| Author |
Message |
    
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 9:02 am: | 
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Baron [ soon to be King of Beers ]:
Just to clarify..this description of " good schoolboy hand" refers [ as we know ] to the quality,not the hand behind the GSG....
I don't think there's the slightest chance at all that a "kid" or "youth" wrote the message...not that that matters...but its the description of the style or manner in which the message was written that was "good schoolboy".
Go to Baltimore,homes...There will be beer,bonhomie,and breakfast at 3 A.M. in a local diner after a night of "good schoolboy elbow bending"...I'm sure. |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 69
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 9:44 pm: |
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Mr. Radka wrote: "Whoever he was, he was able to handle a negative future passive in correct grammatical form, no easy feat for most modern-day college seniors...." Mr. Brown answered: “This begs the question...Why would such a sentence be asked to re-construct? Its improper English and a total waste of time. Why would college seniors be asked to supply something such as a replica of the syntax of the GSG to ascertain their abilities in English?”
>>What question is begged? What does “re-construct” mean? What is improper English—Do you refer to the double negative in the graffitus? But that clearly wasn’t what I was talking about. To what are you referring? What is a total waste of time, and why? I’m not talking syntax; I’m talking grammar—the negative of a future tense, passive voice. I’ve never asked students to “supply a replica of syntax”—I’m remarking that most of them are nonplussed by future tense, passive voice in any context—not specifically the context of the graffitus.
I have no idea what Mr. Brown may be talking about in the above passage. Can anyone here please explain it to me? How about Mr. Brown’s buddies, Mr. Wescott and Mr. Norder? Why don’t they pitch in and give Mr. Brown a hand here, so I can determine what he’s talking about, and respond to it?
The above passage of Mr. Brown is a travesty. It is among the most reprehensible misuses of the English language I’ve seen.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2362
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 6:47 am: |
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Hi How,
Andy wrote:
...it is quite likely that some merchant wrote the message himself with his handy chalk.
And you countered with:
If it is "quite" likely, then that begs the question as to what possible reason a capitalist vendor would alienate his clientele?
What if Jack was that merchant - or dealer (I imagine prices of merchandise would be chalked up pretty constantly during a working day) - and wanted his clientele to be blamed for his own work?
And of course, if he were a commuting merchant, his own clientele would be unaffected... 
Love,
Caz
X |
Spiro
Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 30
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 7:19 am: |
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Hello Mr David Radka,
Please, allow me to be your buddy and attempt to explain to you, quite simply, what Mr Brown may possibly have meant.
The only possible answer, that is in an existential and purely diametrical context, to nonsense is nonsense, unless it was to make no sense at all. Clearly the intention of the author of the GSG.
Mead wine all round. 
(Message edited by auspirograph on November 25, 2005) |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1181
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 8:47 am: |
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Dave:
You stated that you had instructed kids in a classroom to create sentences such as the GSG,correct,paisano?
"no easy feat for most modern-day college seniors, as I can attest having taught them.-Dave
Not that it is germane to this thread,but why would any teacher waste their time attempting to instruct college seniors on how to fabricate a sentence that was incorrect? Never heard of such a travesty of taxpayer money being utilized in such a fashion.
But you dug what I meant,daddio. |
c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 79
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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I am wondering now if the GSG could have been a response to some other graffiti in which Jews was spelled Jewes. So the author of the GSG is responding and mocking the other grafitti as if to say "fool, you can't even spell jews correctly."
Also, barring some hidden meaning, if the writer were a Jew, surely he would know how it is spelled. Wouldn't he? |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1702
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 2:23 pm: |
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Hi c.d.
You do bring up an excellent possibility that I don't think has been proposed before when you said,
"I am wondering now if the GSG could have been a response to some other graffiti in which Jews was spelled Jewes. So the author of the GSG is responding and mocking the other grafitti as if to say 'fool, you can't even spell jews correctly.'"
An interesting idea, c.d. The graffito could then be just part of the "coversation" of which we are only witness to one part.
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 82
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
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Thanks,Chris.
