Archive through 15 October 2002

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Archive through 15 October 2002

Casebook Message Boards: Beyond Whitechapel - Other Crimes: The Sniper (Tarot Card Killer?) in the D.C. area: Archive through 15 October 2002

Author: Ally Friday, 11 October 2002 - 12:50 pm
Well I can't speak for the rest of the gas stations but from memory, the only wooded areas are way behind the Sunuco and a shot would be blocked by the station itself as well as other buildings. The on-ramp to 66 is literally within feet of the gas station (it is the last one before you get on the ramp and as I hate to stop for gas, where I normally end up as my needle starts to edge past the E). There are stores on all sides of it...fairly urban area but I can check when I go in tomorrow. The only high ground around is the overpass of 66 itself. Again this is all from memory, I never checked the area before for potential sniping positions. Ally
Author: David O'Flaherty Friday, 11 October 2002 - 12:56 pm
I believe there's a wooded park near the school where the 13 year old boy was shot. Dave
Author: David Radka Friday, 11 October 2002 - 02:30 pm
Now, c'mon folks. Here we are getting into the kind of gross misunderstandings of each other that are endemic to public posting web sites. Since we can't see one another, we can't exactly determine how someone means what they write, and so if it impacts us we may become defensive and flame back. Over time the whole thing gets Frankensteinistically distorted. Lord knows I have been one of these people myself, among the worst. I surely don't wish harm to anyone in the area, especially those I consider friends, and I sympathetically understand their fear factor. I have to remind myself that my instincts are curmudgeonly and easily misunderstood, that I am not a herd animal. I'd like to offer a theory (just a theory, folks--don't head for the hills or the bookstores yet) for due and deliberate consideration, free of charge. First, notice how the attacks dot the perimeters of Washington DC, but don't occur within the city. Next, notice that they have lately been made at service stations located right next to highway ramps. This has resulted in a massive police presence on the highways, gunpowder-sniffing dogs, interest in a white panel truck, police stopping traffic on the highways, slowdowns of commerce, etc. Okay? Now, notice that the police say they have received personal descriptions of the shooter and the driver, but that they can't release these descriptions yet. You've got to pop the question as to why the descriptions haven't been released, folks, since it would help many people trying to identify the killers. Could it be there is something about the appearances of these men that would get folks upset? Now, notice that the news reports an uptick in al Qaeda chatter lately. Two audiotapes have been recently received, one featuring bin Laden and the other his #2 banana, which some have interpreted as possible coded go-aheads for terrorist actions in the US. Two terrorist actions have recently taken place, one against US Marines on an island off Kuwait, another against a French oil tanker off the coast of Yemen. Put the two together and you get: The two men in the van could have been reported to have a middle-eastern appearance. They may be working to create a diversion around DC without arousing suspicions within DC. The purpose of the diversion is to get everyone, including the authorities, focused on looking for a white van and traditional gunpowder weapons on the highway system around DC. This diverts attention away from what the authorities ought to be looking for at this time, which is a vehicle such as an eighteen-wheeler or a tanker truck attempting to make it into DC. When everyone has gotten themselves totally bedazzled looking for ying, the terrorists smuggle in the yang. They would then drive this truck as close as possible to the capitol or white house, and detonate it. Possibly it contains a dirty bomb. If so, the US government would be paralyzed, and DC couldn't be used as a base of government for a thousand years. Point to ponder, food for thought, speculative theory only. David
Author: Scott E. Medine Friday, 11 October 2002 - 04:07 pm
Ally, I was just curious. I don't mean for you to make yourself a target by snooping around. Peace, Scott
Author: Howard Brown Friday, 11 October 2002 - 04:23 pm
Fellow posters.......On the local Philadelphia news at noon,as they were talking about the sniper,they mentioned that across the street from where the latest person was murdered,there is a Police barracks. Obviously this means that he was shooting on the same side of the street as the barracks !!!!! Did I hear that correctly,all of you that live near this area? Thanks....Herd Animal in Philly
Author: Ally Friday, 11 October 2002 - 04:41 pm
