| Author |
Message |
    
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 493
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 6:09 am: |       |
Hi Robert,
If Joe did this to Mary, he also savaged her pet crocodile.
Mind you, the croc gets my vote, if it’s a choice between that and - well, put it this way. Just like the push-me pull-you, I’ve never seen anything like it in my life…. 
Love,
Caz
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1397
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 7:13 am: | |
Hi Caz
I can't fathom these photos at all. I've no idea what's going on in them.
Before I came on Casebook, I thought that the partition had been removed for the second photo, and that it's the window we can see in the background.
And what about that partition? What's a door doing in a partition?
Puzzled Robert |
Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 136
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 7:41 am: | |
Robert,
I thought that the first time I ever saw the photo, well once I'd got past the OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL phase.
I still don't know what that is exactly on the table. You know, this thread has got THE most gruesome conversation I've ever had.
Sarah |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 424
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 11:25 am: | |
Its a pillow.
Monty
 |
Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 140
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 11:55 am: | |
Monty,
I'd like to think that, but why would it be on the table? Surely it would be on the bed so why would Jack have moved it?
Sarah |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 427
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:02 pm: | |
Sarah,
Some argue that Mary was smothered. Some say sheet, some say pillow.
Monty say he not sure. Maybe it was moved by mary herself to be more comfortable.
But it looks like a pillow to me.
Hey, its just occured to me. Where is the sheets and covers/blankets? Could it be them ?
Monty
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:10 pm: | |
Monty,
I'm hoping it was a pillow but once the idea that it could be, err, something else came up, then I can't help but try to see that. I can't see it though and I do tend to lean towards it being a pillow or sheets.
Also you may ask where the sheets are, I could ask where the skin of her lower body is?
Sarah |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 430
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:16 pm: | |
Sarah,
On the table.....well, so Bond tells me.
Monty
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 148
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:20 pm: | |
Monty,
I feel like I'm chasing you around the boards. I know they were on the table but maybe the thing that looks like a pillow is it too. That second photo may have been taken so that it could record what was on the table and that "pillow" is the only thing that isn't in the first photo.
Sarah
P.S. My brain must be hurting, when you said Bond I was thinking of James Bond. Doh! |
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 497
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | |
Pillow is my first choice (or other bedding and what have you), crocodile my second choice – I’m willing to go as far as to say the croc was a natural blonde.
Jack may have got the wrong idea when Mary said “Make it snappy”.
Love,
Caz
PS Anyone see the prog last night where a biologist swallowed a beef tapeworm cyst to see how long it would grow inside him? Over 6ft when it finally came out t’other end….
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Eduardo Zinna
Sergeant
Username: Eduardo
Post Number: 29
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 5:48 pm: | |
CA-AZ! |
Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 152
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 4:37 am: | |
Caz,
No but I saw it being advertised. It looked very disgusting.
I keep wanting to say, oh it's just a pillow but I keep looking at it and trying to make it into something else.
Sarah |
Saddam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 10:09 pm: | |
When I see topic titles like this: "What can be seen in this photo," it brings out my despair of Ripperology. This isn't the kind of question to ask, folks. The kind of questions we need are good, intuitive, philosophical ones, not "Where did Mary Kelly go to wash her socks" or similar. Ultimately, the question of Ripperology is one of belief itself; it's a question we ask of ourselves. But NOBODY does this.
Saddam
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Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:14 pm: | |
Hi Mike, Billy, Sarah, Thanks to Mike and Billy for the photo enhancing. I am trying to upload a picture where I have circled what I think is the genital area. Just like a man to miss the right spot by a few inches. Ha ha Just kidding around there!
Great detective work you guys, I think you are starting to see the real picture.
Remember that Ed Gein, the transvestite serial killer on whom was based the Silence of the Lambs movie, had a collection of souveniers from his victims. He had skin vests, bowls made of skulls, and a belt made of nipples and some freshly carved out vaginas in his collection. He is portrayed in the fictional character as wanting to make himself a suit of female flesh.