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then."
c.d. |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 70
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 5:34 pm: |
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'The graffito could then be just part of the "coversation" of which we are only witness to one part.'
>>Conuscipiently lewd and promiscuous speculation. There is no evidence for this whatever. Do you think the police of the time were utterly stupid?
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Lindsey Millar
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 512
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 6:57 pm: |
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David, Hon,
Just "speculation" would have done.
C.T., you couldn't explain what you mean a little further, could you? Might help.
Hugs,
Lyn
Although present on the occasion, I have no clear recollection of the events leading up to it.
Winston Churchill
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1182
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 8:23 pm: |
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"The above passage of Mr. Brown is a travesty. It is among the most reprehensible misuses of the English language I’ve seen."--a college graduate with three degrees under his belt [ actually, it should read,the above passage by Mr. Brown ]
Umm...Insp. Sesquipedalia Maximus:
Not hoping to appear to be conspicuously contumacious to your superior self,but in attempting to impress with your post above...
..dere ain't no such word as Conuscipiently
..at least not in dese books what I got on de Inglish Langwidge....
H.Brown, Prof. of Big Words
Univ. of Fartford, Fartford,Ct.
(Message edited by howard on November 25, 2005) |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1703
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 8:25 pm: |
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Hi David
We should leave ourselves open to all possibilities. c.d.'s idea is something that I had not at least heard before and is worth thinking about. I do not say the police of the day were stupid but in some ways they were certainly hidebound in terms of some of their thinking.
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 84
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 9:21 pm: |
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Speaking soley for myself, I have seen grafitti "battles", if you will, in which each author responds to his opponent's previous message in an attempt to belittle and outdo what has been written previously. The GSG might be such a case. A skirmish in the battle between pro-Jews and anti-Jews although I am not sure which side the GSG represents. A quick erasure of an opponent's message would help to win the battle which might explain why the police didn't pick up on what was going on. Pure speculation of course.
Had an original message contained the word "jewes", a quick and angry response might have used the same spelling without realizing that it was incorrect.
Professor Brown - I did get a kick out of your response to Mr. Radka.
c.d. |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 71
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 9:27 pm: |
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Please excuse my misspelling of the word concipient. Too bad Mr. Brown isn't smart enough to work out the meaning from what I wrote.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1183
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 9:34 pm: |
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C.D. and C.G.
You know something? C.D. is right. People do perform "graffiti battles" ! Why didn't anyone think of that before?
Thats good thinking C.D. You get an A for your creative thinking,sir.
Prof.Putz
Nah,Dave...I didn't go to Bethune-Cookman or Tuskegee or Harvard or whatever it was like you did. You be smarter than me is.
(Message edited by howard on November 25, 2005) |
Lindsey Millar
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 514
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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C.D., C.T. and H.B..
You know, that is a different thought. Saw something of the sort just the other week in a Ladies. Old messages scribbled over and new messages left. As if it were an ongoing argument or similar. I was there for close to half an hour trying to figure out what it was all about.
(Try explaining that one to the other half, girls.)
That is what y'all are meaning, right?
David,
Are you meaning "incipient"?
That would fit with what I think you were trying to say - although I still think a simple "speculation" would have said it better. Well, without so much confusion, perhaps. And it might have been a little more polite too.
Hugs,
Lyn
Although present on the occasion, I have no clear recollection of the events leading up to it.
Winston Churchill
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Maria Giordano
Chief Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 521
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 9:22 am: |
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I believe the word was:
"concupiscent"
which means "horny".
Never speak plain English when a confusing term is available. That's the motto of those out to make an impression.
Mags
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 9:44 am: |
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No,no,no..Maria....you silly lady...
Its cornucopulantidisestablishmentarianism..someone who does the wild thing with an ear of corn for political reasons. Its in the Fartford/Fisher-Price Book of Big Words,Vol. 1, A-R.... ....page 1888. A standard reference work en mi casa... |
Maria Giordano
Chief Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 523
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 10:42 am: |
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Well, babe,su casa es mi casa it appears.