David, You are not the first person to think that the sniper is a terrorist. Indeed, that was one of the first theories proposed which is natural considering the recent history. So actually, attributing every atrocity that occurs to al-queda is more following the herd that realising that there are home-grown nutjobs who are just as capable of random killing as the imported variety. Regardless of which theory ultimately proves correct, it is foolishness to attribute this misunderstanding to the perils of internet communication. Past history should have taught you long ago that people do not take kindly to being ridiculed or belittled for their opinions while a person sits back sphynx-like posing that they have all the answers. This is a repeated pattern and has nothing to do with typed rather than face-to-face communication. If you think your theory is superior, fine. But state it. Don't sit back and ridicule others who have the balls to come forward with their thoughts, right or wrong. If you aren't willing to share your theory in the hopes of some future profit, that is fine as well. But again, don't irritate people who are more interested in intelligent conversation that financial reward by attempting to play buddha on the mountain. It doesn't go over well. Best Wishes, Ally
Author: Ally Friday, 11 October 2002 - 04:43 pm
Scott, Moi? Snoop? The very idea! No, I just plan to look as I drive by on my way to and from shopping. I have to go by anyway, might as well pay attention this time. Regards, Ally
Author: Eric Cannon Friday, 11 October 2002 - 05:50 pm
Ally- Just a thought....why not take a break from shopping in the shooting gallery district for a while. Eric
Author: Ally Friday, 11 October 2002 - 07:23 pm
Allright..who let the heathen in?!! Refrain from shopping.. Unfortunately there really isn't any other place nearby to go. Though I've needed to go to Michaels for the last week and have been refraining. Anything else is a sacrifice I'm just not willing to make. Can't let the morons win..although I wouldn't mind kevlar underwear right about now. Thanks for thinking of me though, Ally
Author: Garry Wroe Saturday, 12 October 2002 - 07:55 am
Hello All. In view of recent history, I'm not surprised that there are those who suspect a terrorist link with the recent shootings. Frankly, though, this is unlikely, particularly given the victim selection and the weapon(s) involved. Even a survivalist group would have almost certainly acquired nightsights and committed its crimes under cover of darkness. And I doubt that a Bin Laden cell would restrict its activities to a series of single kills in a relatively localized area. Any such group would be looking towards a number of disparate, simultaneous, catastrophic events in order to generate a sense of national rather than localized panic. Like Dan, I too believe that the tarot card disclosures were a mistake. I'm also concerned that the police have revealed the calibre of bullet used by the shooter. Not only might this prove problematic in context of future legal proceedings involving the perpetrator, it may well lead to any number of imitative crimes. One can only hope that further lives are not lost as a consequence of these decisions. Best wishes, Garry Wroe.
Author: David Radka Saturday, 12 October 2002 - 11:59 am
Mr. Wroe wrote: "Frankly, though, this is unlikely, particularly given the victim selection and the weapon(s) involved. Even a survivalist group would have almost certainly acquired nightsights and committed its crimes under cover of darkness. And I doubt that a Bin Laden cell would restrict its activities to a series of single kills in a relatively localized area. Any such group would be looking towards a number of disparate, simultaneous, catastrophic events in order to generate a sense of national rather than localized panic." I don't see how any of these perspectives follow from the evidence of the case. 1. There is no evidence in the sniper case to establish whether or not any terrorists would or would not use nightsights, or would use the cover of darkness. How do you know they would do this? Specifically, what evidence related to the present case generates this knowledge in you, one way or the other? 2. How do you know that a bin Laden group would or would not restrict its efforts to a local area? How do you know how they'd presently be operating? How do you know what the difference between their modus operandi pre-Afghanistan would be compared to post-Afghanistan? Specifically, what is there in the information present to us concerning the DC sniper which tells you this? Mr. Wroe and Mr. Edwards share the same tendency throughout their writings, it seems to me: An abiding urge to sophistically graft unrelated perspectives and material to case material, and then call that wisdom. Ivor is long on interpreting the Whitechapel murderer much along the lines of common criminals he's known in prison--but he's mighty short on telling us how the Whitechapel murders case evidence demonstrates this connection. David
Author: Garry Wroe Saturday, 12 October 2002 - 08:30 pm
Hello David. To begin with, I fail to understand why you felt it necessary to impugn Ivor when he has made no contribution whatever to this thread. Equally, since I have never once claimed to be blessed with the gift of sagacity, it would be appreciated if in any future exchanges we could stick to fact rather than fantasy. The points raised regarding nightsights and Bin Laden are sufficiently self-explanatory that they require no elucidation. Yet if you are content to believe that an organized terrorist faction with access to explosives and chemical weapons would express its hatred for America by deploying a sniper in a localized area during daylight hours, then fine. I just happen to regard such a scenario as highly implausible. But only time will tell. Garry Wroe.
