Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 08:04 am |        |
There has been much discussion on these boards about the victim photographs, especially those of Kelly and Miller's Court.
I thought that some of you who were embroiled in the 'FM' on the wall argument may be interested to know that I have made first generation copy negatives of the original Kelly photographs. The file copy is the photograph returned to New Scotland Yard in 1988, and it is sepia. I have done an elargement of the area in question, on the wooden partition (wall), and hope that it may assist those interested.
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Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 08:19 am | |
Here is a second enlargement, going in even closer, of the area in question.
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Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 08:30 am | |
And for those who were discussing the cuts to her left forearm -
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Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 09:26 am | |
Mary Ann Nichols
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Author: Wolf
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 12:15 pm | |
To Mr. Evans,
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!! Let's see the Maybrickites explain this one (although I believe that it would take an act of God to change some peoples opinions.)
Wolf. |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 12:45 pm | |
May I just add that, obviously, I have closely examined the original Kelly photograph and the marks do not read 'FM' at all. They just resemble staining on the wooden partition, probably of blood which has spurted onto the wall and run down.
I do appreciate that in one or two of the poorer quality book reproductions of the photographs an imaginative person can make out an 'M.' However, without disclosing any names, I do have a computer 'enhanced' close-up of Kelly's body, given to me by another author, and this mark has been over-written in black pen as an 'M.'
What is frustrating for me is when I become involved in arguments with people over what they have seen or read in books. I have as near original material as possible for all records and photographs as these provide maximum clarity - both visually and as regards information.
Stewart |
Author: Rotter
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 02:23 pm | |
| This appears to be the best reproduction of the Kelly photo I have ever seen. Could we have the rest of it...please? |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 02:34 pm | |
| I was not sure that it would be very tasteful to reproduce the whole photograph here, but if Stephen would okay it then I will. |
Author: Stephen P. Ryder
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 02:37 pm | |
Having seen a copy of the original, I have to agree that for some reason it is *much* more gruesome in sepia than in plain old black and white.
Stewart -- if you'd like, you could send me a full-scan via e-mail. I will link it to the site with appropriate warnings, so that no one will stumble across it unawares.
Thanks!
Stephen |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 02:50 pm | |
Okay Stephen, will do.
In the meantime, here is the photograph of Annie Chapman -
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Author: D. Radka
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 08:41 pm | |
Stewart,
Thanks so much!
David |
Author: Stephen P. Ryder
Wednesday, 30 June 1999 - 07:28 pm | |
Original sepia photo of Mary Jane Kelly
May be disturbing to some viewers.
Credit: Stewart Evans/MEPO |
Author: Caz
Thursday, 01 July 1999 - 04:12 am | |
Thanks Stewart and Stephen for your sensitivity in the way you have shown us all THAT photograph.
I can't help wishing I could have watched the photographer's reactions when faced with the job in hand. Anyone charged with the responsibility of capturing such an image for posterity must surely have been a very strong person indeed.
Caz |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Friday, 02 July 1999 - 01:37 pm | |
Stephen,
Thanks for handling this one for me.
Stewart |
Author: Sarah R. Jacobs
Wednesday, 10 January 2001 - 03:45 pm | |
Stewart--
For the alleged "M" on MJK's wall I agree with you-- it's staining, and it would probably look like two upended and linked ovals upon closer inspection. But the "F" I have recreated for myself, using a piece of water-damaged painted plywood I found after we had our 1893-built house redone. The "F" is what happens when lead-based white paint is elbowed sufficiently hard by a small, female elbow. I tested it. It looks like a jagged "E" in real life. MJK's death struggle is recorded on that wall in ovals of blood which have sunk into the coarse, ovoid grain of the wood, and in a last, desperate, blindly-flung elbow, which probably carried that blood to the wall, depositing it just below itself, where it seeped into the wood's grain. THen the elbow retreated when the body surrendered to death. |
Author: Diana
Wednesday, 10 January 2001 - 07:01 pm | |
| Chilling |
Author: Steve Haddon
Wednesday, 10 January 2001 - 09:55 pm | |
Hello all,
None of the above images show up for me (although images on other boards are fine). Am I the only one with this problem?
Steve |
Author: Grailfinder
Wednesday, 10 January 2001 - 10:19 pm | |
Hi Steve
No, your not alone.
I assume the images are either corrupt files or the poster made a cock up with the file format when attaching the images to the post.
cheers |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Thursday, 11 January 2001 - 03:54 am | |
As you will see from the comments in the subsequent posts the poster did not make a "cock up with the file format when attaching the images to the post." They have obviously corrupted some time since, probably quite recently.
Perhaps this is one for Stephen Ryder to sort out. |
Author: Megan Heather McFerren
Thursday, 18 October 2001 - 06:19 pm | |
Hello all!
I'm a first time poster on these boards, and I've been reading on the Ripper for almost a year now. Definately a newbie, but ah well.
My question is regarding the second photograph of the Mary Kelly scene. Not the one with her laying in bed, but the one facing the beside table (I believe). I can make out the table, and several piles of... meat?... but what direction is it coming from, exactly? I figure the foot of the bed, but I'm not certain.
