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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Victims » Mary Jane Kelly » Is this the last known photograph of Millers court? « Previous Next »

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Archive through February 28, 2004Chris Scott25 2-28-04  12:08 pm
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna

Post Number: 1198
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quite fun with those rough sketches.
I wonder what's with the banner hanging out from the window... I find it hard to believe that the Queen of England resided there during the weekends...

All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Greg Hutton
Police Constable
Username: Greg

Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris,
Millers court was two story buildings, but 26 and 27 Dorset Street were at least 3 floors with possibly attic windows on top. The photograph attached shows the Millers court entrance from the Dorset Street side.Millers court entrance
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 215
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Greg, all

I did have my doubts at first, that the building Greg pointed out was Millers Court. The reason being, the building next to it with the white painted wall looked to me to be a bit to close to New Court. But after having a good look and getting eye strain in the process there does look to be a big enough distance between the two, but the clincher for me that it is Millers Court is that there is chimney poking out the top of building, which would be in just the right position.

Greg, you can't tell from the photo above (which was taken about the same time as the photo you found)but the buildings to our right were already demolished, which would also fit in nicely as well.

Glenn, I might be wrong but I think that is washing hanging of the pole.

Rob
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I think so too, Rob. I just thought it looked funny. :-)

I agree, I see no reason to doubt that one of the discussed buildings seen on the demolishing photo really is Miller's Court 13.
Considering the location of the Britannia and the "Export" house it fits in well.

All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr

Post Number: 185
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's a wonderful game this checking and interpreting old photos, isn't it?
You'll all be recruited to satellite photo interpretations in the next big war.
I agree with Glenn, it looks as if this photo from our unregistered poster - soon to be registered - Greg, is on the money.Thanks Greg.
If you look at the reproduced map of Whitechapel in Stephen Knight's exciting "The Final Solution"
(mine is the 1984 Treasure Press Revised Edition)
opposite page 149, you can just see the open space left by the demolishers of 1928.
Perhaps an Ordinance or Local Council map for that time will clinch it beyond doubt?
The space through to Brushfield Street would be clearly shown. I think I can see the outer wall of a building in Brushfield street in the lower left of Greg's photo.
From other JTR books it seems these open sites stayed vacant for years. Though, this one is for the new Market's Saleroom.
Good team work by all you Dorset Street Dab-hands.
And to Stephen P. Ryder, of course.
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Christian Jaud
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd

Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 5:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello all,

reading this photo interpretations here (and being amazed what still can be discovered these days, wow, respect!) I remembered a pic that I saw in Jack London's Abyss, the caption reading "View in Spitalfields".

The big building to the right of the street looks like Spitalfields Market to me, so the street should be Brushfield str.
But where the Britannia should be, there's this "General Gordon ... Hotel", so I don't really understand that picture and I'm unsure about which area/street it really shows. Could anbody help me with that please?
Thank you very much in advance

Christian
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 216
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 5:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Christian

You are right it is Brushfield Street, The Britannia is on the North corner of Dorset Street, about 6 buildings to the left of the General Gordon Hotel.
This is the photo of the Britannia (on the left) on the casebook.


Rob

P.S In Jack London's book you mention there is a photo of Frying Pan Alley, does it look a bit familiar to you?
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna

Post Number: 1203
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

Regarding the demolishing site on the 1928 photo, I wonder if we will see more of that in the future. When I just recently strolled through these parts of East End, I noticed that many of the old, remaining buildings on some of the streets were rather run down and a great deal of them even completely abandoned. I would be a liar if I said that I wasn't a bit worried about future possible plans for the area... especially as the ugly modern development buildings are creeping closer and closer to the old streets.

All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Christian Jaud
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd

Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 6:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert,
thank you very much for explaining!
Now I get it!

You write:
"In Jack London's book you mention there is a photo of Frying Pan Alley, does it look a bit familiar to you?"

I'm not sure what you mean, but now that you mention it, it looks a bit like the alleged pic of Miller's court (without the white paint on ground floor) that was discussed elsewhere here on the boards. Did you mean that?
I could be completely mistaken here. But don't the windows look quite similar?

All the best

Christian



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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 217
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Christian

Yes, thats it. Not enough detail in the Frying Pan Alley pic, and the building behind the alley, looks to be at a different angle. Also in the maps I have seen up to 1913 it was open at both ends. But it does look very similar, the buildings identical and the courtyard looks to have the same paving. Maybe if not Frying Pan Alley, an alley near it?

