| Author |
Message |
    
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 506
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 5:31 pm: |       |
Hi, Jeff:
Good catch that you noticed that in the Michael Caine TV film "Jack the Ripper" just before Mary Kelly is killed, as she is leaving the pub, the music playing in the pub is "Do You Want to Dance the Polka?"--a tune used in the 1941 film version of DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE, with Spencer Tracy, Ingrid Bergman, and Lana Turner. Seeing as Richard Mansfield, the contemporarly actor who played during the autumn of terror in "Jekyll and Hyde" in the West End, is a suspect in the Caine telefilm, I wonder whether we can deduce that the writers possibly picked up the idea to use the music while airing the Tracy film in researching their show? 
All the best
Chris |
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 62
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 6:03 pm: | |
Chris-
I remember it as "Can't you see me dance the Polka?..Can't you see me cover the ground?..Can't you see my coat tails flying, as I whirl them girls around...great lines 'eh!!
Cheers
suzi |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 210
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 7:35 pm: | |
Hi Chris and Suzi,
I think that Suzi is right about the title of the song sung by Ingrid Bergman. I do recall it was a bouncy number (not when she sings it later in the film, when Hyde (Tracy) has been tormenting her). By the way, when the 1931 version of DR. JECKYL AND MR. HYDE with Fredric March was made, Miriam Hopkins played Ivy. She sings a tune called "Champagne Charlie" ("Champagne Charlie is my name...")except that the name is changed to "Champagne Ivy" by the singer. "Champagne Charlie" was an actual music hall tune of the 1860s or 70s.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 65
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 7:42 am: | |
Hi Jeff,
Thanks it's a great song! Love the idea of Champagne Ivy!!..must look the movie up!..perhaps we should work on "As I walk along down Dorset Street with an independent air.." to the tune of The man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo !
Cheers
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1657
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 7:56 am: | |
Perhaps Kelly should have sung "Come on baby light my fire".
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 67
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 11:56 am: | |
Robert
Seem to recall there was a little number by Arthur Brown.....and something by The Move..sounds 'flaming' wonderful to me!!!
Cheers
Suzi |
Donald Souden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Supe
Post Number: 90
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 9:52 pm: | |
Jeff,
I was able to find a little background on Will H. Fox (not Cox) in the autobiography of the lyricist and later music publisher Edward Marks (a signed copy of which I was lucky enough to get once for a song -- ouch!)
Anyway, he was briefly a master of lugubrious songs in the late 19th Century. His biggest hit was "The Broken Home" and in 1890 provided the music for Marks's first song, another tearjerker entitled "Break the News to Mother Gently." When Marks first went to a publisher he was told to find Fox, who always needed lyrics, and was further told to scour the area bars for Fox because "he's in some saloon."
The two quickly collaborated on another similar song, "I'd Live Life Over In the Same Old Way." Within a few weeks, however, Fox got out of song writing entirely to become a music hall performer. As Marks wrote "His act was called 'Paddy Whisky,' a trick piano travesty on Paderewski; it consisted of playing the piano with his toes and with the gentle touch of his proboscis, which was startling if not exactly graceful. It later made him internationally famous."
If nothing else, he sounds like quite a character.
Don. |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 887
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:35 pm: | |
Interesting stuff, Don.
Everyone,
Regarding "Sweet Violets", isn't it possible that that could be a "traditional"? I believe it was fairly common in pubs and dance-halls during the 19th century, with trad. songs without any known author and with lyrics that changed through time and due to the occasion.
"Perhaps Kelly should have sung "Come on baby light my fire"."
Uuuuh.. Robert, you're beautiful... 
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on December 28, 2003)
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 508
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:28 pm: | |
Hi, Jeff
I remember that a few years ago I went out with a bouncy number. 
Chris |
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 92
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 4:30 pm: | |
Chris-Boiiiiiiiiiing!! not me ..honest! No really..HONEST!!!
Suzi |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 213
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:08 pm: | |
Hi Don,
I don't know Edward Marks either. Oddly enough that tune he and Fox composed together ("Break the News to Mother Gently")sounds vaguely like an
American Civil War ballad, "Just Break the News to Mother" about a dying soldier on the battlefield:
"Just break the news to mother.
You'll tell her that I love her,
And just make sure she understands,
That I'm not coming home!!!" 
One hopes Fox's song was not as dismal. As for the nose-piano playing, I gave you my opinion of that in my personal e-mail.
Chris, Glenn, and Suzi,
May poor Mary Kelly forgive me - and Judy Garland for that matter:
Perhaps the tune should have been "Zing went the strings of my heart!"
Best wishes,
Jeff
|
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 100
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 6:05 am: | |
Jeff,
Praps the police should have lookig for"Anyone who had a heart" Sorry Mary and Cilla!! This is getting daft!
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1699
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 1:47 pm: | |
You'll find the whole thing in "All of me, why not take all of me?"
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 106
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 4:31 pm: | |
Robert!!
