and Bachert perhaps deserve greater scrutiny there's a long distance from that to saying that either of 'em could have been the murderer. In the case of Bachert, he may not have been anything more than a zealous busybody who inserted himself into the case but who was not the murderer, a characterization that might also fit Roslyn D'Onston.

All the best

Chris



(Message edited by ChrisG on December 03, 2003)

(Message edited by ChrisG on December 03, 2003)
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David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin

Post Number: 194
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Chris

You might be interested to know that Alex Chisholm sent me some mail in which he references a couple of newspaper articles that indicate Lusk's Vigilance Committee had ceased operations before Mary Kelly was killed and that a new organization was formed Nov. 13 at the Paul's Head Tavern in Spitalfields in the wake of her murder. Perhaps that was the point where Albert Bachert entered the picture.

It's interesting to speculate that maybe the attention Lusk received in October, 1888 might have led to his getting out of the vigilante business (although Lusk's son later said that his father thought of the kidney as a sick prank). I can't think of any other reason why the Committee should have dissolved that October, if it indeed did.

The articles I'm referring to are the Nov. 10 editions of the Telegraph and Star.

Cheers,
Dave
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 742
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi
some time back I dug up some stuff on Lusk and Im posting below- may be of interest
Chris

George Lusk

1881 census

Address:
1 Tollit Street, London

Head:
George Lusk aged 40 in Stepney, Middlesex
Master Builder Employing 20 men and 1 boy
Wife:
Sussanah Lusk aged 38 born Stepney
Children:
Albert aged 17 born Bethnal Green - Plumber
Walter aged 16 born Bethnal Green - Carpenter
George aged 11 born Stepney
Edith aged 9 born Mile End
Maud aged 5 born Mile End
Grace aged 4 born Mile End


1891 census
Address: as 1881

Head:
George A Lusk aged 47 born Stepney
Builder and Contractor
Widowed
Children:
Albert A aged 29 born Victoria park - Plumber
Walter L aged 26 born Victoria park - Carpenter
George A aged 22 born Mile End - Builder's Clerk
Edith R aged 19 born Mile End
Maud F B aged 16 born Mile End
Grace L aged 14 born Mile End
Lilian aged 9 born Mile End


Also in 1881 census the followng houehold, most likely a brother of George.

Address:
8 Skidmore Street, London

Head:
Charles M Lusk aged 38 born Stepney - House painter
Wife:
Emma B Lusk aged 34 born Bethnal Green - Tailor's machinist
Children:
Emma J aged 13
Charles W aged 11
Jesse A aged 9 (Female)
Alfred R aged 3
Harry P aged 1
All children born in Stepney
Other:
William G Rabbits aged 15 born Stepney - Tailor's porter

The marriage was registered in June 1886 at St George's east between Charles Lusk and Emma Bailey.
To date I can no trace of either in the 1891 census.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 1467
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 4:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi

I suppose Lusk stood to gain financially if the JTR crimes prompted slum redevelopment.

Also, the business with Marsh and the tall man smacks of an Agatha Christie plot. He couldn't have done much more than he did to be noticed and remembered! It's almost as if Lusk was worried people would think he'd sent himself the parcel, so took steps for an accomplice to make an appearance, in a manner that would be remembered.

None of which means that he was JTR, of course.

Robert
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 1468
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 4:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty, re your Lusk query : did you see the snippet in Ripperologist No. 43? Apparently Lusk was a member of the Doric Lodge, but was excluded in 1889 for non-payment of dues.

The dues are not the things that will be paid for nothing.

Robert
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Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash

Post Number: 217
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 5:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suspiciously, according to Chris's post, our Mr Lusk appears to have only aged 7 years between 1881 and 1891. Perhaps this confirms the whole time-travelling and being chased to modern day San Francisco by H.G.Wells theory.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 1469
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 5:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alan, and if that's him in the 1901 census, he'd only aged another 8 years by then!

Woodwormholes in the space-time continuum!

Robert
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Mark Groak
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've always thought the Goulston street graffiti shows the same (deliberate?) tortured grammar and spelling as the Lusk letter, maybe we should try reading it in an exaggerated Irish accent too.
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 466
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert,

Didnt see the article but the info was passed on to me.

Ok Guys, a pointer.