All the best

Rob
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Edgar Hadley
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi again,

The more I study the demolition site picture,the more problematic it becomes.

As I mentioned before,the position of the "Identified" buildings in relation to the trees,has to be wrong.
Also where is the main road that is supposed to be Commercial street?
If the the Building identified as the Britannia faces on to Commercial street,at the corner of Dorset street,then the rubble from the demolition is lying down Commercial street its self!
Also,because we can see over the buildings that face out on to "Commercial street",the Christchurch spire should be easily visible,but it's not.

Best regards,

Edgar
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Edgar Hadley
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Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

This would all be very exciting were it not for those blasted trees.
Ok somebody has identified the tall structure at the top right of the photo' as being the"EXPORT"building.
So OK we can see its Dorset street facing windows with the Bitannia a little to its left in the photo,and actually over the other side of Dorset street.

But surely if we now take these buildings as a reference point,that would place our clump of very tall trees right in the middle of Spitalfield
market or down the centre of Commercial street which clearly can't be right.
These trees are taller than the towering "Export" building and we should be able to see them in the the photograph showing the Bitannia looking down a very busy looking Commercial street.
Also the low roof covering what has been "Identified" as 13 Millers court bothers me.
There is also the fact that the gap between the two buildings looks too narrow.I no the archway was very narrow but this looks too narrow


Confused,


Edgar
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 220
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Edgar

I believe the buildings on the Northside of Dorset Street between Millers Court and the Britannia are already demolished which might give the impression it is on the other side of the road.
The trees would be just out of camera position on the Commercial Street photo.
I hope this map makes things a bit clearer. It is just a rough estimate of the camera position and it's view.



Rob
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Absolutely right, Rob. That is how I interpreted it as well.

Well, Edgar, I don't think the gap looks too narrow at all; actually, my first impression was the opposite. The alley leading through the archade into Miller's Court was undoubtedly a narrow one.

All the best

(Message edited by Glenna on March 01, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 222
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Glenn

About Three feet, if my memory serves me.

All the best

Rob
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Greg Hutton
Police Constable
Username: Greg

Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was going to say

"An old saying comes to mind, 'If it looks like a cat, moves like a cat, sounds like a cat, and does cat like things, then it's a cat!'

The picture fits the map, the buildings fit the known photograph of the Britannia( look at the far left chimney on the new photograph and compare it to the Brtannia pub photgraph), the trees are in the right place, and Pasternoster row fits with the camera angle."

But I won't say that because it sounds too much like a rant, or I'm having a bad day ( which I am!).

Maybe a quick poll would help.
Regards,
Greg

I feel better now.
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Edgar Hadley
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

I'm sorry Greg but for me,this cat is still barking!

I suppose the real problem is the poor resolution of the image once you start enlarging it.

I know I just sound like a whiner and I'm going to irritate you even more,but I just can't see how the "Britannia" and the neighbouring buildings to its left match those running down the lefthand side of the Commercial street photo'.

The buildings running from Dorset street to Brushfield street in the Commercial street picture are all of a uniform height,but in the demolition site photo' they look completely different...just a higgledy piggledy mess.

Obviously the photo was taken in the Spitalfields area but isn't it possible that we are looking at an area nearer Spitalfields market beyond Brushfield street?
I hope I'm wrong and I know there is a difference in time of 20 years between the two photos that I'm comparing.

Best regards,

Edgar
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Greg Hutton
Police Constable
Username: Greg

Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Edgar,
I cant quite work out your point of ref at all,

You wrote:
" But surely if we now take these buildings as a reference point,that would place our clump of very tall trees right in the middle of Spitalfield
market or down the centre of Commercial street which clearly can't be right."

The trees are on the east side of Commercial Street and Spitalfields Market is behind and to the left of the camera position.

You wrote:
"These trees are taller than the towering "Export" building and we should be able to see them in the the photograph showing the Bitannia looking down a very busy looking Commercial street.
Also the low roof covering what has been "Identified" as 13 Millers court bothers me."

Why should you see the trees in the Commercial Street photograph? I can't see the Church because it's out of range of the camera angle and so are the trees.
Are you saying the Britannia pub photograph is wrong?
Why does the low roof bother you?

You wrote:
"The buildings running from Dorset street to Brushfield street in the Commercial street picture are all of a uniform height,but in the demolition site photo' they look completely different...just a higgledy piggledy mess."


