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Eric Smith
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 12:18 am: | 
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I recently heard about geographical profiling. Supposedly, it is more accuate that criminal profiling. For those unfamiliar with geographical profiling, it is the study of determining the likelihood of where a serial criminal lives by plotting the locations of his known crimes.
Has anyone heard of this being used in the Ripper case to perhaps narrow down where JTR may have lived? |
Frank van Oploo
Sergeant
Username: Franko
Post Number: 16
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 7:21 pm: |
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Hi Eric,
The only one that I know of to have used some kind of geographical profiling is Garry Wroe in his E-book 'Jack the Ripper... Person or Persons Unknown?', where he took the doorway in Goulston Street as a starting point. He describes this towards the bottom of chapter eight. This E-book can be found on the casebook (under Ripper Media, I believe).
All the best,
Frank |
Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 472
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 7:32 pm: |
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Hi Eric,
Well I think most authors on the field have tried to make such an approach, but maybe without being aware of that it is geographical profiling. As I understand, the basic elements of geographical profiling is baked into the regular profiling attempts as a part among others, although it is correct that geographical profiling IS a direction in its own right and, yes, is also considered more reliable by some.
When FBI-profilers Douglas and Hazelwood made their profile on Jack the Ripper (described in "The Cases that Haunts Us"), they looked at where the murders were committed and narrowed down his "comfort zone". They then concluded that his living area would be in direct closeness to the site of the first murder. The problem is that we are not really sure which was the first murder performed by Jack. If it was Tabram, then it would be rather close to Georges Yard, but that we can't be sure of.
They also found that the murders on the canonical victims displayed a triangular pattern on the map, which then should indicate his comfort zone. That is, as far as I know, the closest attempts to use a very basic geographical profile (although in a larger context) in connection with this case. But a complete geographical profile in its own right I haven't seen so far, I believe. If anyone should know otherwise, please correct me.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 473
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 7:34 pm: |
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Hi Frank!
(What have you been up to?)
I didn't know about the one you describe! Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out as well.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 441
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 5:56 am: |
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Hi All,
Coincidentally, I believe Professor David Canter's new book, on this very subject, Mapping Murder, was due to be launched only yesterday.
Love,
Caz |
Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 478
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 6:40 am: |
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Thank you, Caz.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Jim DiPalma
Sergeant
Username: Jimd
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 10:37 am: |
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Hi All,
Eric asks: "Has anyone heard of this being used in the Ripper case to perhaps narrow down where JTR may have lived?"
Eric, using your own definition of geographic profiling, IMO the house-to-house search carried out by the police in October 1888 qualifies as such. If one considers the boundaries of the search area, it seems clear that the Met had an inkling of what we today call the killer's "comfort zone".
Best to all,
Jim |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 319
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 11:19 am: |
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Jim,
I agree.
The question is what lead the Met to choose those perimeters ?
Monty
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Sarah
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 9:21 am: |
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Nope, but it sounds quite interesting. I've always thought that Whitechapel Road/Whitechapel High Street would be a convenient place for the ripper to live/lodge. I would have said maybe Commercial Street but Nichols was found in Bucks Row and Eddowes in Mitre Square which are quite a distance from there but they're not too far off Whitechapel Road. Just a thought. |
Jim DiPalma
Sergeant
Username: Jimd
Post Number: 38
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 8:32 pm: |
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Hi Monty, all,
Sugden, (p. 291,1995 paperback) describes the boundaries of the house-to-house search as "bounded by Lamb Street, Commercial Street, the Great Eastern Railway and Buxton Street on the north and Whitechapel Road on the south, by the City boundary on the west and Albert Street, Dunk Street, Chicksand Street and Great Garden Street on the east."
I don't own a good period map of London, but isn't Berner Street south of Whitechapel Road? Would this mean the Stride murder site was excluded? And by "City boundary on the west", wouldn't that mean the Eddowes site was also excluded? If so, it would seem that the perimeter of the search area was not defined strictly by the scenes of known or suspected Ripper murders.
Monty, I can only speculate as the reason why those particular boundaries were chosen. Manpower constraints? Jurisdictional rows with the City force? Other information developed earlier in the investigation, of which we are unaware? Some or all of the above?
Sorry I've nothing better to offer than my best SWAG, mate, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Cheers,
Jim
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Alan Sharp
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ash
Post Number: 99
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 5:38 am: |
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I don't have the Sugden with me at the moment but from memory, doesn't he also follow up by suggesting that the area around Berner Street had already been searched by this time? I think the City Boundary thing would be because the Metropolitan Police would have no jurisdiction to go further. |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 326
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:02 am: |
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Jim, Alan,
Below is a post I put on the Met Search area thread.
