Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
About the Casebook

 Search:
 

Join the Chat Room!

Annie's siblings Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Victims » Annie Chapman » Annie's siblings « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mick Brocking
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Annie was reputed to have had three sisters, two of which were Georgina who was either the second or third child, and Mirium Ruth who was born in 1858 and was the forth child. Does anyone know the name of the other sister and both her and Georgina's year of birth.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 752
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Georgina's date of birth was (according to 1881 and 1891 census) 1856. the following are some notes I assembled some time ago re census info on the Chapmans. I can see no mention of a third sister. According to theses census returns, the children were:
Fontin/Fountain born 1861
Annie born 1841
Georgina born 1856
Miriam born 1861
The last date of birth is problematic. The 1891 census gives her age as 30 which would suggest a date of birth of 1861, the same as Fontin/Fountain. However in the 1901 census her age is given as 42 which would suggest a birth year of 1859 - more likely in my view as there is no suggestion that Miriam and Fontin were twins.
Hope the info below is of use
Chris

John Chapman in 1881 census:

Address:
St Leonards Hill
Apartments Over Stables
Clewer
Berkshire

John Chapman aged 39 born Newmarket, Suffolk
Coachman/ Domestic servant


Annie in 1881 census:
Address:
29 Montpelier Place
London

RUTH SMITH (Head)
Born 1819 in Herstmonceux, Susses
Aged 62
Laundress
Widowed

FONTIN SMITH (Son)
Born 1861 in Knightsbridge, London
Aged 20
Stationer's assistant
Unmarried

GEORGEINA SMITH (Daughter)
Born Windsor, Berks
Aged 25
Laundress
Unmarried

ANNIE CHAPMAN (Daughter)
Born 1841 in Knightsbridge, London
Aged 40
Stud groom's Wife

JOHN CHAPMAN (Grandson/Visitor)
Born 1880 in Windsor, Berks
Aged 4 months

ANNIE CHAPMAN (Granddaughter/Visitor)
Born 1874 in St Georges, London
Aged 7
Scholar

EMILY CHAPMAN (Granddaughter)
Born 1871 in Knightsbridge, London
Aged 10
Scholar


1891 Census

29 Montpelier Place
London

Head:
Ruth Smith aged 72 born Herstmonceux, Sussex
Supported by daughter (struck through)
Widowed
Children:
Georgina Smith aged 35 born Windsor, Berks
Laundress
Miriam D aged 30 born Windsor, Berks
Dressmaker
Other:
Grandson:
John A Chapman aged 10 born Water Oakley, Berks
Boarders:
Charles H Hall aged 21 born Charlton, Kent
Baker
Frederick R Pickett aged 29 born Summerford, Wilts
Painter
Visitor:
Henry Dicks aged 67? born Westminster, London
Grocer
Account Session Identifier: 4536277


1901 Census

29 Montpelier Place
London

Head:
Georgina Smith aged 45 born Windsor
Laundress Wash
Single

Other:
Miriom (sic) R Smith aged 42 born Windsor
Dressmaker
Single
Sister of Head

John A Chapman aged 20 born Windsor
No profession
Single
Infirmity: Paralyzed from infancy


Fontin Smith (Annie Chapman's brother)

Address:
6 Reporton Road
Fulham
London

Head: Fontin Smith aged 39 born Westminster, London
Builder's Timekeeper
Wife:
Edith Smith aged 32 born Charlton, Kent
Children:
Howard aged 14 born Fulham
Muriel aged 12 born Fulham
George aged 9 born USA (British Subject)
Horace aged 3 born Fulham
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal

Post Number: 89
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mick,
There were 3 sisters of Annie:
Emily Latitia Smith born 1844
Georgina Smith born 1856
Mirium Ruth Smith born 1858

1 Boy:
Fountain Hamilton Smith born 1861

Just to add Emily Latitia was baptized at Holy Trinity, Brompton, and was a witness at Annie's wedding.
All the best
Neal
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mick Brocking
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, I got hold of the dates of the various censuses and came to the following conclusions. Hope you agree.

Fontain born on 25th Feb 1861. He was therefore 20 at time of 1881 census and 40 at time of 1901 census. 1901 census is one year out.

Miriamís birth was on or prior to 5 April 1891 when 1891 census was carried out in order for her to have been 30 at the time of the census. She would therefore have been born between April 6th 1860 and 5th April 1861. If she had been born between 6th and 30th April 1860 she would have been 40 when the 1901 Census was carried out on the 31 March 1901 rising to 41 between 6th and 30th April 1901. This would work out making Miriam a year older than Fontain. Miriam cannot have been born in 1858 as this would have made her 32/33 or 42/43 respectively for the censuses.

Annie cannot have been 40 at time of 1881 census if she was born in September 1841. Census was done on 3rd April 1881 making her 39.

It seems that all ages are 1 year out for the 1901 census.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mick Brocking
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

Many thanks this clears up a few facts I was concerned about.

Although I tend to agree with you about the years of birth, it is possible for siblings to be born in the same year and not be twins. My Brother and I share the same age for 11 days each year, I being born 11 months and 20 days before my brother.

Regards and thanks again

Mick

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Register now! Administration

Use of these message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use. The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping. The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements. You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.