The photgraph is of a demolition site, with some buildings still standing and some partly demolished and others completly gone, if you look at the photograph again, look at the middle of the trees, and you'll see the buildings described as uniform running along Commercial Street, these are at the back of the by now demolished Commercial Street facade, there isn't a roof in sight until you reach the Britannia pub.

Regards,
A much less grumpy Greg.}}




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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 569
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all....
The bottom picture above ..wish I could believe it to be Millers Ct....although having studied it long and hard the building at the top right looks horribly like the building that is still opposite the car park at the church end of the street,have checked my photos and hate to say it....lokks very similar....ok we all know that Millers Ct/Dorset St are no more but the angle is correct...I think....Just a thought
Cheers Suzi
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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 570
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi again
just been poring over maps and photos etc....the lower picture is fascinating...am intrigued by that building on the right at the end of the 'court'.Must say that it looks a lot longer and wider than I'd imagined....but that's imagination for you!The angles look right to me if you walked down what was Dorset St,turned right into the alley that led to Millers Ct and then looked up the court...you'd be looking towards Commercial St right??...I cant get over that building at the end...looks the same to me....if I was clever enough I'd post a photo....later maybe!! Come on....what do you think?
Cheers
Suzi
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 962
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi
I've done a bit of preliminary work on the "Miller's Court" section of the Spitalfields photo and thought I'd post
Chris

secpic
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Greg Hutton
Police Constable
Username: Greg

Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris, nice work on the photo, what progamme did you use?

Greg
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 963
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Greg
I used Micrografix Picture Publisher
Regards
Chris
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 242
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi

Further to my post on February 29, where I suggested the alleged photo of Millers Court, might have been Frying Pan Alley.
Well I came across a clearer photo of Frying Pan Alley from 1912, and as you can see it clearly isn't the same as the alleged photo of Millers Court.



Back to the drawing board.

Rob
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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 677
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow Rob!!! Great photo!
I think that in Christians post (above) that the lower photo has a far greater chance of maybe being Millers Ct than the Frying Pan alley pic.in fact if you use a fair bit of licence her it looks a tad like the passage that is to the left of the old 'Frying Pan',now The 'Sheraz' at the corner of Thrawl St and Brick Lane....I know this is probably wrong but it has the feel of that area and somewhere called Frying Pan Alley may just,just have not been too far away,bearing in mi
nd the present,modern changes to the area ...its just a thought! Looks like that photo of Frying Pan Alley must have had a serious sort of kids 'do' going on...look at those dresses and hats!Obviously some sort of occasion to dress up.....wonder what it was....Lord Mayors Show.....shurely not....I think we should be told
Cheers
Suzi
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 248
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Suzy

There is no caption with the photo, just a probable date on when it was taken. It looks like a school outing to me, but then why take a group photo in a narrow alley?
Frying Pan Alley was located between Middlesex Street and Bell Lane (I can understand why you thought it was near the 'Frying Pan' pub as that was the first place I looked.)The eastern end was just South of Whites Row, the next street down from Dorset Street.
I have doubts that the alleged photo is Millers Court, as I would expect to see Spitalfields Market in the background. When I get a chance I will try and get a hold of a clearer print of the demolition photo Greg found, it may prove illuminating.

All the best

Rob
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Linda Joy Payne
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow some of you certainly know the area. My great-grandfather had a coffee house at 58 Brushfield Street in the 1891 and 1901 censuses. In 1871 William Harris had coffee rooms at 58 Brushfield; in 1881, William Bates had coffee rooms there and by 1891 John Payne had coffee rooms there. It was between Paternoster Row and Crispin. In 1891, starting at Crispin, there was Mrs. Rebekah Barnes, pawnbroker; then Rev. John Thomas Bootle; next Solomon Freeman, glasscutter; then John Payne, coffee rooms and next to Paternoster Row was Henry Goldsmith, Fruiterer. Were some of these people there at the time of the murders? I have visited the area and there's currently a building at 57-59 but don't think it was the same building that was there in 1891. It looks to me like these buildings would have been on the photographer's immediate right in the demolition picture and it would seem they may well have been demolished too.
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Greg Hutton
Sergeant
Username: Greg

Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 5:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Linda,

It's amazing how much information is out there waiting to be discovered, for instance where did your great grandfather live before the coffee house, was he local to the area? Did he know any of the Dorset street landlords etc.

Maybe in your family archives is a photograph of your great grandfather sharing a coffee with McCarthy or Barnett. Or even photographs of the whole area, somewhere in an attic of a relative could be a photograph of Mary Kelly.