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:49 am:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob, Martin
Rob,
I can understand Mitre sq being left out on account of it being on Citys patch. I cannot understand why Berner st (despite your explaination..sorry) and Bucks row were missed out. As the Met covers J division Id have thought the powers that be would have pull rank and included Bucks Row's surrounding area...infact Id have thought that they would have taken in a certain sized area around each murder site. As much area as they could have managed productively.
Why would they assume he moved west from Bucks row ? Was it because of Police presence on that night ?
I just get the feeling that they knew something we dont and were reacting to it.
Martin,
You misunderstand me. I mean that the Boundary lines for the Met search area misses out Mitre sq (I guess for reasons above, City area) Berner st but more importantly in my eyes, Bucks Row.
Whilst I assume that the police procedure straight after the murder would include house to house ect around the sites, these actual areas were not included in leafleting nor examined at random as were the areas mentioned by Robert in his post dated 23/6/03.
Reading Police reports they obviously included Nichols in the murder series so why fail to include the surrounding area (especially to the East..perhaps as far as Mile End)?
It defies logic...unless as mentioned above, they had an agenda. Which makes me also wonder (my I do alot of that) how certain they were that Leather Apron was their man....and how they were gunning for him !
Baffled Monty
I think its a scandel that three murder site were not included in this search.
I cant help feel that they were working on information regarding Leather Apron.
Monty
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darryl kenyon
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 6:09 pm: |
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professor david canter,on the tv series mapping murder, using his version of geographical profiling, suggested that jtr lived in middlesex st. which is ludricous, since we know that jack passed middlesex st before he dropped part of catherine eddowes apron in goulston st. |
Alan Sharp
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ash
Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 6:55 pm: |
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Darryl
I didn't see that series so I'd be interested to know what criteria he used to figure it out, but actually it makes perfect sense when you consider that JTR killed Kate sometime before 1.45 and the apron was not present in Goulston Street until after 2.20 that he might have stopped somewhere inbetween, in which case Middlesex Street would happily fit the bill. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 454
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 5:27 am: |
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And the killer did have a couple of bloody trophies to stash somewhere. If he used the apron piece to wrap and transport them to his lair, he may have decided to go out again and discard it safely out of harm's way - perhaps somewhere that would put people off the scent and think it ludicrous that his final destination could have been Middlesex Street? 
Love,
Caz
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 333
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 9:08 am: |
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Alan, Everyone,
Middlesex St....too close to Kate/Graffito/Apron?
Bearing in mind Halse and his cronies are now on the loose.
I mean, talk about just inviting the Rossers into your lair with their housey housey enquiries.
Monty
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darryl kenyon
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 8:54 am: |
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alan and caroline I take your point,and there is no way of proving this,but it just seems to me that jack dropped the apron in the doorway on goulston st as he was passing/fleeing after he had wiped his hands/knife on it. incidentaly the programme featuring david canters use of geographical profiling in the jtr case, was a series on channel 5 [england] called mapping murder. i am not sure if there is a book out of the same name? darryl. |
Christopher Lowe
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 3:25 pm: |
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I found the following in the 'Sunday Business Post' 2001/07/15
'Gardai also used geographic profiling during the visit to Bramshill College. This relatively new field of environmental criminology analyses the spatial patterns of serial crimes and maps out the most probable location of the suspect's home. It operates on the premise that most serial criminals operate fairly close to home, and it can approximate the location of the offender's home by analysing spatial patterns of the attacks. It traced one serial killer to within two-fifths of a mile of his home.
The system was developed in 1990 by Canadian detective inspector Kim Rossmo. It is based on research which found that the way African lions hunted matched almost perfectly the serial killer.
Lions look for an animal that exhibits some indication of weakness -- the old, the very young, the infirm, the vulnerable. They will wait at a watering hole because they know it is a draw for their potential targets. "We see that all the time with criminal offenders," said Rossmo. "They go to target-rich environments to do their hunting. Spatial patterns are produced by serial killers as they search and attack.
The system analyses the geography of these -- the victim encounter, the attack, the murder and body dumpsites."'
Is mise le meas
Christopher Lowe
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Simon Owen
Inspector
Username: Simonowen
Post Number: 263
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 8:49 pm: |
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Interestingly , I found out that that the 19th century eastenders used to call the West End and the City of London past Aldgate ' London over the Border ' - this is apparently mentioned in Jack London's ' People of the Abyss ' written in 1902.
If true , this does suggest a dividing line between the civilised Western part of London and the wicked East.
And this suggests to me that the Ripper was a ' commuter ' killer ( as David Cantor might call him ) rather than a predator killer , because while predator killers are circumscribed in their activities by borders ( eg a main road or a river ) , commuter killers cross them to find their victims. And the Ripper did cross the border to kill in the City , at Mitre Square. |
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