Any clarification would be great.
Thanks again,
Megan |
Author: graziano
Thursday, 18 October 2001 - 06:28 pm | |
Strange Megan (Well, if you say it...),
strange coincidence but I raised this same question two days ago and a lot of nice people have already answered.
Have a look at the board appearing just under this one: The Kelly Crime Scene Photographs.
Bye. Normal Graziano. |
Author: Megan Heather McFerren
Thursday, 18 October 2001 - 06:40 pm | |
Normal Graziano,
I guess I missed that section. Thanks very much!
Megan |
Author: Tom Wescott
Friday, 19 October 2001 - 12:17 am | |
Hello,
I'm attempting to track down some info on a Catherine Eddowes photo. A miniature given to her by her aunt as was reported, but may have been given to her aunt by her, which makes more sense, and was used for the drawing of her in the Penny Illustrated Press. If anyone has already researched this lead and can tell me if I'm beating a dead horse, please let me know.
What did you all think of Neal Shelden's photo of young Annie Chapman? I have a wierd taste in girls, so I thought she was pretty cute. It's obvious upon close examination that the 'lump' on her cheek is a blurr in the photo and was not part of her.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: paul merryman
Tuesday, 12 March 2002 - 07:52 am | |
Hello,
Is there any photos available of any of the ripper victims before they were murdered?
Thanks Paul |
Author: Monty
Tuesday, 12 March 2002 - 08:14 am | |
Paul,
The genius that is Neal Shelden has unearthed an excellent photo of Annie Chapman and her husband years before her murder. Along with photos of her children.
There on a thread somewhere, try Annies. Perhaps someone can help.
Its the only photo we know of that features a victim very much alive. I know that Neal is working on the others.
Monty
PS What are you doing Saturday night ??? Yep, Ive seen your photo ! |
Author: Neal Shelden
Tuesday, 12 March 2002 - 03:16 pm | |
Hi Paul,
Monty's right about the photograph of Annie Chapman, it was available to see on a site that I set up that linked to casebook. Unfortunately, I took it off again because for once I didn't actually get permission from the family in order to put them on there. I just thought I'd do it as a favour to everyone who had bought the booklet, in order for them to see the pictures in their true colour.
I don't want to sound as if I'm trying to sell my booklets, but I do have 7 still left if you are interested?
Hi Monty,
Thanks for the more than generous words.
 on the way!
All the best.
Neal. |
Author: graziano
Wednesday, 13 March 2002 - 02:27 am | |
Paul,
I join the question asked by Monty about saturday night.
But, sorry, let me understand:
Paul ???....
Trans ?
Well, do not worry, at that level, it does not represent a problem for me. |
Author: Monty
Wednesday, 13 March 2002 - 08:19 am | |
Graz, Neal,
Graz,
Your looks and charms may dazzle, but good old British reliability, knowledge and sheer energy account for my formidable success.
Besides, My mate said I could borrow his Ford Capri !
Neal,
Usual rate. Pop it in the brown envelope and leave it at the usual time, usual place. No bouncey cheques this time.
How is the search for the other victims pre Jack photos.
Progressing or not started yet? If the latter then hurry, hurry....your public awaits !
Monty
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Author: Neal Shelden
Wednesday, 13 March 2002 - 03:40 pm | |
Monty,
Sorry mate, only have bouncey cheques as real ones tend to have the annoying habit of getting cashed. As you can see I found out where the clipart is, so intend on using it whenever I can now!  
It will take a time to find more relatives of the victims, but I have found the marriages of Catherine Eddowes two grand daughters. I'm also following up other areas of research at present. The truth is out there. 
All the best
Neal |
Author: Monty
Thursday, 14 March 2002 - 04:52 am | |
Neal,
Forget the cheque. Your hard work is more than enough for me.
You mention Eddowes and my ears prick up. We all have a victim that we feel a degree of affection towards and she be mine.
With that I bid you good fortune and may you get the rewards you deserve.
Power to you,
Monty
  
There, you've seen my repertoire. |
Author: paul merryman
Thursday, 14 March 2002 - 07:39 am | |
Neal,
How much are these booklets and what do they contain. Tried your E-mail on your profile but it just bounced back.
Paul.
Mail me the details. |
Author: Chris Hintzen
Thursday, 14 March 2002 - 08:17 am | |
Hey Neal,
Yeah I'm interested in a booklet as well. How much would it be in US Dollars? Is it easier to send check, money order, or straight cash? Email me and let me know.
Sincerely,
Chris H. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 14 March 2002 - 09:53 am | |
Hi, Paul and Chris:
The details on how to obtain Neal's pamphlet are available on this site. Go to the Casebook book review of "Annie Chapman, Jack the Ripper Victim: A Short Biography".
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Neal Shelden
Thursday, 14 March 2002 - 04:21 pm | |
Have sent emails on!