Fuel for Mary's fire???????? Why have we all missed it for so long ?? Must have been her "Wooden heart" !!
Cheers (tee hee!)
Suzi |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 579
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 8:11 am: | |
Hi Jeff,
I believe that Dance the Polka number you mentioned was penned by George Grossmith who, interestingly, apart from taking on major G&S roles such as Ko-Ko, also wrote a parody of Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, called Hide and Seekyll, which was performed at the Royalty Theatre in September 1888.
Thanks to Alex Chisholm for giving me the Hide and Seekyll details last year.
Love,
Caz
PS In case anyone is wondering, no, I don't believe, and never have believed, that George Grossmith had anything to do with the ripper case. 
(Message edited by Caz on December 31, 2003) |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 580
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 10:20 am: | |
Hi All,
Before I forget, here’s a bit more useless information regarding George Grossmith.
While George would most certainly have appreciated the black comedy of the ‘Sweet Violets’ piece, I do have to wonder how his sense of humour coped when faced with the personal tragic circumstances of his own father’s death.
George was called away in mid-performance of one of his G&S roles when his father suddenly collapsed and died at a nearby gentlemen’s club. As if this wasn’t bad enough - and talking of breaking the news to mother - a messenger from the club was sent round to Mrs. Grossmith’s abode to break the news to George’s mother that she was now a widow.
Worst of all, and not something your average mother’s son would find faintly amusing, was the bizarre manner in which the news was broken to the poor woman. The messenger handed a package over to her, explaining, “Here are the sausages that were found in your husband’s pocket, and could I please have sixpence to cover the laundering of the handkerchief that was used to cover his face?”
Strange, but apparently true.
Love,
Caz
|
Suzi Hanney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 125
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 10:31 am: | |
Hi Caz!!
'Sausages' are one thing!! What about the use of "sixpence" and "handkerchief"..seem to remember that from somewhere!!
Let's all raise (or drop!) a glass to George tonight 'eh?
Grossmith/and Hutch!!!
Have a good one!!
Love
Suzi |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 217
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 8:46 pm: | |
Hi Caz,
I recall these points about George Grossmith:
1) He used morphine or opium drugs to calm his nerves before his performances at the Savoy.
2) Prior to joining the D'Oyly Carte Company, and after he left it, he had a successful career as a
nineteenth century version of Victor Borge. He gave comic monologues, complete with musical accompaniment, and this included a popular piece called "The Piano and I". He left D'Oyly Carte in 1889 (thus missing out on being in the original GONDELIERS - his last original Gilbert part was Jack Point in YEOMAN OF THE GUARD (1888).
3) In 1889 he and his brother Weedon Grossmith
published the classic DIARY OF A NOBODY. It has been suggested that Mr. Pooter, the hero of this work, might have been Jack the Ripper, but the suggestion was made tongue-in-cheek, so to speak.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Suzi Hanney
Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 155
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 4:29 pm: | |
Jeff and Caz
Brilliant Grossmith research stuff chaps! Well done!Keep going!!
Cheers all
Suzi |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 160
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 1:45 am: | |
"Sweet Vi-oh-lets....
Sweeter than the Roses,
Covered all over from head to toe-
Covered all over with..
Sweet Vi-oh-lets"
A more modern version? World War One? Anybody? |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 582
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:31 pm: | |
Thanks for that, Jeff. I knew about Nos. 2 and 3 but No. 1 was new to me, although I am sure such usage was relatively common among the luvvies of the day.
I haven’t been able to find out why George left D’Oyly Carte in 1889, at such a high point in the popularity of the operettas. Perhaps he was sick of all the re-runs of the old favourites.
Did you know that Diary of a Nobody uses the term ‘double event’? As the relevant chapter was first published in Punch after the events of 30 September 1888, I wonder if George thought of the ripper missive when including this, or perhaps it was in common usage then anyway.
No one appears to know how much Weedon contributed, if anything, to the writing of this classic. He did provide the original drawings and sketches, although he was more successful at getting acting parts than selling his art, not that this is saying much. He was always very much in his brother’s shade.
Love,
Caz
|
Steve Laughery
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 7:37 pm: | |
For John Ruffels
Hi, John!
It sounds like you're remembering the "Sweet Violets" parody my father used to sing. Go back into the Archive through December 25, and see if those aren't the lyrics you're thinking of.
I don't know where my dad got that song, but he loved parodies/novelty songs (one of his musical heroes was Spike Jones). |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1829
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 6:26 pm: | |
Hi Steve
Was it Spike Jones who made the record "He's His Own Grandpa" (flip side, "Never Trust A Woman")?
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 251
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 6:59 pm: | |
Robert
Quite rightly so my dear!
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1830
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 7:31 pm: | |
Suzi, if I remember right, the chorus used to go :
"Never, never trust a woman.
You'll be sorry if you do.
Don't ever ever trust a woman.
She'll just make a monkey out of you."
Robert |
