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AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 378
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:21 pm: | 
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Enjoyed that Robert, to immensity and back.
I do believe that was the first poem that did that, rhymed every other line - term forgotten now in the flood of SSB - and I congratulate you for that, as I find that almost impossible to construct.
You'll be interested to know that another poem I was constructing last night also had the line 'even the devil's bubbling brew' therein.
Great minds possibly drink the same devil's brew?
I enjoyed the slant of your poesie.
Have finished next section of Colony but I fear by posting it I will disappear from these screens forever.
Ah well.
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 807
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:35 pm: |
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Thanks AP. Strange coincidence about the brew! But I doubt if there was a teabag floating in yours.
Am looking forward to Colony. Remember the disclaimer.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 379
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 3:31 pm: |
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One Caste Down in Colony
(I would like to point out in the strongest terms that what is written here in no way represents my personal sentiment or view. I have no personal feelings or bias as regards any of the issues discussed.)
I do in fact have powerful reasoning for feeling that homosexuality may play a key role in the Jack mystery - and thereby in the Colony role model I am attempting to portray - and that reasoning is partly based on the fact that many sexual offenders - including murderers - do suffer from considerable confusion regarding their own sexual identity, and their crimes may well form part of some weird and magical exploration into their own sexual identity using the narrow and rare channels that are open to a confused entity in such a precarious situation.
In fact it is now widely accepted that a killer of the nature of Jack could as easily be a homosexual as a heterosexual… or even a totally asexual entity.
Which does lead me neatly back to the role model of the Colony, for such a Colony allows only three variant forms of entity within its structure and as such provides a useful biological parallel - when not a parody - of sexual development within a human community where type castes are restricted to the power of three.
In human terms:
Male - Female - Homosexual.
In Colony terms:
Soldier - Reproductive - Worker.
It could be argued that the human model is more evolutionary sophisticated than the Colony model, being the result of ‘intelligent guidance’ but I for one see the Colony model as far more sophisticated as it has no requirement for ‘intelligent guidance’, being strictly driven by itself into the future with no room for development, change or what we vainly call ‘progress’.
If the roles of the three different castes within the Colony model represent evolutionary development at its peak - which it must do as the Colony structure has not changed in millions of years of evolution - this may well show us that human society is operating with a self-created caste that is in fact imitative of the other two castes, and this just might be the biological trigger that is acting on the gun of random murder within human society.
Evolution is very likely responding to the ‘dead end’ nature of a self-created caste that has no power of reproductive benefit to the Colony, and here it is essential to note that in the true Colony model any caste is capable of becoming a reproductive value to the Colony.
I would also say that the activities of serial killers - 99% male - and their choice of victims - 99% female - is a clear and irrefutable indication of the evolutionary trend of our Colony.
To complicate and confound the issue even further we must accept that the violent behaviour of one caste in the Colony when directed against another specific caste - where no sexual overtures are present - must be a clear indication of the true sexual orientation of that violent caste.
To sum up.
We are at sea and without a paddle.
I leave the reader to judge which caste is superfluous to evolutionary development, but I think I know where Jack fits in.
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 810
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 4:21 pm: |
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Hi AP
This would tie in with your view of Jack as frustrated artist. I suspect (though I don't know) that the group you mention are, in percentage terms, more culturally creative than other people - perhaps as compensation for the fact that biological creativity is closed to them.
One point, though : a while ago I said that according to the asexual evolution hypothesis, we should be seeing sexual attacks by women on men. You replied that Jack's attacks weren't sexual. But what I meant by "sexual attacks" was simply attacks on the sexual parts of a person. In this respect Jack's attacks, and those of modern attackers, are sexual, even if there is an asexual undertone.
It seems to me that we are not seeing sexual attacks by women on men. The few cases that have occurred seem to have been concerned with punishment for infidelity etc rather than anything else, as far as I can remember.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 380
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 4:43 pm: |
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Robert
you put that beautifully, 'more culturally creative than other people - perhaps as compensation for the fact that biological creativity is closed to them.'
I take me hat off to you.
As ever, you sum up what I am trying to say.
As regards sexual attacks by women on men.
This is something that forms my thinking on the next long haul section of colony so I will hold myself back, apart from saying you score another commendable hit.
I really must try drinking something with a tea bag in it. |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 381
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 2:16 pm: |
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One Caste up in Colony (with thanks to Robert)
(Again I must stress that in no manner or form does the following represent my personal sentiment or view. I have no sentiment or view concerning the issues discussed.)
