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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Joseph merrick, the elephant man... the ripper???
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Ripper Suspects:
Joseph merrick, the elephant man... the ripper???
Author: brian james koschak
Monday, 19 August 2002 - 04:34 pm |        | when i had read that merrick was in the royal hospital in london during the ripper murders, it started as a tongue in cheek theory that the elephant man was in fact jack the ripper. it got kinda weird when the facts were added up and compared to one another, and although it remains a ridiculous idea, it, if nothing else, proves that just about anyone could have been jack the ripper.
three major points against merrick were mentioned on another ripper page somewhere:
he would stand out too much.
he wasn't fast enough to commit both of the killings in one night.
the killer needed two hands, and while merrick had one completely normal hand (the left, just as jack was reported to be), his right was lame.
ok, these can be theoretically discounted somewhat. you tell me, who would stand out more among the drunken derelicts of whitechapel, a heavily shrouded figure, lumbering slowly amongst the shadows, or a well dressed member of high society. concealed under a hood and heavy robes, merrick would blend in seemlessly.
many ripperologists discount the first of the two murders in one night to not be jack the ripper's.
yeah, the killer probably did need two hands, but whose to say that one skilled hand wasn't able?
now, the real questions... how would merrick have knowledge of anatomy? in his thirst for knowledge, maybe he borrowed his physicians anatomy text books. he had more than enough time to become knowledgable on the subject. and maybe he smuggled out his physicians knives and tools. what would be his motive? i haven't figured this out yet, but have some weird ideas i'll keep to myself for now.
of course i am not suggessting that joseph merrick was in fact jack the ripper. but like i said earlier, it makes it plain to see that just about anyone could have been a suspect.
my research is just beginning, but i am in the planning stages of writing and drawing the theory that merrick was the ripper and putting it into comick book form. it will be very very dark, black humor, but will be told in a very plausible fashion.
thoughts? comments? |
Author: Monty
Tuesday, 20 August 2002 - 08:58 am | | Brian,
Im just sitting in a cybercafe yards away from where Merrick was born...well I found it interesting !
Here in his home town we a very proud that an intelligent, artistic and basically top bloke was born here...its just a shame we didnt appreciate him at the time. I find it staggering that we do not even have a plague here. I'd love to see some memorial. His only surviving relly lives in Bourenmouth...another dull fact, eh ?
I take your point about anyone and everyone. And I bet the old Joe himself would read it.
Monty
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Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 20 August 2002 - 01:07 pm | | Hi, Brian and Monty:
Brian, I think you have pretty much answered your own question when you wondered whether "a heavily shrouded figure, lumbering slowly amongst the shadows" would be noticed. Of course they would. Such a figure would be repeatedly noticed in the witness descriptions. The fact that the men seen with the victims were not of such description and no such description exists among the witness descriptions must mean that Merrick was not the murderer quite apart from his physical deformities.
By the way, there is debate about whether the Ripper was right- or left-handed, so knowing Merrick had one good hand, i.e., his left hand, is not helpful!
Monty, great to know you were posting from an Internet café close to where Joseph Merrick was born is great. I have been to Leicester on a number of occasions. I agree that there should be some sort of historic marker to honor the Elephant Man's connection with Leicester.
All the best
Chris George
P.S. Brian, the Elephant Man was in the London Hospital, Whitechapel Road, not the Royal Hospital. Just a clarification! |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 20 August 2002 - 01:12 pm | | Hi, Monty:
Possibly the bloke who runs the website on the Elephant Man, known as the Elephant House should be approached about the idea of putting up a historic plaque in Leicester to remember the life of Joseph Merrick, the Elephant Man. Will you do it or shall I?
All the best
Chris George |
Author: Dan Norder
Tuesday, 20 August 2002 - 06:49 pm | | Brian,
As many people (myself included) do not think the Ripper needed anatomical knowledge (and in fact believe someone who did has such knowledge would have approached the rippings differently), that identifying trait isn't needed either.
I do think there should be a list of traits that must be considered as essential in determining if someone could be a ripper suspect, but getting everyone to agree to what they are appears to be impossible.
Dan |
Author: Monty
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 11:58 am | | Chris T,
Go ahead, your far more articulate than I.............see !
Keep me posted.
Monty
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Author: Monty
Monday, 23 September 2002 - 09:13 am | | Chris T,
Copy of an article I found in our local rag, The Leicester Mercury.
Odd that it should happen only months after our exchange of posts !!
Anything to do with you ???
"CALL TO HONOUR ELEPHANT MAN
BY MARY MURTAGH
10:30 - 20 September 2002
A campaign has been launched to commemorate the life of one of Leicester's most famous sons - the Elephant Man.
Joseph Merrick was born and lived in the city, before finding refuge in a London hospital.
Now, a campaign to put up a plaque or stone to remember his life has been started by a London woman touched by his life story.
Joseph has no known grave and his remains are kept at the Pathology Museum at the Royal London Hospital.
Jeanette Sitton has set up a website as a tribute to the deformed salesman turned freak show act. The site has attracted e-mails and letters of support.
She said: "Joseph Merrick is just as worthy of a plaque as a poet, author or composer.