Look at the assaults/murders prior to Nichols...there locations.

Look at the assaults/murders after Kelly...there locations.

Yards....look at the yards.

Then look at Eddowes statement that she knew who the Killer was.

Then see where Kate like to spend an evening.

Then find out where that place was.

Then find out who did a bit of work there (via the book LETTERS FROM HELL).

Just something that got me thinking....thats all !!

Monty
:-)
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Kris Law
Police Constable
Username: Kris

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When did Eddowes say she knew who the killer was?
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Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash

Post Number: 224
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kris

East London Observer, 13th October

A reporter gleaned some curious information from the Casual Ward Superintendent of Mile End, regarding Kate Eddowes, the Mitre-square victim. She was formerly well-known in the casual wards there, but had disappeared for a considerable time until the Friday preceding her murder. Asking the woman where she had been in the interval, the superintendent was met with the reply, that she had been in the country "hopping". "But," added the woman, "I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him." "Mind he doesn't murder you too" replied the superintendent jocularly. "Oh, no fear of that," was the remark made by Kate Eddowes as she left. Within four-and-twenty hours afterwards she was a mutilated corpse.
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Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash

Post Number: 225
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seriously though, the fact that he kept knocking years off his age says quite a lot about the sort of man he was.
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Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 459
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Mark

Your observation about possible similarity between the Goulston Street inscription and the Lusk letter might be valid as far as the grammatical syntax goes. However, remember that it was observed at Eddowes' inquest that the writing on the wall was written in "a round schoolboy's hand" which implies neat copperplate writing, a description which hardly fits the untidy penmanship of the letter to Lusk.

Best regards

Chris George

P.S. And I didn't use the word "graffito" once! Whoops, I just did. . . laugh

(Message edited by ChrisG on December 04, 2003)
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Donald Souden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Supe

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alan,

"the fact that he kept knocking years off his age...."

Didn't we just hear you have a "big one" (birthday) coming soon? Keep your comment in mind when it happens -- and preemptory birthday best wishes!

Don.
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Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 460
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, All

In the matter of Lusk seemingly losing years in age at each census, from what I can gather this appears to be a regular occurrence in census data, that ages and other demographic details are inconsistent between records. This shows I think that census data should be used with care since it is after all oral information given by the householder and not information coming from official birth certificates. Even though the census data has the aura of being "true" it might not be accurate. In reality, the census information provides an indicator to the facts but probably should not be taken as absolutely factual without independent verification from other official sources such as birth and death certificates, parish registers, etc.

Best regards

Chris George
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Kris Law
Police Constable
Username: Kris

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just for the record, i didn't mean to disrespect Mr. Lusk by implying I think he was the Ripper, in fact he is not the suspect I beleive did it, I was only saying that, of course, his position would be a good screen.

My real point was that the letter seems to be very mocking, and I just wonder if Mr. Lusk didn't make a few enemies who felt justified in throwing a scare into him.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 1479
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Kris

Suppose Lusk had been moaning that the graffito hadn't been "prasarved". It might have been someone's idea of a joke to send him another "clue" to replace it. Maybe a disgruntled policeman? Maybe a workman he'd sacked?

Robert
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Kris Law
Sergeant
Username: Kris

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert,

Yes, exactly. Or maybe even the Ripper himself sent it, perhaps Lusk knew him, without realizing it. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the Ripper was actually a member of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee.
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Vincent
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"It's been my experience that the types of people who join vigilance commitees are usually alpha-male bully types."
Now I know why I joined the neighborhood watch!
Didn't the receipt of the kidney put Lusk into a bit of a sweat? Seems odd behavior for a true alpha male.
Gotta run, I think I see a grade-school truant who needs a damn fine hiding.