And since this is the season for ears of corn...suddenly it's all becoming clear to me!
BTW, did someone mention the Goulston Street Graffiti?
Mags
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Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 283
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:50 am: |
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CD is right about Graffiti battles. As I said earlier, it could even have been someone taking preexisting graffiti and doctoring it up, either as an insult, or to change the meaning. The "Jewes" or "Juwes" could have even been a gang name. Maybe it was the "Juves" a play on "Juvenile". Inner city Polish Jews representing. Why not?
We had a lot of gangs in New York. There must have been some hooligans in London as well. I'm betting some of Howie's ancestral units passed through London around that time.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 12:01 pm: |
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Baron:
Thats would be a sucker bet,Mike..but my ancestral peeps were "Too illit to writ"
But hoodlums? Yeah...probably. |
Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 284
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 3:19 pm: |
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How,
And mine weren't speaking English until after the Great War.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
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Getting back to C.D. and C.G.'s mention of the possibility of rival gangs [ gangs in New York often had hundreds of members..don't know about the Big Smoke]...but I believe A.P. once mentioned gangs were pretty substantial in size in London..
...then chalk would be the "spraycan" of the day. Chalk wouldn't be something limited to business or school or even the local tailor.
Theoretically, something may have transpired between individuals in rival gangs...one felt it necessary to send a message to another....here comes Jack...sees the message...and just drops the apron. He drops it because it caught his eye as he stopped for a moment in the front section of the Wentworth...gave it a glance...and unconsciously leaves it there without any eerie or intentional connotation implied...
...you never know.
I hear you Mike..some of same over here too. |
c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 90
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 5:24 pm: |
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It wouldn't even necessarily have to be gang members, just anyone with strong pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish sentiments who wanted to make their views known.
c.d. |
Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 285
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 5:53 pm: |
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Cd,
Right. Gangs is just taking it a step further. More fuel for the "Jack didn't write it" side, I suppose.
Or the "Jack tweaked it" viewpoint.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Sir Robert Anderson
Chief Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 652
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
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" chalk would be the "spraycan" of the day "
Lord knows I'm all in favor of new suggestions and new angles - we're in dire need - but one quick problem comes to mind here with CD's excellent idea:
If graffiti battles were commonplace, why was Detective Hale's proposal to simply erase the top line given no consideration ? Seems to me that sans the first line this could be passed off as garden variety gang graffiti...
Sir Robert
'Tempus Omnia Revelat'
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:24 pm: |
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Dear Bob:
My post above was really just an attempt to kick start the thread back in gear and get C.D. back on the track... Personally,not that it matters,I think/feel/suspect that the Ripper wrote the message as a link to the apron,but his intended messages' meaning ,perhaps like The Son Of Sam's, was beyond police perception. This "Juwes" definition,as written in print by Stephenson was wrong...as well as Dave Radka's "Juwes" or the "Juwes" of Masonic lore.. I don't think that the meaning of the message can or could or ever will be interpreted. I think the best we can do is sadly, shoot the proverbial merde over who applied it. I hope I am wrong. |
Puzzled
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 3:53 am: |
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Yes, but what dictionary is 'graffitus' from? |
Maria Giordano
Chief Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 526
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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I think you're right, Howie, that we can only speculate about who wrote the message.
I like the "gangs" idea but have to ask--if this message was an answer to others where ARE those others? We don't have any information that the entryway was covered with graffiti. Wouldn't you,if you were a gangsta, write your refutation near the thing you were answering?
I get the impression that the GSG was the only thing on that wall.That it leaped out at the observer.
Yet, we've seen contemporary pictures of other walls with lots of writing on them.
Just another thread left dangling in this frustrating search.
Mags
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Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 286
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 1:42 pm: |
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Maria,
Why would a gang member or graffiti artist want to write in such small letters? That's the thing I can't grasp. That's also the reason I don't think the ripper did it. It is much quicker to write some 3-5 inch letters than to try and scrunch a message down and make it neat, unless you wrote that way a lot.
