Author: Nathaniel Tillman
Thursday, 11 October 2001 - 07:22 pm |        |
what are anybodys thoughts on the Zodiac Killings?
I think that the true killer only commited one murder and the other suspected murders were done by copycats. Please respond if interested. |
Author: Tom Wescott
Thursday, 11 October 2001 - 10:33 pm | |
Nathaniel,
I'm not sure what you base your theory on, but that's simply not possible. The man known as Zodiac was able to provide details regarding the first two kids killed (not counting Cherri Bates at Riverside) that only he and the police would have known. Some of the details were not even known to the police until after he provided them and they were verified. This same person wrote the Zodiac letters, so we know he killed those two kids. This same man was able to provide the same details regarding the other murders, including a bloodied piece of the cabdriver's shirt, which rules out the possibility that the letters were the work of a policeman hoaxer. So, were are left with the conclusion that one man was responsible for at least six, and most likely more, murders, and this man was Zodiac. Have you been to www.zodiackiller.com? It's no Casebook: Jack the Ripper, of course, but it's an awesome site.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Thanks to author Ivor Edwards and his new book 'Jack the Ripper's Black Magic Rituals', a possible link between the Ripper and Zodiac crimes may have been found, although Mr. Edwards was totally unaware of that. More later. |
Author: Monty
Friday, 12 October 2001 - 02:38 am | |
"This is the Zodiac speaking".......er, well its Monty actually.
I'm with you Tom old chap. We definitely know at least six of his murders. I've been to the site you've mentioned just to find out who "Starr" really was. Now he was unique.
Unfortunately over here in Blighty the only book I can find is Graysmiths. If there are any recommended Id be hugely grateful.
Monty
 |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 12 October 2001 - 03:16 pm | |
Hi, Nathaniel, Tom, and Monty:
First, Nathaniel, I concur with Tom and Monty that the Zodiac letters and other evidence appears to indicate that one man was responsible for the murders attributed to the Zodiac killer.
Second, Tom, excellent work to find a link between the Zodiac killings and Ivor Edwards' work on the Ripper case. I am assuming it has something to do with astrological signs or similar. I will look forward to your upcoming interview with Ivor scheduled for publication in Ripper Notes. Now you have me intrigued!
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Curt Rowlett
Thursday, 25 October 2001 - 08:24 pm | |
I completely agree that there definitely was more than one murder committed by Zodiac. There is a large body of evidence to prove this, much of it provided by the killer himself.
The Zodiac case and this one (Jack the Ripper) have a lot in common in that there is a devoted following of researchers (both amateur and professional) who discuss and disect the case in great detail on a similar type of message board (at Zodiackiller.com). Like this board, it is *the* place to go for information about another complex and fascinating case.
If anyone is interested, my website has a story about the Zodiac case (The Z Files) which also contains a selection of links to some of the other Zodiac websites. (Link to my site is provided in my profile). |
Author: Neil K. MacMillan
Saturday, 16 February 2002 - 02:28 pm | |
| I have a book about Zodiac in which the author states he knows who the culprit is but is unable to state publicly because he is still alive and it can not be proved. I'll have to dig it up but I believe that all of the murders attributed to him were by him. Though. He hasn't been my focus like Jack has. Kindest regards Neil |
Author: Roland Warren
Tuesday, 19 February 2002 - 04:14 am | |
| Neil, you're very likely referring to Robert Graysmith's book 'Zodiac'. The unnamed suspect was 'Arthur Leigh Allen', who has sinced passed away. Graysmith is planning a revised edition with more information on Allen to be published in the near future. The site referenced above, www.zodiackiller.com, has quite an extensive file on Allen. |
Author: Michael Leonard Tate
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 12:33 am | |
All,
The Zodiac killer was certainly a close match for JtR. The evidence against Allen as the Zodiac seems to me to be fairly damning although why the police haven't pressed further in their investigations (or if they have, why they haven't been more open in revealing their conclusions, either way) is something of a mystery too.
One thing I'd like to add is on the supposed initial murder of Bates. If this were indeed the work of the Zodiac/Allen then it would seem to be the trigger, the first murder that spurred the killer on and gave him the confidence to commit further atrocities. While the subsequent murders appear to be better organised and premeditated, was the Bates murder more spontaneous? Did he have only a vague idea of murder, or maybe violence, threatening a victim he knew or had dealings with in a previous situation?