In the true Colony model both male and female forms comprise the three castes - soldier/worker/reproductive - however the reproductive abilities remain undeveloped in the two castes, only the true ‘reproductives’ functioning as ‘breeders.
Therefore it would appear that the other two castes remain un-reproductive because they are surplus to the reproductive value of the Colony.
This being the case it seems obvious to me that human society is attempting to operate with a vast over-loading of reproductives, and this to the detriment of the other castes within the Colony, thereby causing what might be an evolutionary ‘dead end’ scenario where the overwhelming number of reproductives and their uncontrolled behaviour has been interfering with the hair-trigger mechanism which normally balances the biological order of the Colony.
In other words the soldier and worker castes are so busy reproducing that they have no time to be soldiers or workers, and the essential oil to the wheel of evolution begins to rub and stick.
Now, what if the two reproductive castes in human society are subtly aware of this precarious situation - and by subtly I mean biologically aware - and are unwittingly and unknowingly actively doing something about the situation?
For instance - by dint of the biological circumstances - creating a self imposed asexual caste upon itself that more faithfully follows the true Colony model in that two castes of the Colony abandon their reproductive role to adopt the roles of worker and soldier, and at the same time cut down the burgeoning reproductives down to a more manageable level consistent with the real demands of the Colony.
That is but one scenario.
Another more vivid scenario could have the Colony secretly arming its soldiers by using subtle signalling techniques and then sending them out in an undeclared and bloody war against the over-populated reproductive caste.
Neither notion is comfortable but both are biologically plausible.
Perhaps now we can see why 99% of killer attacks are carried out by the male soldier caste and their victims are almost exclusively reproductives.
The so-called ‘battle of the sexes’ might just be a lot more of a war than we think.
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 818
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 3:27 pm: |
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And, AP, although the victims were nearly all women who were past or were about to pass child-bearing age, yet the murders occurred in the most notoriously over-populated quarter of London.
Of course it's true that steps had just been taken to recruit more people from the working-class to help run the colony - the educational reforms, opening up of the civil service etc - but this I think is actually a point in favour of your argument. More people were needed to join the middle-class, where they would become less reproductive, because the rise in population and complexity of Victorian society necessitated that lower-class talent should be tapped. These new recruits would still be expected to frown down on the disorderly, promiscuous lifestyles of the class they'd escaped from.
The reproductive instinct seems to have suffered a double whammy in the last century and a half or so, for after the Victorian and middle-class distaste for sex that dominated society up to the fifties or so, we now have the middle-class pornographic industry, which is more about masturbation than procreation.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 382
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 4:47 pm: |
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As ever, Robert, your thoughts are provoking, and always give me much to think on.
To step back to your earlier post where you mentioned that you consider an attack upon a person's sexual parts as 'sexual' in nature.
I do know what you are saying but I would still prefer to call such an attack as 'biological' rather than sexual.
As ever you almost predict where I am going with colony, as the next section does deal with the very topics in your lively post, so I will save my comments for now.
I suppose if I had to mark out a third evolutionary trend that was moving us sexually to the true colony model then it would be your example of masturbation rather than procreation, fuelled by an ever-ready middle-class porn industry.
Smoothing and soothing signals from the colony masters me thinks. So instead of firing guns at them we instead shoot rubber bands at the sun.
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Rodney Gillis
Police Constable
Username: Srod
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 7:58 pm: |
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While I have read several books on the Ripper and have followed the boards here, I have always considered myself a novice. I do have definite thoughts about the case and I believe that Jack was responsible for the five murders credited to him. I have always thought that Kelly was the last victim and that there was a reason that she was the last. I think the reason for her murder (whatever it may be) is the key. Her circumstances were so unlike the other victims. She was murdered inside and mutilated to a much greater extent. Kelly was much younger than the rest and from what I have read, she was considered attractive (if only we had a picture of her while alive).
I am not yet ready to buy Barnett as the killer, I just don't see a clear motive for all of the carnage. I have often wondered if the murderer could have been someone who admired Kelly from a distance and was eventually scorned by her for whatever reason, hence my poem that I submit for your enjoyment.
The Pedestal
A night like this so long ago
When I finished my deadly sin
The autumn air was brisk and clear
My knife so sharp and thin
I adored her more than life itself
So deep but so very far away
She laughed at my clothes, my station in life
I wished her to want me someday
It hurt me to watch her travel at night
She'd drink and embrace the town
I wept when she encouraged the advances of men
Her life quickly spiraling down
I decided to work and to scheme and to plan
The darkness, what horrors would hold
Those that she would become would pay with their all
In the open, so damp and so cold
Their lives had no purpose, no reason to live
For mere pence THEY accepted my life
Their eyes so cloudy, so devoid of all hope
Abandoned as mother or wife
She invited me in her palace so small
"Much warmer and safer inside."