Probably best for anyone that emails me to use the other number in future:
shelden_n@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Neal |
Author: Matthew Richard Michael
Monday, 25 March 2002 - 05:49 pm | |
The victim photographs are quite interesting in that the police seem to have developed their methods as the murders progressed. Of Nichols we have a single, poor photograph of her in a coffin taken at an angle (rather disturbingly, with her eyes half open). It's difficult to see what use this photograph serves. The photo of Chapman is more useful for identification purposes - it's clearer, and the face is fully in shot. Similarly Stride, although this is clearer again (and the throat wound is visible). Eddowes' photographs are the most useful of all the mortuary shots. Aside from the lesser known image of her, pre-autopsy, lying in a coffin with her wounds visible (again, quite an unpleasant photograph but useful in identifying wounds), there's a close-shot of her face displaying the wounds (this could have been used for i.d. purposes, if necessary) and a full-torso shot showing the extent of the abdominal mutilations (again, useful both for i.d. and for medical reference). The infamous Kelly crime-scene photographs go one step further in preserving for reference purposes the body as it was found, and I'd go so far as to say that it's these horrific images that have kept the murders at the forefront of popular imagination. Unfortunately (or fortunately, for those of us with weak stomachs) there are no mortuary photographs of Kelly sewn up post-autopsy, which could have been helpful for identifying wounds in comparison to other victims. Conversely, the lack of crime-scene photographs for the earlier, outdoor murders is unfortunate, as the evidence these would have provided us with could have been extremely useful.
I find it odd, given this clear progression in photography, that later, alleged victims such as MacKenzie were not more extensively photographed. I'm inclined to believe that this was because the police didn't believe that MacKenzie's relatively minor abdominal wounds were inflicted by the Ripper. However, it does seem a step back given the efforts they went to to preserve photographic evidence of the final two Ripper murders. Nevertheless, comparing the mortuary photographs of MacKenzie and Coles with those of Nichols and Chapman (and the absence of any for Smith) does seem to indicate either that more attention was being given to Ripper victims, or that the police had realised the value of photography during the Ripper investigation, and, as a consequence, were making more of an effort to obtain high quality images for purposes of i.d. and medical reference. |
Author: Matthew Richard Michael
Monday, 25 March 2002 - 05:58 pm | |
Additional comment on the "FM" on the wall. I doubt the given explanation for "FM". Personally, I'd agree that it's just coincidental staining. However, it also crossed my mind that the "M" might actually be an "H" (the two can often look alike in certain handwriting), and that "FH" could be a reference to "From Hell".
Very, very unlikely theory though, especially since I don't think that the killer wrote any of the letters.
matt |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Tuesday, 26 March 2002 - 03:09 pm | |
Dear folks,
A minor point came to my attention this week -
on the History Channel, they were doing the
program "THIS WEEK IN HISTORY", and they were
talking about the career of Harry Houdini
(it was his birthday week). The escapologist
was fascinated with death, and had a collection
of photographs of death scenes. One was mentioned
(but not shown): a picture of a woman who had
been horribly hacked to death. Who this female
victim was was also not mentioned.
Houdini had contacts with the police - he frequently challenged the police to shackle him
and put him in "escape-proof" cells. He did this
with Scotland Yard once. He also was, for awhile,
a close friend of the author/criminologist
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who had many close friends
in police forces. My point is, I wonder if this
horrendous picture Houdini got was of one of the
Ripper victims - possibly a third one of Mary
Kelly?
Jeff |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 26 March 2002 - 04:39 pm | |
Hi Jeff,
The photograph mentioned by Houdinin will probably remain a mystery, but, given Houdini's New York habitancy coupled with his police connections, it is possible that the photo you refer to may have been of murder victim, Carrie Brown. As you know, 'Old Shakespeare' was "hacked" up in a New York flophouse in 1891 by a killer that contemporary press and police speculated may have been Jack the Ripper.
What I'm sure people are not aware of is that a police photo (two, in fact) of Brown's mutilated corpse exists, which I have personally seen (I believe I am the first to view it in a very long time), and it is extremely reminiscent of the post-mortem photo of Eddowes.
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: brad mcginnis
Wednesday, 27 March 2002 - 12:21 am | |
Hi Mike
Is there any chance you can scan those photos to Casebook? The only thing there as far as "Old Shakesphere" is a drawing. Im aware of youre research as regards to LaBruckman, and have read the "Tale of the Two Frenchys" in the disertations. Keep up the good work.
Brad |
Author: Michael Conlon
Wednesday, 27 March 2002 - 12:59 pm | |
Hi brad,
Thanks for the kind words. A more updated article on La Bruckman, "The Ripper In America", is also now in the Dissertations section.
Before I can scan the post-mortem photos for the Casebook, I'll need to do a few things first. I've promised one of the Ripper mags the first option of using it, but first I need to go back to the archives which have them and try to get some clear copies. When I was last there, I had some trouble getting access to them and was only permitted to use the rather antiquated xerox machine they had in the room to obtain copies. No matter what I did, they invariably came out very dark. I hope to find the time soon to get back with a digital camera and try once again.
Thanks for your interest.
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Wednesday, 27 March 2002 - 04:50 pm | |
Dear Mike,
I don't know if the photo is missing or not - it
might be among Houdini's papers somewhere.
It could be Carrie Brown's photo, if not Mary
Kelly's. And certainly Carrie was as destroyed
by her killer(s) as Mary was.
Jeff |