The analogy here is obviously with Jack's murder of Tabram. Widely disregarded due to having a notably different MO, could Tabram's murder have been the trigger for the consequent murders? Trying to put myself inside the mind of the murderer, surely the first would be the hardest by ultimately emboldening, leading to a more cold-blooded and brutal series of calculated attacks.
Best wishes,
Mike |
Author: Monty
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 06:13 am | |
Hi All,
Im very interested in the Zodiac but unfortunately the only decent book we have here in Limeyland is Graysmiths.
The question I have is about Allen.
There was a lot of talk in Graysmiths book about the Zodiac having knowledge about police procedures (to the extent of possibly a policeman being the Zodiac).
Did Arty have that knowledge ? Was he an ex-cop ?
Let me know.....please !
Monty
|
Author: Jack Traisson
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 06:41 am | |
Hi Monty,
For you and anybody else who is interested there is an excellent website set up similar to the casebook. Just head on over to:
http://www.zodiackiller.com/
Lots of useful information and discourse as others on this thread have already noted.
I believe the Zodiac case is far too complex a subject for a single thread here.
Cheers,
John |
Author: Tom Wescott
Saturday, 11 May 2002 - 10:52 pm | |
Hello all,
Robert Graysmith, author of the original bestseller 'Zodiac', very recently released 'Zodiac Unmasked'. It is a very large book 'exposing' Arthur Leigh Allen ('Starr' from the first book) as the Zodiac. Although the evidence against him is strong, it is obvious from the book that there would have been nowhere near enough to sustain a conviction. Has anyone else out there read this book? If so, I'd love to discuss it.
Personally, I believe there is evidence to suggest that more than one person was working together on the Zodiac killings (probably a cult) as in the Son of Sam killings.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Stan Russo
Saturday, 11 May 2002 - 11:02 pm | |
Tom,
Was that your piece regarding Sickert, Ennui and the 'JTR' letters? If so please e-mail me.
STAN
JSDUKER@AOL.COM |
Author: Tom Wescott
Sunday, 12 May 2002 - 02:23 am | |
Yes, I'm the one guilty of writing that. I'll email you soon.
Tom Wescott |
Author: Kevin Braun
Sunday, 12 May 2002 - 10:41 am | |
Tom,
I saw the book Zodiac on a recent trip to Barnes and Noble. Next time I will pick it up. I agree with you, there was more than one individual involved in the Son Of Sam murders. In the book The Ultimate Evil, Maury Terry suggests that two of my former neighbors were involved with the Process Church of the Final Judgment. Roy Radin owned an estate on Dune Road in Southampton New York, 300-400 yards south of where I was staying. He was found shot to death in a desert in California. Years later the infamous Andrew Crispo lived right around the corner, in downtown Manhattan. Ironically, the book detailing his possible involvement in another murder is entitled Bag of Toys, by David France. Crispo is currently in prison for the attempted kidnapping of his lawyer's children. Here is a link on Andrew Crispo.
Take care,
Kevin |
Author: Tom Wescott
Sunday, 12 May 2002 - 10:44 pm | |
Kevin,
These people were your neighbors? How interesting. Did you know them personally?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. If you're going to buy a Graysmith Zodiac book, you might as well spend your money on his new one, 'Zodiac Unmasked'. |
Author: Kevin Braun
Monday, 13 May 2002 - 09:31 am | |
Tom,
I only saw Radin 3-4 times. I was under the impression he was a concert promoter, until the incident with the actress (name?) from "Welcome Back Kotter".
I was half kidding when I used the word neighbor with Crispo. I must have had several thousand neighbors. Every once and a while I would see Crispo walking the streets of the Greenwich Village, mostly late at night. His building was often staked out by the press.
Take care,
Kevin
P.S. Had you heard of or read David France's book before you wrote "Box of Toys"? |
Author: Tom Wescott
Monday, 13 May 2002 - 07:57 pm | |
Kevin,
Until your post I had never heard of David France or his 'Bag of Toys' book. Although, I'm not sure it would matter if I did, since I didn't write the 'Box of Toys' postcard in 1888, I meant coined the name 'Box of Toys' for the postcard because it wasn't dated (that we know of) and its day of receipt is unsure (either 2 or 3 days before the 'From Hell' letter), so I chose the most memorable phrase from the postcard to identify it, first on the Casebook, and then in the article.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Kevin Braun
Tuesday, 14 May 2002 - 09:32 am | |
Thanks Tom, continued success.
Take care,
Kevin |
