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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Hats, Clothing. Don't know what they look like. Help.
Casebook Message Boards: General Discussion: General Topics:
Hats, Clothing. Don't know what they look like. Help.
Author: Stuart
Thursday, 05 December 2002 - 10:57 am |        | Hi all.
I've tried via the web to find out what Billycock and Wideawake hats actually are. What they look like. A P&O cap has been mentioned in some books I've read too. Is that like a blue cloth cap type thing with...here it comes...P&O on it?
My word, that sounds like a daft question now I've typed it in, but I just don't know, so I'll have to stand the embarassment.
I know Top Hat, Bowler and Trilby, but I've got no idea what these items look like.
Also, some of the items of clothing bandied about mean nothing to me (my usual garb being jeans and a Metallica T-shirt, I don't know what a coat is!).
Astrakhan(sp?) for example. Is that a type of cloth, or a style of cut?
Cheers
Stuart |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Thursday, 05 December 2002 - 01:20 pm | | Stuart -
Billycock and bowler hats are similar to what we Yanks call a 'derby' (think of Curly of the Three Stooges), although a billycock is slightly taller. You know what a top hat is; the formal shiny silk black hat the evil Snidely Whiplash wears. A wideawake is variable, but most that I have seen are along the lines of the hat worn by the Quaker Oats man, though not quite so large. A trilby is, I believe, a small hat with a snap brim; along the lines of a fedora (the Indiana Jones hat), but not nearly so large, and more close-fitting to the head.
I'm afraid a P&O cap leaves me at a loss for the moment. I'm sure someone on the website can say for certain.
Astrakhan is (was) a type of dark, very curly wool used as a collar on coats; the word was also applied to imitation fur that looked like astrakhan.
Somewhere on this website there used to be illustrations of these various hats, but I'm afraid I don't know the location just now.
Hope this is of some help,
Christopher-Michael |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Thursday, 05 December 2002 - 01:29 pm | | Hi, Stuart and CMD
If you go to Witnesses, General Discussion, What Did the Ripper Wear, someone posted a sketch of a wideawake hat.
Dave |
Author: Stuart
Friday, 06 December 2002 - 03:48 am | | Cheers guys.
If I had only looked in Witnesses eh?
I must admit I find some things very hard to find on this site...excellent though it is!
Thanks again.
Stu |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 06 December 2002 - 11:16 am | | Hi, CM and Stuart:
The P&O cap is merely the sailor's cap that Chapman is said to have worn, like the one he is seen in the photograph with Bessie Taylor that I have posted on these boards in the past.
The P&O Line was a shipping line. Specifically, they were the Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Company, founded in 1836, which sailed between London and Spain on the Iberian peninsula and points east.
Maybe the sailor from whom Chapman got the cap from was one of those sailors whose throat he slit while in the barber's chair and later dismembered, if we are to believe R. Michael Gordon's latest book, The Thames Torso Murders of Victorian London. 
All the best
Chris George |
Author: Stuart
Friday, 06 December 2002 - 11:33 am | | Thanks Chris.
I've got that piccy of Chapman in the Sugden book.
My missus saw it and said "It's him...look at the size of his tache !" I said, "hold on dear. have you seen a picture of Tumblety?" I showed her. She said...anyways. :-) Only jesting.
I wish there was a piccy of Mr Bury floating about somewhere. I'd like a face to put to my No2 suspect.
I keep picturing in my mind this red faced thug of a guy...with a big tache.
Thanks again.
Stu |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 06 December 2002 - 11:54 am | | Hi, Stuart:
Glad that information was helpful. Certainly, as you say, if the size of the moustache was the criterion for finally capturing the Ripper, either Mr. Chapman or Dr. Tumblety would be the one!
All the best
Chris |
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