Author: chris scott
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 06:58 pm |        |
Recently the Uk Public Records Office has placed the full Uk census that was carried out in March 1901 on its internet site.
I am starting sweep for significant names relevant to the Ripper case. So far I have found:
The Sickert household in Kensington (but no mention fo Walter)
John Netley
Woolf Kosminski and full house and address details
Israel Schwartz
The Lavende household
Martin Kosminski
The targets I am trying to narrow down to are Joseph Barnett and Annie and Alice Crook plus many others!
There is a lot of info on the census including, full address at the time of the census, age, occupation, where born, marital status, relationship to other emembers of the household.
As an example of the information available:
MARTIN KOSMINKI
At the time of 1901 census was living at 48 Berners Street, was aged 58 , profession is FARRIER, was born in Kalish but was British subject.
Others in his household at the time were:
Augusta, his wife aged 49
Charles, his son aged 28
Jessie, his daughter aged 26
Katie, his daughter aged 24
Any interesting findings I will post here. I'll post details of the Sickert household and Netley asap.
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 07:12 pm | |
The Netley details are as follows:
Address:
3 Amberley Road
Paddington London
Head of Household:
JOHN NETLEY
Aged 69
Widower
Born in Sussex
Profession: Hackney Carriage driver
His son:
JOHN NETLEY
Aged 40
Single
Born in Paddington
Profession: Carman
Hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: Scott Nelson
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 07:33 pm | |
| The Woolf Kosminski in the 1901 census was probably not Aaron's brother. Woolf's age was recorded as 54. He and his family had come to London between 1890-1893. This Woolf was likely the master tailor who died in 1930 at 23 Baker Street, Stepney (traced by Paul Begg) |
Author: chris scott
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 07:45 pm | |
The Lavende household from the 1901 census. the only family under this name and there are no entries under the name LAWENDE.
Address:
7 Great Alie Street
Whitechapel
Head of Household:
Fanny Lavende
Aged 48
Widow
Born in Whitechapel
The following children are listed, all born in Whitechapel:
MOSS - son aged 26
LILY - daughter aged 24
ESTHER - daughter aged 22
JULIUS - son aged 21
HARRY - sone aged 19
DAVID - sone aged 17
ROSE - daughter aged 15
ANNIE - daughter aged 12
CAROLINE - daughter aged 8
ALFRED- son aged 4
If Fanny was the widow of Joseph Lawende (Lavende) then in view of age of Alfred he must have died some time after 1897
Hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: Steve L
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 09:14 pm | |
Hello Chris,
The only record that I could find for Walter Sickert, which looked plausible is:
Name = Bernhard Sickert
Age = 38
Nationality = British Subject
Residence = London Kensington
Occupation = Artist Painter
There must be a little doubt about whether this record refers to Walter Sickert, but there are a number of similarities. E.g. Surname, Occupation, residence. Does this confirm a statement in the first chapter of Cornwell’s book: that Sickert liked writing under a pseudonym! Or did the 1901 census recorder make an error, or could the transcriber have read Sickert’s middle name of Richard as Bernhard?
Regards,
Stephen
P.S. For information of Lawende, look under a thread from September under his name from about a month ago. His wife's name was Ann. |
Author: David Radka
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 10:04 pm | |
Hi Scott,
As far as I know, there were two people who variously went by "Woolfe Kosminski" or variant.
1. The one who was not related to Aaron Kosminski. Real name: Woolf Kosminski. Tailor by trade, eventually a Master Tailor.
2. The one who was Aaron Kosminski's brother-in-law. Real name: Woolfe Abrahams. He used "Wolf Kosminski" when signing Aaron into (I believe) Colney Hatch Lunatic Asylum, presenting himself as Aaron's brother. Also a tailor by trade.
Aaron Kosminski may not have had a brother. A Michael Kosminski living with Isaac Kosminski in Ghoulston Street may have been his brother, if Isaac were his father, but this has not been proven.
Does this tally with your records? Am I getting the spellings correct? Thank you kindly!
Best Regards,
David |
Author: Dan Norder
Thursday, 31 October 2002 - 10:50 pm | |
Stephen-
Sickert lived in France at the time of this census, so there's no need to look for him in the list.
