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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 405
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:41 am: | 
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Hello All,
With the venue for the next UK Ripper Conference
set down for Brighton in October 2005, I thought it might whet a few appetites if I down-loaded some photos I took of two Police Convalescent Seaside Homes at Hove, the very next town to Brighton.
The two homes are: 51 Clarendon Villas (where a lease was provided for such a purpose from March 1890 till about October 1892); and 11 Portland Road, which, when it was opened in October 1892 already had 25 beds occupied by police members.
Portland Road home was purpose built and is an impressive red-brick pile.
Now, having promised to post these photos, please bear with me whilst I wrestle with the technical intricacies involved.
This is my first attempt to do so.
I'll get back to you... |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 409
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
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Umm, Errr,
There will be a short break in transmission. Stay tuned and normal transmission will resume in a moment....
(Having trouble getting my images to do what I want it to do..).
EErr, in the meantime a question:
Other posters (See General Discussion: Seaside Home Location) have indicated that other "Seaside Homes" are discoverable on the record.(Note Swanson did not say the POLICE Seaside Home ).
Martin Fido has stated that the "Metropolitan Police Convalescent Fund" was started in 1887, and "very quickly became the most popular police
charity of the time". He also states, "In 1888 or '89 (I forget which) the Police Gazette circulated a request from the fund committee (or some other central authority) that all Met Divisions should report the names of officers who had received grants to go to boarding houses for convalescence, prior to the use of a definite named home".
Stewart P Evans and Don Rumbelow apparently both say reference to 'the Seaside Home" was normal police jargon for their " Convalescent Police Seaside Home".
However,Stewart Evans also stated the removal of a possible suspect for identification to a "Seaside Home" was not normal police procedure.
The Question: has anyone found any further information on the records or activities of the Metropolitan Police Convalescent Fund? |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 6:54 am: |
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At John's request I'm having a go at uploading his photo of 51 Clarendon Villas, Hove.
Chris Phillips
____________________________________________
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1249
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 7:17 am: |
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And here's another, showing 11 Portland Road.
______________________________________________
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 411
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 8:45 am: |
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Thanks Chris,
Also thanks to a tolerant Stephen P Ryder who is in the middle of an important task and apologised for having less time to upload photos than he'd like.
Anyone like to discuss the question posed above? |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1250
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
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Here are four more of John's photos of 51 Clarendon Villas.
_________________________________________________
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 9:45 am: |
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And here are four more of 11 Portland Road.
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AWood
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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Hi John
Look forward to seeing the photos.
You're right to raise the profile of the Seaside Home in time for the Conference, and we will in fact be publishing an article by Andy Aliffe in the September issue of Ripperologist. The article contains new research and photographs of the Homes, with one of the Clarendon Villas Home in 1890. Subscribe now!
If you - or in fact anyone - has photos, or any material on the Homes which you'd like to contribute to the
magazine we'd welcome it with open arms
at contact@ripperologist.info
Kind regards
Adam
Production, Ripperologist magazine
www.ripperologist.info
Organiser, 2005 Brighton Conference
www.ripperconference.com
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2324
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 4:27 pm: |
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John
if you go back in the thread you'll see that Zoe - who works in the Brighton library and tourist information office - supplied much useful information on the Seaside Homes at Hove, and she felt that the records from that period might well be kept at the present police home, which is a long way away from the seaside.
I still have the original reports from Zoe, so if you can't find the thread, I'll repost it.
I would strongly suggest that you get in contact with Zoe. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1256
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 4:41 am: |
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To my mind, the big question is whether Swanson was referring to the Police Seaside Home, or another one.
I know it's been suggested that Clarendon Villas would have provided a relatively secluded place where the identification could have been conducted out of the public site. But I can't understand why there wouldn't have been somewhere closer than Hove where this could have been done.
It would certainly make sense if the witness were a policeman, resident in the Home, but obviously this is difficult to reconcile with what Anderson and Swanson say about the witness.