Author: David Radka Saturday, 12 October 2002 - 10:20 pm
Mr. Wroe, I'm not asking for elucidation, I'm asking for logical connection. David
Author: judith stock Saturday, 12 October 2002 - 11:32 pm
Dear David, I have no clue whether or not the sniper presently terrorising the DC area is or is not connected with either Al Qaeda or any other terrorist group; if YOU do, I think there are several thousand policemen who would like to have that information, so they can nail the shooter's ass and go home. Until then, speculation is the currency with which we trade, and Garry, Ivor and Bozo the Clown have every right to speculate. We ALL have been doing that of late, and will be doing so until the sniper/s is/are caught. Please allow anyone who wishes to speculate the ability to do so, without indulging in your usual tirades of "I'm right, and the whole f***ing world is wrong!". PLEASE pardon my language, all who are offended. Why is everything adversarial with you? Believe me, we ALL are trying to cut you some slack, but you do make it very difficult to continue doing so.Take a pill, read a good book, and chill, PLEASE. J
Author: Garry Wroe Sunday, 13 October 2002 - 08:38 am
Hello David. In short, I would suggest that the methodology and lack of sophistication of the Washington shooter is not of a level that I would expect were (s)he operating as part of an organized terrorist network. Those of us who lived in London during the last decade are only too aware of the hallmarks of terrorism. The IRA could have deployed anti-civilian snipers at any time but didn't. Instead they bombed Canary Wharf, Bishopsgate and many other targets both in London and beyond, causing massive devastation to people and buildings. They didn't adopt this approach on a whim. They utilized it because it works. And it not only worked for the IRA, it has proved successful for the PLO, Black September, the SLA and Al Qaeda, to name but a few. I have to say, David, that I'm not at all comfortable discussing such issues at a time when the people of Washington are being targeted by the sniper. I hope, therefore, that you will respect my intention of withdrawing from this topic - at least until such time as events take a turn for the better. Regards, Garry Wroe.
Author: David Radka Sunday, 13 October 2002 - 12:55 pm
I am taking my Alprazolam, but don't want to overdo it now that I am also on asthma controllers. That stuff really only works if you keep up the dosage and have a blood level going for you. Last evening I had an asthma attack sharp enough to turn my head as purple as a beet. I coughed myself to prostration, but couldn't sleep because I was still anxious. I finally got some rest beginning at about 5:00 AM, but then couldn't rouse myself to get up to go to church at 7:00. I'm out of kilter, sitting on a tack waiting for the next asthma bomb to go off. Thanks for your concern. David PS Judy--Remember that great Ground Round on Queen Street that was a favorite of both of us? A big crane came and ripped it to oblivion, and also the old, historic furniture store and its warehouse adjoining. The whole corner is now a sterile, sonorous Brooks Brothers pharmacy.