Dan |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 01 November 2002 - 08:38 am | |
Hi people!
Glad to see the census data is providing some interest. I suppose I should have made it clear that I am not drawing any inferences from any of the data - just searching the census for pertinent names and see what comes up! My only intention is provide this data to the casebook so that people can make of it what they will. I am not supporting or arguing for any particular "suspect" but searching a newly available source of data (albeit compiled almist 13 years after the murders) to which everyone may not have access.
I hope this helps
Chris |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 01 November 2002 - 08:48 am | |
Details of the Sickert household from the 1901 census:
Address:
12 Pembroke Gardens
Kensington
London
Head of household
Eleanor Sickert
Aged 70
Widow
Born in London
The following offspring are listed:
Robert Sickert
Son
Aged 39
Single
Profession - "own means"
Where born: British Subject
Bernhard Sickert
Son
Aged 38
Single
Artist/Painter
British Subject
Oswald Sickert
Son
Aged 30
Single
Journalist
Born in London
Leonard Sickert
Son
Aged 27
Single
Musician/singer
Born in London
Also listed are:
Elsie Mathew
Visitor
Aged 43
Musician/singer
Born in Gross Glogan (German subject)
Ada Rignell
Servant
Aged 24
Cook/domestic
Born in London
Harriett Chapman
Servant
Aged 23
Housemaid
Born in Wimbish, Essex
Hope this is of interest
Chris S |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 01 November 2002 - 09:47 am | |
Household details for Israel Schwartz
Address:
8 Little Alie Street
Whitechapel London
Head of Household:
Israel Schwartz
Aged 35
Russian Subject
Profession: Cigarette Maker
Also Listed:
Millie Schwartz
Wife
Aged 35
Russian Subject
Samuel Schwartz
Son
Aged 6
Russian Subject
Rueben Schwartz
Son
Aged 2
Born: Glasgow, Scotland
Mary Schwartz
Daughter
Aged 2 months
Born Whitechapel
Chris S |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 01 November 2002 - 09:57 am | |
Re: Woolfe Abrahams - David's comments. I did a search under WOOLFE ABRAHAMS and no entries were found. By dropping the -e and searching under WOOLF ABRAHAMS the following were found (in descending age order:
WOOLF ABRAHAMS:
1) Aged 50
Born in Whitechapel
Living in Bethnal Green at time of census
Profession: General Dealer
2) Aged 39
Born in Poland (listed as Russian subject)
Living in Morth manchester
Tailor
3) Aged 30
Born in Whitechapel
Living in London (St Georges in the East)
Photographer
4) Aged 28
Born in Russia
Living in Whitechapel
Cabinet Maker
There are 6 others listed ranging in age from 4 to 22 years of age. 5 of these are lised as being born in or living at the time of the census in Whitechapel or Spitalfields.
Hope this is of interest David
Regards
Chris Scott |
Author: David Radka
Friday, 01 November 2002 - 10:45 am | |
Thanks, Chris. Let's wait for Mr. Nelson to reply--he had done some work on this in the past.
David |
Author: Scott Nelson
Friday, 01 November 2002 - 10:48 am | |
Hi David,
Yes Woolf Abrahams was Aaron's brother-in-law.
Chris, Woolf was actually living at 207 Bury New Road, North West Manchester in the 1901 census. His age was 39, occ. tailor, wife Betsy (nee Kosminski), children: Rebecca, Millie, Matilda,Yetta, Joseph, Solomon and Harry.