That being said, it would seem possible that someone wanting to get a message out might change or add to some preexisting graffiti.
Now, you say you've seen pictures of contemporary graffiti. Is it small and neat? Is this the exception?
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Sir Robert Anderson
Chief Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 654
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 1:54 pm: |
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"Why would a gang member or graffiti artist want to write in such small letters? That's the thing I can't grasp. That's also the reason I don't think the ripper did it."
I don't think I'm going far out on a limb to say Jack was crazy; why expect a rational approach to graffiti ? The message itself may have had meaning only to him...why expect bold handwriting ?
Sir Robert
'Tempus Omnia Revelat'
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1192
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 1:59 pm: |
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Mike:
Not speaking for Mags...but:
"Why would a gang member or graffiti artist want to write in such small letters? That's the thing I can't grasp.."
Thats right. Graffiti is seldom small and obscure,both in meaning and in location/size. Unless done in men's rooms or other "reading" rooms...
"It is much quicker to write some 3-5 inch letters than to try and scrunch a message down and make it neat, unless you wrote that way a lot.
True again...however, in writing a message that you wish to convey in a way you are accustomed to [ not garishly, but with style...not expediently, but patiently...not illegible,but easy to understand...these may have been characteristics of the person who wrote the message,regardless of whom it was ]....you would run the risk of breaking the chalk [ hitting the mortar between the bricks...] being illegible for the intended audience [ remember Mike...the surface of the individual brick here ]...and if the apron was directly below the message,these qualities of this message as defined by Halse did their deed.
It did attract his attention and stood out,not by being haphazardly and garishly scrawled all over the wall , [ again, the space above the starting point of the message was said to have been of a different surface and possibly not suitable to apply this 12 word mindbender..] but by being unique vis a vis other neighborhood graffiti... |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1193
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:12 pm: |
|
Sir Bob:
One thing about the GSG that used to make me think that RDS had his hand in it for certain is this almost "anal-retentive" quality of the message when contrasted with the apron and the previous carnage..
If the Ripper was behind the message,consider that here he had just murdered,gutted,and totally trashed Eddowes..possibly killing Stride as well...and then,took time to make sure that the message was neat enough for the police to link to the apron,as well as read with little difficulty. Even after two horrific murders...his conditioned reflex, when inspired to write, went back into gear...
Thats one anal sonofagun to me. It may be a key to his identity. Then again,maybe I'm way off.
I get that feeling about RDS from reading about him....but thats not germane to this thread. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2646
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:29 pm: |
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Thats my view Robert,that it clearly meant something to Jack-if it was him that did it and I suspect it was.
Somehow the issue of "blame" seems to be being "highlighted"
- he is aware that unseen "others" have been trying to "blame Jews" for the murders -for being "Jack the ripper" etc[which was actually the case with indignant headlines about it in the Jewish press] whereas he "Jack" knows this just
isnt true therefore the Jews cant be blamed for nothing!
And its the case that a mentally ill Jack
may actually have been relatively calm and collected in the aftermath of his work whereas someone more in touch with reality might have been shocked at themselves for having committed such heinous crimes!
Natalie |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1194
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:36 pm: |
|
Nats:
"And its the case that a mentally ill Jack
may actually have been relatively calm.."
Here again is another very good possibility.
Nats, to you, is what I mentioned about an "anal retentive" in the aftermath, in at least one way very similar as your credible "type" of scribbler? |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2647
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:58 pm: |
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Hiya Howie!
I guess you might be right about that!However I am not quite sure what you mean about "anal retentive"
I do wonder whether he was severely dealt with when
he was being "potty trained"!
Maybe he was angry still about
all that pressure and "retention" and needed to simply "let fly" and have everything that was in out- in the open !
Nats |
Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 288
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 4:46 pm: |
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Robert,
A very good point. Someone may have just written it for themselves. I would use a notebook to write myself a note, but I am not a lunatic... or am I.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1195
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 5:56 pm: |
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Dear Nats:
I assumed that the term "anal retentive" would have been understood...my fault,dear ! Maybe its only a term that Yanks use,I dunno.....
