Author: Diana
Thursday, 02 January 2003 - 02:14 pm |        |
There are really two paradigms for Jack's method of obtaining victims. Unless he varied his method, they both can't be true. Under the stalking paradigm he follows the victim around, sizing her up and when he decides she would be appropriate he suddenly attacks. He does not have to pretend to be a customer. If Israel Schwartz was right, then JTR walked up, said a couple words, and assaulted Stride. She did not lead him anywhere. When we find her body 15 minutes later it is inside Dutfield's yard which leads me to my next point. Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes were all found in the vicinity of a gate or door. Nichols and Eddowes were found outside it. Chapman and Stride were found inside it. Suppose the initial attack occurred on the street. If there were witnesses or the woman resisted he would drag her inside to finish. In Chapman's case Mrs. Long had just come by. We see in Schwartz the typical reaction to a woman being assaulted on the street. "I don't want to get involved."
The second paradigm is the customer paradigm. The woman arranges to service Jack and and leads him to a remote location where he attacks her. This apparently didn't happen with Stride if we are to believe Schwartz. Why would four different women all pick a spot in front of a fence gate or in Chapman's case an unlocked door which led to a back yard via a hallway?
If we adhere to the stalking paradigm we still have to accept a small change in MO re: Kelly. I think its possible he was really after Maria Harvey. He watches her for several days going in and out of #13 Miller's Court. He observes her using the broken window to get in. Finally he opens the door and sneaks in in the middle of the night. He sees a figure on the bed in the dark which he assumes is Harvey. He starts to assault her, she wakens, yells and he quickly slits her throat in the dark. Then he lights the candle and sees that he has killed a totally different person. His wierd compulsions kick in and he proceeds to mutilate her anyway. |
Author: Brian Schoeneman
Thursday, 02 January 2003 - 10:50 pm | |
D,
Good points all - except the fact that they are predicated on Schwartz's testimony. 
The gates or doors is probably simply a factor of the locations - they were all alleys or small throughfares off the main streets. They would be entrances or side exits off the buildings that were adjacent to the areas - but Viper can speak to this more readily than I.
The stalking paradigm, in my mind, still has to beat the simplicity idea. It's just a simpler, more elegant solution than the idea of him stalking his victims. Like I've said before - he probably didn't have the time.
And if he was after Harvey, why didn't he go back and get her?
B |
Author: Diana
Friday, 03 January 2003 - 12:40 pm | |
| That goes to the issue of "Why did he stop" which is another thread, but by that time Harvey had moved out and he didn't know where. |
Author: Harry Mann
Saturday, 04 January 2003 - 04:35 am | |
Diana,
If the killer was watching millers court that night,the only female he would have seen entering was Kelly.If he had been previously stalking Harvey,he would surely have been able to identify her,and not mistaken her for kelly.
Hard to know what you mean by middle of the night,but Hutchinson claims to have been opposite Millers court from around Two A.M. till 2.45,at which time there is supposed to have been a male person also in the room.
I'm not saying your idea is incorrect.I agree that the murderer probably entered while a person was abed in the room.I believe the room would have been so dark,that not even the bed would have been visible,but the killer knew it was Kelly there,and just lit a match to ascertain the position she was on the bed.
Of course this pre supposes that the killer was familiar with Kelly,her room and a means of entry.
Certainly not a stranger. |
Author: Diana
Saturday, 04 January 2003 - 12:03 pm | |
| Hutchinson says he left at 2:45. Prater heard "Oh Murder" at @ 4AM. I would posit that sometime in that 1 hour and 15 minutes the dandy described by Hutchinson left and JTR who had been watching knew that both were now gone and the coast was clear. He enters Mary's room and in the dark mistakes Kelly for Harvey whom he has been stalking. He has, after all seen Harvey enter this room several times during the previous week. He then attacks in the dark, eliciting the "Oh Murder" and quickly silencing Mary with his knife. Only then does he light the candle and discover his mistake. |
Author: Diana
Saturday, 04 January 2003 - 12:07 pm | |
| PS. He would have had to come along after Mary and the Dandy entered the room. Being very cautious he would consider the possibility that Harvey had a man in there and he would wait till somebody came out. |
Author: Harry Mann
Sunday, 05 January 2003 - 03:47 am | |
Diana,
If he was stalking Harvey,surely he would have made sure that she entered that room sometime that night,then made sure that Kelly departed the room,leaving Harvey alone inside.
Your last post would presume that after stalking her for days before,on the fatal night he took pot luck on her being there alone,and that Kelly would not put in an appearance. |
Author: Diana
Sunday, 05 January 2003 - 04:20 pm | |
| I'm not sure he knew there was anyone besides Harvey living there. |
Author: Dan Norder
Sunday, 05 January 2003 - 06:00 pm | |
Considering the area it'd be foolish to assume that anyone would be living alone. If this was a break in instead of being brought in as a customer I'd find it extremely difficult to believe that he'd think Harvey lived there and didn't know anything about Kelly. He would have had to scout out to try to determine if he'd be uninterruptd or not, and a minimal amount of watching, especially on the night in question, would show Kelly as the main occupant.
Considering the number of people that had been in and out of that place, the killer must have known from stalking or from being told by Kelly herself that he wouldn't be interrupted that night. The other alternative is to assume it was yet another amazing bit of luck that he just accidentally happened to be there when he would be uninterrupted.
Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------
Consider supporting this great site by making a donation |
Author: Caroline Morris
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 07:55 am | |
I agree. If Jack was daft enough to enter that room assuming Harvey was in bed and alone, and didn't realise Kelly could have been there too, or instead, he could just as easily have bumped off Barnett by mistake!
I tend to think Jack was there by Kelly's invitation, and that he had been sufficiently reassured that they wouldn't be disturbed for the amount of time he wanted with her.
But of course I could be totally wrong.
Love,
Caz |