The Isaac(s) Kosminski(e) and family living at 79 Goulston St. in the 1891 census disappear by the time of the 1901 census. The Brunswick Buildings, in which they lived, was on the west side of Goulston St., almost directly across from a public bath house that was open 24 hours a day, I believe. The piece of apron was discarded about 100 yards away. |
Author: Noel c. Auger
Saturday, 02 November 2002 - 05:12 pm | |
Could this be the same Woolf Abraham (Age 18,Born Poland,`Wifes Brother,Tailor`.Head of household was Ephraim Freedman,wife was Betsy Freedman all residing at 31 Dorset Street in the 1881 census
(FHL Film1341095 PRO RefRG11Piece 0437 Folio 13 Page 19)
or perhaps
Woolf Abrahams,Age 18,born Poland, Lodger,Tailor at 45 Boyd Street,St Goerges in the East.Head of household Moses Abrahams,Tailor age 45 born Poland
1881 censusFHL Film no 1341099 Pro Ref RG11 Piece 0453 Folio73Page38
There do not seem to be any other Woolf Abrahams that fit the description from the 1881 census. |
Author: Scott Nelson
Sunday, 03 November 2002 - 02:51 am | |
| Hi Noel, Woolf Abrahams, the brother-in-law of Aaron, was definitely born in Poland. He could have come to London sometime prior to 1881 and then met and married his wife, Betsy Kosminski. Their first-born, Rebecca, was born in London in 1882. But Aaron's burial record shows that he came to London in 1882, and it is highly likely, although not documented with certainty, that Aaron emigrated to Britian with his sisters, Betsy and Matilda after a stay in Germany from 1880-1882. But I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that Woolf, a young 18 or 19 year old unmarried imigrant, could have come over by himself and lodged with other Poles sometime prior to 1881. The early 31 Dorset Street address is particularly interesting in view of a possible Kosminski connection to the JtR murders. |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Wednesday, 06 November 2002 - 08:29 am | |
For those who want to check Fred Abberline in the 1901 census he's at 313 Clapham Road Lambeth with his wife Emma, a 9-year-old visitor Harold Charles Gibbons and two boarders, one of whom is John Phillip Collins an Author and Newspaper editor.
And next door, as a boarder in the house of William Knight is Rene Francis Reignier Conder a 42-year-old Librarian from Naples. |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 06 November 2002 - 08:55 am | |
Hi, Peter:
Thanks for that useful information on Fred Abberline's residence at 313 Clapham Road, Lambeth, as recorded in the 1901 census. Do you presume his neighbor, René Francis Reignier Conder, a boarder in the house of William Knight, to be a sibling or kin of recently alleged suspect Colonel Claude Reignier Conder?
All the best
Chris George |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Thursday, 07 November 2002 - 07:10 am | |
Chris:
Although mention of Conder seems to be a little hazardous as my last comment on his unlikely candidacy caused an email to be sent to me mentioning solicitors, I must say that it seems unlikely that a Francis Reignier Conder would not have some relationship to a Claude Reignier Conder.
We can only ponder at the incredible coincidence that a probable relative of a recently alleged suspect should have lived so close to one of the Police Officers involved in the case. The mention of Naples as a birth-place is puzzling and as I can't remember where Claude was born I can't say whether it's significant. |
Author: chris scott
Thursday, 07 November 2002 - 06:53 pm | |
MORGANSTONE
I have reread the Kelly inquest report and did a search for MORGANSTONE, a man she lived with prior to Barnett and/or Fleming.
There is not one entry in the 1901 census under the name Morganstone and onlt one MORGAN STONE, an infant.
However the name MORGANSTEIN shows the entries below and the residences in Shoreditch and Spitalfields may be of interest:
Morganstein
1901 Census
Abraham Morganstein
Aged 27
Born: Russia
Residing: Hackney, London
Profession: Commercial traveller
Barnet Morganstein
Aged 24
Born: Germany
Residing: Bethnal Green, London
Profession: Cigar maker
Hyam Morganstein
Aged: 9 months
Born: Hackney, London
Residing: Hackney
Profession: Not applicable
Hyman Morganstein
Aged: 24
Born: Russia
Residing: Spitalfields, London
Profession: Baker
Marks Morganstein
Aged: 13
Born: Russia
Residing: Shoreditch, London
Profession: Not applicable
Morris Morganstein
Aged: 3
Born: Spitalfields, London
Residing: Shoreditch, london
Profession: Not applicable
Morris Morganstein
Aged: 22
Born: Russia
Residing: Mile End, London
Profession: Furrier
Simon Morganstein
Aged: 44
Born: Russia
Residing: Shoreditch, London
Profession: Mattress Maker |
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 02:16 pm | |
Hello Chris Scott,
Great bit of research. It's got to be Simon Morganstein for me. Right age abt 31 in 1888, right location and what about that job for a profession, mattress maker!