She had scorned me before but the rent now past due
That night I would make her my bride
Did I tell you I loved her? I asked for her hand
I told her that we must not part
She said that I'm mad, that I'd not measure up
First her life and then with it her heart
Many autumns have passed, streets now are quite safe
So tonight I will go for a walk
Past all the old haunts where I followed my loves
With a knife, piece of apron, and chalk
Rod Gillis |
Jeff Hamm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 72
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:20 am: |
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it sticks it reeks the city streets
awash they are with rain
they come and seek me in the night
i come and bring them pain
i come it comes they come to me
i'm lost inside a fog
that drags me down into the grave
and places me with god
they spin i laugh my mind it flows
like rivers over fields
i feel alive as ne'er before
i harvest all they yield
with winter come and harvest o're
i listen now to songs
that none of you can ever hear
because i've come i've gone
i am the jack of all the trades
the eldest trades my crop
i am the lion with the lamb
after the apple's dropped
oh what i see you'll never know
and what i've heard i hear
i hear and see it all again
again again i'm near
- Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 819
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 7:04 am: |
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Hi Rod
Very nice poem, with a very fine last verse. It was economically and convincingly told, and I found the overall effect most satisfying.
Rod, you might like to check out the George Hutchinson theory, which proposes just such a "Ripper as obsessed stalker" scenario.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 820
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 7:21 am: |
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Hi Jeff
Another fine poem, again with a very good ending - I particularly liked the last six lines.
You needn't have worried, AP - it's rhymers not Rippers that you're encouraging!
Robert |
Billy Markland
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 3:25 am: |
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A.P.
I have enjoyed the thread but the following statement from you confuses me.
You wrote:
"(I would like to point out in the strongest terms that what is written here in no way represents my personal sentiment or view. I have no personal feelings or bias as regards any of the issues discussed.)"
Honestly, without taking a stand either way, if you don't believe in your postings, with that cavaeat what relevance can we place upon your theories??
Sincerely Dazed and Confused (more than normal),
Billy |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 383
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 1:49 pm: |
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Yes Rod
I enjoyed that as well. I think the poetic licence granted to us here allows for a lot more range and depth to not only our feelings but also perhaps to our basic instincts regarding the crimes of JtR.
And as I have always said, it was basic instinct that drove the crime and I'm sure it will be basic instinct rather than sleuthing that solves the crime. |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 384
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 1:55 pm: |
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Jeff
good stuff. I enjoy the radical way you write and the radical painting you conjure up with a brevity of words and grammar. This is a style I enjoy and would like to see more of. Writing from the centre of events, arrows of words that fly... and probably capture a little bit of the soul of old Jack.
Like to see more of your stuff. |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 385
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 2:26 pm: |
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Sorry Billy
Perhaps I worded the disclaimer incorrectly.
The problem being that I speak of things evolutionary and biological as applicable to a Colony model, and that model strictly allows for no individuality or interpretation... things are quite simply as they are.
I am merely recording and reporting that fact.
To fairly record and report is my aim.
Nothing I write forms my opinion, hence there is no theory and hence I have no view.
Believe it or not I am - just like you - now't but impartial observer to revolutionary events within evolutionary process.
Our opinions and view are not a jot compared to such a cosmic giant.
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Rodney Gillis
Police Constable
Username: Srod
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 8:00 pm: |
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Robert
Thank you so much for your kind words and for your advice on Hutchinson. I was aware of him but upon your suggestion, I researched the discussions and dissertations. It's hard to believe that Abberline didn't question Hutchinson in more detail or wonder why he gave his testimony after the hearing, not to mention why Hutchinson takes it upon himself to watch Kelly's apartment for so long a period. All of this is circumstantial and may mean nothing but one must wonder . . .
AP
I'm glad you enjoyed the poem. I am happy with it. I think you are correct about basic instinct. All the information we now have about the case due to such hard work is amazing, yet when we try to conceptualize why people think and do what they do, we travel down an extremely slippery sloap.
Rod |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 386
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 4:59 pm: |
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Crack in Fabric
Awash with rain, awash with blood
Awash in fetid bloody mud
Lamb and lion, iron like Zion.
Pity patter feet do scatter
And drops do spatter.