It means that someone is excessively fussy [ in this instance ] and despite just ripping a human being open, the anal one decides to be Little Mr. Perfect-Handwriter afterwards. It ain't got anything to do with the backside,Nats. It has to do with the mind.
Sorry about that.... |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2648
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
|
Thanks Howie anyway-I had a damn good laugh when I read that!You live and learn don"t you!
Nats |
c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 94
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 10:40 am: |
|
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it is very annoying and frustrating when I think I have made a really good point or asked an interesting question and my post is ignored. So what do I do? I try to sneak it into another thread at another time. (Oh don't give me that look, you know you do it too). If the GSG was intended for the general population, I can imagine Jack, the day after the double event, getting his coffee and opening the newspaper expecting to see his message scrawled across the front page for all the world to see. How incredibly frustrating it must have been for him that it wasn't there. What would he do? I think what anybody else would do. Write it again bigger, bolder and in blood if need be. Anything to say "don't you dare ignore me again." Yet, we don't see that. Very strange.
c.d. |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 1:49 pm: |
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C.D.
I'm paying attention,pal. I think your suggestion about someone or some others with an animus towards Jews and putting it in chalk isn't a bad idea.
Its possible that the Ripper knew that the police read the message and that in knowing this was satisfied enough to not go out and replacate the message for the general population... Of course,the possibility of the author wanting widespread acknowledgement is viable too. I tend to [ for no particular reason ] opt for the former possibility...
How |
Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 291
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 1:51 pm: |
|
CD,
I'm ignoring you right now.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 95
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 2:01 pm: |
|
Mike,
I guess I set myself up for that one, didn't I?
c.d. |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 72
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 2:20 pm: |
|
1. “…it could even have been someone taking preexisting graffiti and doctoring it up, either as an insult, or to change the meaning.”
>>Where do you see this in the evidence? What is the purpose of such speculation? To what does it lead, where are you going?”
2. “The "Jewes" or "Juwes" could have even been a gang name. Maybe it was the "Juves" a play on "Juvenile". Inner city Polish Jews representing. Why not?”
>>How is asking ‘why not?’ in this case a reasonable strategy? Where does it take you, and why do you want to go there? In what sense are you pursuing knowledge by asking this question at this moment?
3. “It wouldn't even necessarily have to be gang members, just anyone with strong pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish sentiments who wanted to make their views known.”
>>Given that Stride and Eddowes were murdered immediately after being witnessed by Jews at two different Jewish premises, and given that tensions among different groups of Jews, and between Jews and Gentiles, were highly wound up at the time, the reference to Jews in the graffitus begs to be interpreted hermeneutically. Yet everyone here instead interprets it obliquely, as if it had nothing to do with local and contemporary circumstances, conditions that have been written about in several books, (Fishman, Fido, Sugden, etc.) You folks need to become responsible for your own interpretations. You’ve got to be aware of when you are making or changing an interpretation, and what your reason is for doing so. But my imprecations on this point since 1996 have fallen on deaf, unwashed ears. All you people do is c*ck your eyes up at any angle that seems suitable at the moment and fire away. This procedure makes crank Ripperology each and every time. No one needs to put up with crank Ripperology any longer, but you actually seek it out, as if to impale yourselves proudly on your own little sword. Haven’t you got any brains? Don’t you have a smidgen’s worth of instinct to take adequate care of yourselves and your intellect? Why let yourselves run off hypothesizing baloney, when you can think sensibly and do yourselves credit instead? It seems to me nobody here realizes he’s got his fate in his own hands in what he thinks.
4. “I think/feel/suspect that the Ripper wrote the message as a link to the apron,but his intended messages' meaning ,perhaps like The Son Of Sam's, was beyond police perception.”