Author: judith stock Sunday, 13 October 2002 - 11:42 pm
Oh, HELL...really? What a stinky thing to tell me!!! I really miss that place, and the entire atmosphere of the area. And I LOVED that furniture store, too......well, RATS!!! I know WHY, though..property prices in Connecticut have ballooned all out of proportion, even in this age of low interest. The house we sold in Canton in November 1998, just resold for over $100,000 MORE than what we sold it for!!! URRCCCKKK! Guess we moved a bit too soon. Timing, as they say, IS EVERYTHING! Glad to hear your meds are trying to work, David; I worry when you go off on these tangents. Maybe extraneous rubbish shuould be avoided until things are better??? Now, I'm back to the GODFATHER II......cheers to all, and I hope you find another Ground Round, David. J
Author: Dan Norder Monday, 14 October 2002 - 12:59 am
Terrorists don't pick off random civilians one by one. That's too much effort for too little gain. Even the most incompetent terrorist could think of at least ten better ways to accomplish his goals, not to mention what his leaders could come up with. A trooper witnessed Friday's attack, so this guy is reckless and a show off. That's likely to be his downfall. Dan
Author: Diana Monday, 14 October 2002 - 08:03 am
Hope you feel better, Mr. Radka
Author: Bob Hinton Monday, 14 October 2002 - 05:47 pm
Dear Everyone, I am reading the messages here with great interest, and would like to make a few observations. 1. A terrorists job is to spread terror to such an extent that the normal routine of people is altered. 2. The IRA have always eschewed shooting civilians via a sniper as it is part of their game plan to claim to be a 'legitimate' armed force, deliberately chosing civilians as targets would negate this. I agree that they have murdered thousands of civilians but have always claimed these to be 'accidents'. Al Queda on the other hand has no wish to ingratiate itself with any westerners and therefore is quite happy to target purely civilians - look at Bali. 3. A terrorist sniper would not work at night for obvious reasons. If night attacks were the norm the populace would merely withdraw behind locked doors to protect themselves during the hours of darkness. The terrorist snipers message is that no one is safe even in broad daylight. 4. To test the theory of a terrorsit sniper ask yourself the question 'Has he achieved his aim of spreading terror and uncertainty among the civilian population?' 5. Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying this definately is a terrorist - but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility. I personally don't believe the card was left by the gunman. For the record I have just returned from Bali and stayed at a hotel a few hundred yards from the site of the blast. It seems an incredible amount of explosive was used. Bob Hinton PS Has anyone got the actual locations of the shootings? Something occured to me the other day.
Author: David O'Flaherty Monday, 14 October 2002 - 06:24 pm
Bob, there's a map of the shootings here. You were in Bali over the weekend? What happened there was terrible, and I'm certainly glad that you were unharmed. I have to disagree that these sniper attacks are terrorists at work. As someone has already said, terrorists target large numbers of people or influential political figures. Also, I can't think of any terrorist attacks that have included snipers. When we see how localized these murders are, I think we have to conclude that the shooter has ties there (lives there, works there) that a terrorist group wouldn't have. I believe that when this murderer is found, we'll find that he's homegrown. Best, David
Author: judith stock Monday, 14 October 2002 - 09:41 pm
NOT that I believe it, but has anyone considered the shootings might be the work of US terrorists, a la Tim McVeigh? I know the militia groups and white supremacists were pleased as punch over 9/11...they considered it proof of how crappy the government was/is. Might this be their handiwork? Yet another thing that makes you go "hmmmmmmmm...." J
Author: Jesse Flowers Tuesday, 15 October 2002 - 02:48 am
While watching coverage of the latest sniper attack I was interested to note an FBI investigator's observation that in his experience roughly 20% of all serial killers had accomplices. Is he totally off base, do you suppose, or is it possible that this phenomenon is not quite so rare and isolated as is generally believed? AAA88
Author: Caroline Morris Tuesday, 15 October 2002 - 05:37 am
Hi Bob, I agree with your point 4 - anyone who sets out to terrorise can be defined as a terrorist. This one may simply be working on his own to spread terror in an urge to have power and control over the maximum amount of people over the widest possible area for as long as possible. I spent three weeks in Nusa Dua, Bali, back in 1996 and am devastated that the happiness and peace of this formerly smiling paradise of an island has been so tainted by people with such hatred in their souls. Love, Caz
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan Tuesday, 15 October 2002 - 05:48 am
Hi Folks, A highly-motivated individual with little fear of death.Difficult case. Rosey :-)