Regards, Vincent
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Mark Groak
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 4:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I really like John R's idea above about the letter been written in a comedy Irish accent - not sure if it's been pointed out before - it is exactly what it sounds like if you read it out. Not sure how there could be a link to the graffito but they certainly sound very similar
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Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash

Post Number: 232
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mark, the accent in question is what was known as "stage oirish" and was very popular in the theatres of the victorian era and was what led to the popular stereotype of the Irish being stupid. It tends to suggest that if this accent in the letter was intentional then the writer was a regular theatregoer.
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr

Post Number: 156
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some time back, someone else enquired about George Lusk's background.Or was it to do with a Masonic cover-up and the police?
It was the Joseph Sickert theory which involved high-powered masons.I posted a link to an Australian (Victorian)masonic site which carried not only an analysis of the Sickert JTR theory but also a photo of George Lusk's masonic apron and details of the two Whitechapel lodges and police detectives Lusk would have known!
(It also says Sickert's Cleveland Street studio was pulled down by 1888 and several other very interesting things.I'll try to go back and find the link again).
You may be interested to learn of the allegation some of JTR's murders occurred on Lodge nights!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2588
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lusk's business affairs were going through a bumpy patch in 1891, according to this brief mention in the "Times" for April 29th :

lusk

Robert
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 1158
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert
since I first became involved in this comedy of errors I have always rated Lusk as a bit of a wide boy, you know the type who is going to tarmac your driveway for a hundred quid and you end up with a rusty Ford Transit up to its axles in the mud of your garden and a bill for four grand. Them sort love to play vigilante.
I don't believe being a Mason makes you guilty of anything, apart from wearing silly clothes and swearing undying allegiance to bastards you would rather bury at next daybreak.
It is simply one of those things men use to exclude that other class, dangerous but useful to the Colony as it provides adhesion to a weaker class.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2590
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi AP

Well, he isn't on my suspect list. Nor is it true that when he saw the kidney he gave a sharp intake of breath and cried, "What a terrible job!"

Robert
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John Fogarty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AP --

Well said, Sor. Also, didn't one of the Met chiefs declare that the Goulston Graffito "sounded" as if it had been written by an Irish hand? Not implying it was Lusk, mind you, but perhaps some other Irish Cockney in the neighborhood. (Not Joe Barnet, necessarily, but someone very like him, who might have been a member of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee? And maybe knew and feared Lusk?)

Food for thought.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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stevo
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi can anyone help stevo in the search for a copy of the vigilance committee royal petition or petition to home office asking for an amnesty and reward}}}
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 297
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all

found this in the East London Advertiser, Saturday 13 October 1900.



I noticed this advert in several issues around the same date. It looks like his fortunes improved after 1891.

Rob
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Jim DiPalma
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jimd

Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Rob,

Interesting. I've never heard of Lusk's occupation being anything but a builder, but it seems that by 1900 he had branched out into insurance and property management.

Cheers,
Jim
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 1278
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes Rob,
I came upon a few interesting references to Lusk's business interests... but have lost them now. See if I can't find them again.
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 1281
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Music halls that's what it was. He renovated and built music halls:

'George Akin Lusk, a builder who specialized in the restoration of music halls. Lusk attained a high profile for himself by writing about the case in the Times.'

And this is probably why:

'As early as 1887 the Financial News was recommending (15th February) that investors put their money into the music hall, remarking, prophetically enough:
whenever it had been decently and prudently managed it had yielded large fortunes if it continues to refine itself and heap novelty on novelty as it does, it will go on growing.

Wouldn't it just be dandy if he revamped the Lyceum along with Stoker and Irving?
I'll dream on.
Lusk was also a vestryman.
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 299
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi AP

I remember hearing somewhere that Wiltons Music Hall in Whitechapel, closed down during the Autumn/Winter of 1888. Something to do with local pressure, as they were more or less (in the East End anyway) glorified knocking shops.

Rob
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 1285
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are right, Rob, something was going on there which shouldn't have been as the following extract shows:

The History of Wilton's - London's Oldest Music Hall


The Music Hall Years
Wilton's on Fire
From Music Hall to Mission
Saving Wilton's
Film and TV at Wilton's
Local Events
The Waste Land
Wilton's Lives Again - Broomhill Opera
Recent Events
Forthcoming Events

see also the BBC's Wilton's Timeline

For bookings please go to http://www.wiltonsmusichall.co.uk/


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The Music Hall Years

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Wilton's on Fire

In 1877 the building was gutted by fire. A local newspaper reported that, "The Hall presents a scene of utter destruction; here and there a portion of the balcony on either side rests on the tottering pillars underneath, and in other respects the interior is burnt to ashes, nothing but the bare walls remaining".

