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Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 563
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 11:20 am: |       |
Calling Citizens of the UK.....For anyone that is interested.
This Thursday 6th Jan. Channel 4. 9pm.
The story of the investigation into Anthony Hardy....The Camden Ripper.
A man who, according to the Sun Newspaper, was inspired by a certain Mr Jack the Ripper.
Monty
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Lisa Jane
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 7:35 am: | |
Hi Monty,
Yes I watched it and interesting to draw parallels against 1888. How this man so flagrantly walked about under CCTV cameras dumping bagfulls of body parts, similar audacity indeed.
De-personalising the prostitutes (picked up casually, not lovers) he killed by placing a devil's mask over their heads as he posed the dead bodies for pornographic poses: Perhaps this contradicts the belief that the Ripper must have known MJK because he obliterated her face. |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 602
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:19 pm: | |
Guys,
Come on you Barnettists....anyone.
Lets rock the boat.
Lisa has just made one of THE most excellent points I have read on these boards for ages.
Does the obliteration of a victims face mean that the killer knew her ?? Or is it just a de-personalising procedure ??
This is a good point guys, it would question the Barnett theory even more.
Monty
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 715
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 4:54 pm: | |
I do feel that we look at a time factor here, rather than a desire to inflict some kind of personal mutilation on a victim because of a degree or lack of intimacy. Surely the time that the killer spends with the victim becomes a form of weird intimacy and this is what may well dictate the damage to the most obvious personal aspect of the victim: the face.
A casual killer out on the street would be hallmarked by the rushed aspect of his work, leaving very little time for intimate moments of contact between killer and victim, however a killer at home - or in another person’s home - would have the time to initiate what I would term as intimate contact, for example by masking or defacing the personality and individuality of the victim. Such behaviour would be pointless on the street, for the alien surroundings dictate that the victim is a stranger, however when the victim is either invited ‘home’ or the killer is invited ‘home’ a whole new application of territorial imperatives are opened up, and perhaps the most simple of these would be a closer relationship between the two concerned, even when one was dead.
I would need to think long and hard before I took facial disfigurement or concealment as an indicator of intimate relationship between killer and victim when the crime was committed in the home of the killer or victim.
Out on the street would be a different matter.
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Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 624
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 8:23 am: | |
Hi AP,
I agree totally.
After being tempted into sparing precious getaway moments to experiment with Eddowes's face, Jack may have spent many hours up until 9 November thinking about the special kind of intimacy he wanted to experience if he got the chance.
Love,
Caz
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Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 428
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 12:25 pm: | |
If the mutilating of the face isn't personal then why didn't he do this to all of his victims?
Sarah |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 725
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 1:36 pm: | |
Thanks Caz
I think we have been here before, and I think it was Robert (aka William Blake) who suggested that Jack may have really settled down that night with Kelly and viewed it as a kind of bizarre honeymoon.
Many objected at the time, but I liked his analogy, and thought it rang true.
I think my own analogy was of a kid let loose in a sweet shop with no adults about.
Whatever, I still feel that facial disfigurement or concealment is not an indication of intimacy or otherwise, merely an indication of a killer with time on his hands.
Which is rare on the street but commoner at home.
There must be a precise formula for this, I must work it out. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 633
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:24 am: | |
Hi Sarah,
If Jack was putting the final touches on his work when messing with Kate’s face, there are several possible reasons why he didn’t do the same for previous victims – disturbed by approaching footsteps or other noises, fear of being disturbed if he stayed any longer, not bold enough yet, or as psyched up and reckless as he may have been with Kate, hadn’t considered it a serious option before that night, if he thought about it at all, and so on.
You may be able to think of some more possibilities, but I don’t think the best option is that he didn’t know the early victims but then found two in a row that he did know, either by accident or design, and had to disfigure them facially into the bargain.
I see a more natural progression to AP’s sweet shop – or my chocolate factory.
AP, I’ll swap you a Whispa and a Time Out for your gobstopper and aniseed balls. 
Love,
Caz
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 732
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 1:39 pm: | |
Caz
I'm not fond of 'Time Out' at all, they gave me the best review I ever had in my sad little life, called me a 'drunken bar-room brawler' - or something like that - and claimed that my publishers 'should have known better' and that my work 'demanded an explanation'.
I gave them an explanation all right.
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Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 643
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:57 pm: | |
Hi AP,
I meant the chocolate snack.
Fortunately you can eat those and they can’t talk about you afterwards.
“Greedy cow! You should have known better.”
Love,
Caz
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 738
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:48 pm: | |
Heavens Caz!
How out of date I am.
I honestly thought 'Time Out' was a second rate publication from London based entirely on advertising revenue, whose reviewers and writers were part-time postal workers with little better to do of an evening than slag off impoverished authors such as me good self.
Obviously I was mistaken.
I will seek out this snack of which you speak and try it out on my faithful hounds. |
Timsta
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:44 pm: | |
AP:
"I think we have been here before, and I think it was Robert (aka William Blake) who suggested that Jack may have really settled down that night with Kelly and viewed it as a kind of bizarre honeymoon."
My interpretation exactly. I think the events at Miller's Court may have finally 'given him the release he craved'.
On the other hand, I'm wary of accepting this as a cause for the cessation of the murders. I have read that it is not uncommon for SKs to curtail their activities (sometimes very temporarily, sometimes for years) when the situation becomes too hot for comfort. I believe this was true of Sutcliffe. Of course, now we're wandering into the arena of the organized/disorganized thread...
Regards
Timsta
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