I think Jack had this in mind in some sick way, to take a piece of his victim, and to destroy her female attributes. Imagine if he could have taken that whole slab with him, better than our modern day blow up dolls to play with.
They often talk about Jack being "interrupted", especially with the Liz Stride case, but I think he was interrupted every time, it just depended how far he could go before he heard someone coming. He had privacy in Mary's room to continue with his sick fantasy until he may have heard people moving about or knocking at the door.
He knew enough not to be caught in the act.
A newspaper article I was reading on here last night stated something to the effect that they "fitted the pieces of flesh back on to the body and sewed them in place", so I think that is another indication of the possibility that there was some large pieces of flesh to contend with.
You can see the pubic hair just to the right of the fold in the flesh, it is the curly looking bit there.
Sweet dreams!
Joan
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Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:25 pm: | |
Hope this works!
Joan |
Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 175
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:55 am: | |
Hi Joan
Looks like your photo didn't work. I think I know what you mean by "Just like a man to miss the right spot by a few inches." Not that first bit, obviously, but the missing by a few inches. When I first started looking at the photo in the way you are I thought I saw it somewhere else. What Mike circled just looks too big to be her genitals.
Ok, I think it's in one of these circles (I'm still not too sure:-
Sarah |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 270
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 4:00 pm: | |
Monty,
I think it is probable that the blanket is rolled up and visible next to Mary's right leg in the long photo and in the foreground (blurred) of the photograph in question. The sheet is, I believe, visible wrapped partly around Mary's left upper arm (resembling a ruffled sleeve) and around her left hip. The item in question on the table is most probably a pillow. Why wouldn't JTR put it there? If he were trying to remove Mary's head it would be in the way. Of course, it is possible that anyone could have put it there or that it was an extra pillow, perhaps formerly used by Barnett.
Andy S.
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Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 186
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 4:39 am: | |
Andrew,
It is very unlikely that there had been two pillows. This was a very poor accommodation in the poorest part of London so anything extra was not likely. They only had one key and a single bed between them so it's not likely that Joe had an extra pillow. Maybe Jack had move it there but why is it the only thing that is in the second photo and not in the first.
There is one thing I'm confused about. There was one window in the room which was on the wall by Mary's feet (unless the photo has been reversed) so where are the cracks of light coming from in the background?
Sarah |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 448
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 10:28 am: | |
Sarah,
The door is slighty ajar thus creating a crack of light.
Monty
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Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 195
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 10:38 am: | |
Monty,
If the light is coming from the door then they would have to have moved the table closer to Mary's feet end. The first photo was taken from the doorway and in that the table is on the far right side and only half of it is in view.
Sarah |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 450
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 11:07 am: | |
Sarah,
No, they would have taken it from Marys feet end.
Which meant they had to pull the bed away from the partician....unless Jack moved the bed.
Monty
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Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 197
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 11:10 am: | |
Monty,
I don't understand how that could work. In this second photo it is showing the light coming straight from behind the middle of the table which suggests that it would have to have been moved. If the table hadn't been moved from the first photo then this photo wouldn't have the table in it at all, especially with the door now somehow behind it.
Sarah |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 209
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 11:41 am: | |
Sarah, I think you have the room the pictured wrongly. The door is next to the table on the same wall as the head of the bed. When Phillips entered the door banged on the table. The first photo is taken from somewhere near the big window. There was a very good diagram of the layout of the room in the November 12th Daily Telegraph. I'll see if I can get a scan of it and post it here but it may take a few days. |
Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:17 pm: | |
Alan,
That is strange. If you can get a scan of the diagram that would be helpful. I was always under the impression that the door was opposite the feet end of Mary's bed. Maybe I got this from the film From Hell as that is how they have it. Also I always just presumed that the first photo was taken from the doorway.
Sarah |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 271
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 1:39 pm: | |
Sarah,
The "pillow" was not in the first photo because it lay just out of the frame of the picture (which only includes the half of the table toward Mary's feet).
It does seems that it is possible the table has been moved slightly for at least one of the pictures.
Andy
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