Does anyone have any fresh thoughts that could explain the choice of Hove?
Chris Phillips
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 412
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 6:56 am: |
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Thanks Chris,
Excellent work in planting those photos on Casebook.
Hope some of the readers are not too speechless
because of the breathtaking beauty of the images to post comments!
Firstly, when I was in Hove in June, after I took the photos I ambled down the road to the Hove City Library. There I located the wonderful Zoe
who is upstairs in the Reference Section.
I had a look at the directories for the 1890's and the Hove Encyclopaedia. From these I learnt
that, at least in 1892, 51 Clarendon Villas was described as the Police SEASIDE HOME...
I just wish we could narrow down the time-frame a bit more.
Lastly, I know Robert Charles Linford has already done so, but I encourage all attendees at the Brighton Conference to pop over to nearby OVINGDEAN, where the Macnaghtens -yes, THOSE Macnaghtens- had their family home. In December 1888, Sir Melville and his mother buried Eliot Macnaghten, Melville's father there.
Now I know Melville was not 'in situ' at Scotland Yard in December 1888, but given he was being lined up for the job of Assistant Chief Constable
he would have been a very handy confidential contact for the Metropolitan Police to confer with about how to organise the complicated logistics for an identification ceremony required to take place in Hove. He would have had the local discreet contacts, and been familiar with the area...
(That's of course, if he was back in the country
from India when the identification took place).
Trouble is, we are still hampered by not knowing the exact date of the line-up). |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 413
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 7:04 am: |
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And also, thanks A. P. for your suggestions. Both of which were mightilly constructive.
As you will see from the above, I have spoken to Zoe, and there is a hint in my opening post that I have gone back and read the informative posts of people like "A.M.P." from the Casebook CD. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4728
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 7:26 am: |
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Thanks John and Chris for these photos.
By the time the Ripper conference is over, poor Zoe will probably think that the number one suspect is a retired Polish Jewish Police Superintendent who did hairdressing in his spare time and ate bread from the gutters!
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2327
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 9:20 am: |
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Yes, she probably will, Robert, but then don't a lot of folk think that already?
It is my sincere belief that the conference should take place in the Police Seaside Home that is now a gay club!
No worries, John.
Glad to see you working away at this angle, which I have always felt will reward in the end.
Give my regards to Zoe. |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 414
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 8:47 pm: |
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No worries AP,
I have been pondering on this "Swanson Scribble-alia" and a few thoughts have arisen in me.
1.Swanson says the suspect to be identified was "sent with difficulty BY US..", this indicates, to me, one thing: Swanson was not assigned to accompany the suspect to the "Seaside Home";was his knowledge hearsay?
2.Stewart P Evans, I think, in his dissertation on this matter, speculates that the identification probably took place in 1889/1890. If that was so, then there is a possibility Melville Macnaghten was a seat-warmer at Scotland Yard at the time. Given MM's love of Ripperania, including lurid and gory photos, why was a Police Identification photograph (or an Asylum admission photo) not forwarded in safe custody to show to the presumeably invalid occupant of the Seaside Home?
3.Is there a remote possibility that the recall of the "Seaside Home" by Swanson, might have confused the Brighton/Hove Seaside Home with the
St LEONARDS (STREET) ASYLUM in London? St Leonards is the name of a seaside resort not far from Brighton/Hove?
And lastly, a general question: When publishers and authors negotiate the preparation of a forthcoming book, much correspondence results (emails today). Has anyone examined the Publishers
Archives for those who produced Sir Robert Anderson's and Sir Melville Macnaghten's memoirs?
Who knows, if not, perhaps another Littlechild Letter awaits some keen ferret! |
Paul Williams
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wehrwulf
Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 7:09 am: |
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I used to live in Clarendon Villas so thank you for the photos. I wasn't aware that the Macnaghtens were in Ovingdean however. |
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