Far fetched I know, but..... besides, nobody would know who they were looking at anyway.

Ho hum!
Greg

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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 882
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Greg!!! It was fun taking those pix but still cant get that bl***dy merge thing to work despite loading the software! god am daft!!
Suzi
Guess I'd better email you!
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris

Post Number: 1277
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi
Found an advert in the Times dated 20 August 1881 regarding the sale by auction of 26 and 27 Dorset and the whole of Miller's Court.

The text reads:
Valuable Freehold and Leasehold Estates
Messrs. C.C. and T. Moore will sell by auction, at the Mart, on Thursday September 8th, at 1 for 2 o'clock, the following property:-
Spitalfields - Two freehold houses and shops, 26 & 27 Dorset Street, with six small houses, forming Miller's court, in rear. Let at 202 16s. per annum.

McCarthy is already listed as living at 27 Dorset Street in the 1881 census (i.e. April of that year) so it would be interesting to know who his old and new landlords were. The weekly rent works out at just under 4 per week.

mill1881
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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 907
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Chris!!! that's amazing!!! think this bears a look into!!!
Is it known how long prior to 1881 McCarthy lived at 27 tho......? 4 a week for that lot sounds pretty reasonable!!! and he was charging MJK 4/6d for that shabby room!! Hmmmmmm wonder how much he charged the rest.....Mrs Prater etc......extra for Diddles I'd imagine!!!
Cheers
Suzi
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2621
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris

That's very interesting. I'm a bit puzzled about the state of play when the court ended. In a "Times" article called The Aristocratic Sevenpence, for June 10th 1914, at the tail-end of the piece it says :

aristo

Then later on Jan 24 1927 we have :

jane williams

This is spelt "Miller Court" but surely it's the same place? So unless Williams had Kelly's old room, or was a squatter, I suppose they must have re-opened the cottages.

Robert
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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 919
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amazing Robert!!!!
Millers Ct...Schmillers Ct sounds the same to me!!!! Dont I seem to recall somewhere from the car boot sale of my mind ,that Mrs Prater (with or without Dids) moved downstairs into Kellys room and was there when Canadian Kit ..the reporter turned up?..May have made this up but seem to recall it from somewhere!

Cheers

Suzi
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2624
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Suzi

Prater was living opposite Kelly's room in 1892, according to Andy Ailiffe's article at http://casebook.org/dissertations/rip-kit/html

Robert
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2625
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't know what went wrong with that link, but you can find it by putting "Kitty Ronan" into the search engine.

Robert
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sarah portsmouth
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi i m sarah
do any of you have any good pic i could put on a report for my school i have looked every where.
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Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 993
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi sarah

Cant exactly work out what youre after here........let us know and Im sure someone will help
Suzi
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Fiona Rule
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In response to Chris Scott's post dated 26th July:

The properties were purchased by Abraham Barnett. Abraham had previously run a glass-blowing business out of number 26 during the 1860s and had evidently done well for himself as by 1881, he was living in some style in Portsdown Road, Maida Vale (a favourite spot for reasonably wealthy Jews as several synagogues were within walking distance.)

I'm afraid that I don't know who Barnett bought the property from.

McCarthy eventually bought the freehold to the properties from Barnett some time between 1905 and 1910.

I've often wondered whether Joseph Barnett was in some way related to Abraham Barnett as this would offer an explanation of why he and Kelly were allowed to get so far behind with the rent. This is however very "off-topic" so I'll leave it there!

Hope the above info is of interest.

Fiona
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 1036
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great Fiona!
Wow this Abraham character should now surely step onto the stage here!........sounds interesting....Thanks
Keep going!
Cheers
Suzi
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Natalia
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi!!. I'm new on this, so please, forgive my grammar, i'm a foreing.
Can you tell me what happened with Miller's Court?
What is in its place nowadays?
Thanks.
Oh!. I almost forget something.
I have a book from a guy named Tom Cullen wich has a few pictures of east end and the places where the victims used to visit. For example one of 29 Hansbury Street where Annie Chapman was murdered. If you are interested on them, just say it.
Bye. (and sorry for the grammar mistakes!!!)
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty

Post Number: 1480
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Natalia,

Check this shortcut out.......

...http://casebook.org/victorian_london/sitepics.w-miller.html

Cheers,
Monty
:-)
"I tell you I didnt do it cos I wasnt there, so dont blame me it just isnt fair....now pass the blame and dont blame me..."- John Pizer

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