"He donated his body to medical science and thanks to him, one day we will find a cure for Proteus Syndrome, which he is believed to have suffered from.
"What struck me about him was the courage and determination that he showed - he was a great source of inspiration.
"Joseph Merrick is one of our national heroes - an unsung hero."
John Burrows, Leicester Civic Society spokesman, has given the idea of a plaque his backing.
He said: "It is a good idea. Lee Street is still there but the house where he lived no longer exists. A plaque somewhere in that vicinity would be great.
"Joseph Merrick did a lot to get rid of prejudice against people with deformities."
The Elephant Man myth began from stories that his deformities were caused by his pregnant mother being frightened by an elephant at the Humberstone Gate Fair.
In recent years, they have been attributed to the fact that he was probably suffering from the rare Proteus Syndrome, which manifests itself in enlargement of parts of the body, including skull, hands and feet.
Merrick was born in the slums of Lee Street, Leicester, in 1862.
As an adult, he supported himself by working in a cigar factory and as a door-to-door salesman, before deciding to exhibit himself in a travelling show.
It is probable that he appeared at the Gaiety Theatre, which was on the corner of Wharf Street and Gladstone Street, in Leicester. By 1881, he had ended up in Leicester's Swain Street workhouse.
During his 20s, he was given accommodation at the Royal London Hospital by Dr Frederick Treves.
He died there in 1890 at the age of 27 - believed to have been suffocated by the weight of his own huge, misshapen head."
Monty
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Author: Christopher T George
Monday, 23 September 2002 - 11:07 am | | Hi, Monty:
Excellent news! I am pleased to see that it looks as if something is going to be done to remember one of Leicester's famous sons, Joseph Merrick, otherwise known as the Elephant Man, with some type of plaque or stone. Thanks for posting this article, Monty.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Esther Wilson
Monday, 23 September 2002 - 05:29 pm | | Thanks for posting this article Monty.
Esther |
Author: Leanne Perry
Monday, 23 September 2002 - 06:11 pm | | G'day,
I have just written an article on 'Joseph Carey Merrick' for the Australian magazine 'Ripperoo'.
Merrick would have been at his home at the London Royal Hospital when Mary Ann Nichols was murdered just across the road.
Knowing that he most certainly would have read newspaper reports at the time, (because he loved to read), and often went on nightime strolls through the hospital grounds, I wonder if he saw anyone 'hanging around' the area, but who would have taken any notice of him?
I also wonder if the true Whitechapel Murderer ever witnessed one of Merricks 'Freakshow' appearances at Tom Norman's 'shop', just across the road from the hospital.
He deserves a plaque or stone!
Leanne! |
Author: Monty
Wednesday, 25 September 2002 - 08:20 am | | Chris T, Esther, Leanne,
When I was younger I read an autobiography on Joseph.
Towards the end there was a extremely moving poem.
I cannot find this book anywhere and I certainly cannot remember its author.
Would there be any chance that one of you can remember/find it and place it here.
I would be mostly grateful.
Thankful Monty
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Author: Chris Jd
Wednesday, 25 September 2002 - 11:05 am | | Monty
don't know the book you're talking about, but maybe you mean this poem:
'tis true my form is something odd
but blaming me is blaming God
could I create myself anew
I would not fail in pleasing you.
Was I so tall, could reach the pole
or grasp the ocean with a span
I would be measured by the soul
the mind's the standard of the man.
Christian |
Author: Leanne Perry
Thursday, 26 September 2002 - 09:23 am | | G'day Monty,
Amazon have many books on the Elephant Man including:
'The True History of the Elephant Man' by Michael Howell,
'The Elephant Man' by Bernard Pomerance,
'The Elephant Man: Stage 1 Headwords' by Tim Vicary,
'The Elephant Man' by Christine Sparks,
'The Elephant Man A Study in Human Dignity' by Ashley Montagu,
'Man Equals Man' by Gerhard Nellaus,
'The Elephant Man' by Christine Sparks,
'Notes of a Man Lost in the Corridors of Time' by Peter Tuora Ander,
"Words For Elephant Man' by Kenneth Sherman,
'The Elephant Man A Study In Human Dignity' by Ashley Montagu.
LEANNE! |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 27 September 2002 - 07:22 am | | Dear Leanne,
Following in the footprints of Jack the Pachyderm,
is this a likely suspect for the trunk murders?
Rosey :-) |
Author: Monty
Friday, 27 September 2002 - 12:35 pm | | LEANNE !
I dont remember the title......aaaaaarrrgghh !
Thanks anyway.
Chris,
Nice poem...but it wasnt that ! I have a feeling it was something Joseph wrote himself.
Rosey,
Pink elephants on parade....now we know what threw old Pearly !!
Monty
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Author: Monty
Saturday, 05 October 2002 - 07:45 am | | Chris Jd,
Huge apology....it was that !
What was I thinking of ??
Monty
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Author: chris scott
Friday, 10 January 2003 - 01:25 pm | | http://www.jsitton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/elephantman/elephant_man.htm
A tribute site to Joseph Merrick which discusses the Ripper allegation (from left hand menu go to Whitechapel Rumours)
Also updates about moves for blue plaque
Chris S |
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