In pools of imagination spiral spin
And wash it down immortal sin
Slide like hot butter
End in skin slide stutter.
Apple drop and drip drop splash
Apple drop and rip stab slash.
Delve and dip, drip and rip,
Cut and snip, bit by bit
Snip for snip.
Crack in fabric fatal fault
Where fought is but nought
And stand and shiver
For sum be figure…
To scratch signature
Across the apex
Dumb struck matrix
Dumb struck cow
Dumb struck sow
Beast for slaughter
As we taught her.
Some tangled hair entwined
Some poor cow holy swine
Some sliver in the shade
Some maiden fare hand made
Some sheath some knife some blade
Some hole some ill kept grave
Some prayer in some heaven made.
Just spatter on stone
Idle spit idle alone.
Wipe me clean
This idle dream.
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 835
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 5:36 pm: |
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Liked it very much, AP. Not so much arrows, as bullets. I particularly liked the way you built up a head of steam, and then just dropped the reins and ended quietly.
I must try doing one of these.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 837
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 8:06 pm: |
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Well, it hasn't come out as I'd intended, but here goes :
FRESH START
Tear the veil,
Cup Life in hand.
Filthy Grail
Of one-night stand.
Magic-haunted,
Alley-flaunted,
Mother earth and shifting sand.
Cleave the clouds,
Salute the space.
Part the hair
And carve the face.
Charm-devising,
Self-excising,
Scribbling pain with every trace.
Another leaf
That's turned anew.
Hell beneath
And Hell on view.
Calm, secure,
Strong and pure,
Sneak away till next one's due.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 387
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 2:50 am: |
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A master stroke of the brush, Robert.
I do love poesies that are hip-hop in nature, sort of dream-time rap, or rock pop made in heaven's gate.
A minimum of words for a maximum of expression, and the reader is left to delve and twist within the words.
More of this, please! |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 842
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 11:26 am: |
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OK, AP, as an experiment - I only hope I haven't gone crackers!
I was thinking about how Tom (if it was Tom) said "syndicate" instead of "synagogue"....
LOST
Drown dress drench drab
Frown dross stench stab
Wrench grab
Muted muddied matted matter
Speared and spoiled and spewing spatter
Shambling shatter
Murdered, murderered, merded, muddled,
Reeking reckoning, pavement-puddled,
Huddled, fuddled,
Cobble-cuddled
Kid spoon, dice rolled,
Man knife, whore holed.
Cry cot, suck breast,
Wand wave, whore rest.
Key lock twist turn open mess,
Laugh life cloudy clueless guess.
Hack the futurous, neuterous leave her,
Kindly cart come faceless heave her.
Mighty Square
I know not where,
Gall Stone Street
Throw apron feet.
Why the moon such startled stare?
Robert |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 388
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 1:54 pm: |
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See Robert, you rouse the ghost of Blake with your words.
Maybe you and me have gone crackers, but I got a buzz out of your hip-hop poem like nothing else I have seen on these boards yet.
This sort of jumbled up thought and grammar - I think - peers right into the heart of our Jack, and right into the heart of murder most foul.
With your last line I can honestly see Jack - after ripping apart one of the whores - suddenly glimpsing the moon and saying such a paradoxical thing.
Mighty Square and Gall Stone Street
were a treat.
You catching souls here. |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 845
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 2:03 pm: |
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Thanks, AP. I'll try and do more of those, then -
though I confess I'm ignorant of hip-hop (other than it's something that surgeons do).
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 850
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 7:31 am: |
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Hi AP
(From "Why Barnett?" thread)
BOOKSHELF
I am a bookshelf, stuffed end to end
With tomes about Jack, our troublesome friend.
And just because I'm filled to the wide,
Everything else has been elbowed aside.
Darwin struggled, but went to the wall.
Gibbon declined, and then did fall.
Gogol in the corner hurled
Admits that it's a depressing world.
Chatterton now lies on the bed,
Tragic, neglected and unread.
Old Testament prophets thunder unheard,
And lexicons leave without a word.
Voltaire is cultivating the garden,
And Calvin's dismissed without hope of pardon.
Newton has gravitated to floor,
While a Beethoven biog hammers on door.
Books on strange disappearances
Vanish in regular clearances,
And history clung on to the last
But had to accept its time was past.
Not one more Jack book can I take,
They're wedged in tight, for heaven's sake.
"Jack the Myth" has done for Blake.
But one Ripper book that I haven't got
Is Cornwell's - and that's in chamber pot.
Robert |
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