>>Berkowitz was writing about his personal conditions, which the police wouldn’t know about. The Whitechapel murderer was writing about local social and ethnic conditions, including those of the double event itself, that we today do know about. It’s right in the graffitus, it having been found as it was, and where it was. The Jews of that time had been blamed in eastern Europe from where they had been expelled, and they were being blamed for various disturbances and negative conditions, including the murders, in Whitechapel. Don’t you folks know how to set the backdrop for your interpretations? The backdrop is there for you if you wish to find it. If you don’t use it, you are missing out on your chances to make good interpretations. But I speak in vain. You people merely want to load yourselves up and fire off, any direction will do, and any target or none is as good as any other.
5. “This "Juwes" definition,as written in print by Stephenson was wrong...as well as Dave Radka's "Juwes" or the "Juwes" of Masonic lore..”
>>And your evidence for these conclusions is exactly—what?
6. “…I don't think that the meaning of the message can or could or ever will be interpreted. I think the best we can do is sadly, shoot the proverbial merde over who applied it.”
>>This is a particularly stupid attempt to try to make sense of something by arbitrarily deleting consideration of part of its complexity. I take it that an advisement and recommendation is being made to us that if we forget about the graffitus having any meaning, we ‘free ourselves up,’ as it were, to think about who might have been scooting around Goulston Street that night chalking up messages. But that’s not how the graffitus comes to us, folks. Through historical accounts we get the raw complexity of it, the time, the place, the handwriting, the text, the apron, the double event, the murders as a whole, the surrounding conditions, the whole ball of wax. Doesn’t anyone here have any sort of ethical sense to pursue the truth?
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Baron von Zipper
Inspector
Username: Baron
Post Number: 292
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
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David,
I seek the truth, but my truths are not yours. You pose improbable theories and expect us to buy into them, yet you condemn our free thought. Go away. I pity you, but not enough to read your insults. You are a sick man, if man you be.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 96
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 2:54 pm: |
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David,
Let me recommend a book to you, Sir. It's titled "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. It's available at amazon.com and I think they might even have free shipping now because of the holidays.
c.d. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2651
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 3:20 pm: |
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But then again,maybe "people pleasing" isn"t David"s bag c.d.? |
c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 97
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 3:48 pm: |
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Hi Natalie,
Umm...Remember when you took the term "anal retentive" literally? Well...the book recommendation was just a tad tongue in cheek. No problem, though. It's pretty much an American joke.
c.d. |
S Moore
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 6:50 am: |
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This only applies if chalk was used:
On the subject of the chalk, was the chalk at this time in the form of sticks, like todays chalk or in the form of a rock?
The reason I ask is that anytime I have written with chalk (sticks) on a board the chalk tends to break, dropping a piece on the ground.
I am perhaps heavy handed and prone to this but I am also inexperienced in writing with chalk and this might account for me using too much force.
There is also a good chance that pieces (shards) would also break off chalk that's in the form of a rock.
Writing on a rough wall in the dark and with some speed would increase the chances of the chalk breaking.
So consider this if you are the ripper and you are writing on the wall with chalk, you are in a hurry, a piece of chalk breaks off, do you stoop down to grope in the dark to find it?
I wouldn't think so.
So I would say that if the ripper wrote this message there would be a good chance that a piece or pieces of chalk broke off whilst writing on the wall. If I was a policeman then I would certainly be looking for them.
I don't think there was any report of chalk being found, although it could have been missed or crushed under some PC's boot.
This leads me to think that on balance the message was wrote earlier by someone experienced writing with chalk (less likely to break chalk), with time (less likely to break chalk again) or who cared about lifting the broken chalk (if there was any) to use later at his business perhaps. |
Rosey O'Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |
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Dear Howie,
In this instance, putting the "anal" back into "analysis" is akin to "the light dawns over the whole" :-)
I suspect that the GSG event is integral to our understanding of the complete cycle of events which lie hidden behind the events prior and post the Doubledeathday. Unfortunately, the GSG has been 'presented' to us in a way that will not stand up to rigourous intellectual analyses...hitting our heads up against a brick wall!
I now think that the monkey who lives forever still could not be a Shakespeare. Tick. Tick.
As ever, Rosey :-) |