Undeterred, Wilton refitted the hall, and it was reopened on 16 September 1878. In his journal, Wilton recorded, "What a cheer from a packed auditorium greeted Mr Condell when the band struck up the National Anthem and Mr Estcourt took his place to introduce the artistes."


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From Music Hall to Mission

John Wilton died in 1881, aged 60. Wilton's continued to operate as a music hall. In 1884, three local Methodists attended a performance and were profoundly shocked by what they saw. According to a later account published by the Methodist Church, "they fell on their knees in the centre of the hall, and in view of the onlookers and stage prayed that God would break the power of the devil in the place". Wilton's was taken over by the East End Mission of the Methodist Church in 1885 and reopened as a church in 1888. The building was rumoured to be haunted, possibly by the ghost of a murder victim, but I have been unable to find any record of a murder taking place there.

The Mission retained Wilton's original decor, even though the hall was eventually used for a variety of Mission activities ranging from film shows to badminton. One twentieth-century clergyman recalled forcing open a door which had been locked since the 1880s, and finding 200 beer mugs!

In the 1898 Dock Strike workers at the Mission served 2,000 meals a day to the strikers. During the Second World War it offered support ot the local community thorughout the Blitz, under the leadership of the Rev Tom Collins, who is still remembered affectionately in the area.

During the 1950s Mission staff set up a mobile cinema which operated in the streets of the East End. They also organised seaside holidays for impoverished Stepney residents. The picture above right shows the outside of Wilton's in the 1950s. For my parents' memories of working there in the 1940s and 50s, click here. (An article on the work of the Mission at this time appeared in the Methodist Recorder of 13 May 1999).

Wilton's was used by the Mission until 1956, after which the building was sold and used as a rag warehouse.'

From riches to rags then.
One wonders if our Lusk might have been involved in the work after the fire?


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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 301
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi AP

Fascinating stuff, surprised it wasn't turned into a Bingo hall.

I remembered my source. It was the BBC Timewatch program "Shadow of the Ripper" shown around 1988.
The program also showed the inside of Wiltons and it was very rundown and derelict. I am quite surprised it wasn't torn down, and a 24 hour Tescos put in its place, very glad it wasn't.
The same fate befell a music hall in Camden (The Bedford?), I saw footage of it in the sixties and all the great decor was crumbling. What a waste.

Rob
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 1292
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Rob
I managed to track down a builder's history of Wiltons, but it fails at the essential point:

'Wilton's
Graces Alley,
Wellclose square,
Tower Hamlets

Other names:
Prince of Denmark public house
Mahogany bar (by c.1839)
Albion saloon (by 1843)
1874 Fredericks royal palace of varieties
1888 Beulah Gospel mission
Old mahogany bar mission

Original architect
1859 Jacob Maggs

Later works
1878 Probably J. Buckly Wilson of Wilson, Wilcox and Wilson of Swansea: reconstruction after fire, introduction of raked auditorium floor.
1888 Unknown: converted to mission hall'

The 'unknown' refers to the builder who carried out the renovation.
Given Lusk's religious leanings I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't involved.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2866
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi AP, Rob

Is my memory deceiving me, or was "Estcourt" the name Abberline gave to the home he bought after he retired?

Robert
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 303
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi AP. Robert

Estcourt rang a bell with me. I just couldn't place it until you mentioned Abberline's retirement home. And yes you'r right, it is mentioned in the beginning of Rumbelow's book.

I don't know the exact dates but Wilton's was converted into a mission hall in the Autumn of 1888.

If I get a chance in the next month, I'll take a look at some local papers, there should be some mention of who was doing the renovation.

Rob
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 313
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all

I looked through a book today (Sorry forgot to take down Title and details) about John Wilton. The book is extracts from his diary about Wiltons Music Hall. There is a couple of mentions of a Mr Lusk probably our George.

2nd November 1869

Mr. Robinson is to hold his First Annual Benefit on the 15th instant, and the painters and gliders are busy already under the superintendance of Mr. Lusk of Stepney Green.

7th April 1873

Wilton's re-opened tonight after the various alterations and re-decorations had been completed under the supervision of Mr. Lusk.

Young George Fredericks in a short speech described the evening as his 'inaugural night', for although he had taken over the hall earlier, the bills has been booked by his father-in-law. Mr. Lusk was introduced to the audience, and Carrie's ballet augured well for further scenas of like content.


Rob

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