All we have to do is find out who made that mattress in 13, Millers Court. Perhaps Mary Kelly paid the ultimate price for complaining it was too lumpy. |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 02:25 pm | |
Hi all.
I thought someone had tentatively identified the man as 'MORGANSTERN'. Perhaps one of these?
Jacob Morganstern 47 Poland Naturalised B St London St George In The East Hebrew Teacher
Marie Morganstern 26 London Poplar London Bromley Shirt Machinist
Mirriam Morganstern 48 Poland Naturalised B St London St George In The East
Morris Morganstern 10 London St Georges London St George In The East
Rebecka Morganstern 20 Poland Naturalised B St London St George In The East Clerk at Fur Factory
Thos Morganstern 51 Holland Nat B Sub London Bromley Gas Stoker
Stepney comes under St George's, right?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Kieran Brakes
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 04:17 pm | |
| I've read elsewhere (on another message thread) that 'Morganstone' has been identified as being a Dutchman! |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 04:37 pm | |
Scott, Timsta et all, Stewart Evans and Nick Connell have offered some compelling evidence in their book, Tha Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper, to show that the name was possibly MORGESTERN. One of the press reports at the time of the Kelly inquest record Joseph Barnett stating that the man Morganstone worked at the Stepney Gas Works. A search of the 1881 census shows an Adrienus L. Morgestern, 33 years old, a gas stoker, and his 26 year old brother, Maria A. Morgestern, also a gas stoker living at 43 Fulham Road. Both men were born in Alphen, Priel, The Netherlands.
Wolf. |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 04:48 pm | |
Wolf:
Interesting. Fulham Road, Fulham? Seems a long way to travel to work. Perhaps they moved shortly thereafter.
Might the Adrienus Morgestern you cite be the same as the Thos Morganstern, age 51, birthplace Holland, Nat B Sub, London Bromley, Gas Stoker I found above?
Age might fit if his birthday was around census time, right?
And what the heck is a 'gas stoker' anyway?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Jim Jenkinson
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 07:30 pm | |
Hi Timsta,
A gas stoker was a labourer that worked in the Gasworks. Each town had one, it was a process plant for turning coal into town gas for use in street lighting, heating etc, in the days before natural gas was utilised. They were a landmark due to the large towers used to store the gas. They were "telescopic" to alter the tower's volume and therefore maintain pressure.
One of the stoker's duties was to remove the spent coal (coke) and cool it with water, ready for selling on to other industries.
Jim |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 07:33 pm | |
Jim:
Thanks for the stoker job description.
I actually grew up in the shadow of a gas tower (or 'gasometer' as they were called in my part of the world). It's still there, although I'm not sure it's actually in use anymore.
(BTW it wasn't a telescoping one; it was one with a big plunger inside to achieve the same goal.)
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Jim Jenkinson
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 07:40 pm | |
Timsta,
There's only two left in the UK, one in Fakenham and one in Biggar. They didn't need them anymore because of natural gas from the North Sea.
So kids nowadays can't call themselves the "Gasworks Gang".
Cheers
Jim |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 07:52 pm | |
Jim:
They've removed my childhood landmark? You b@stards!
Or do you mean there's only two telescoping ones? Or two operational ones?
Camley St is still there, surely.
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Jim Jenkinson
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 04:49 am | |
Timsta,
Only two complete gasworks. No idea how many gas towers left. Do you mean Camley St in Camden Town ? Oh, dear, I think you do. www.multimap.com/
After search click on aerial photograph.
Sorry
Jim  |
Author: Chris Jd
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 07:02 am | |
Hi all,
"Morgenstern" would be a 'proper' German name.
Christian |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 10:55 am | |
COLICOTT
I searched the census and only found two of even remotely appropriate age:
1) Frederick Colicott
Aged 38
Born Honeybourne, Glasgow
Living in Ashford, Middlesex (i.e. at time of census)
Railway Navvy (i.e. labourer)
2) Herbert Colicott
Aged 40
Born in Birmingham
Living in Warwickshire
Harness Maker Stitcher
Hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 10:58 am | |
Annie and Alice Crook
I searched for these in combination in the census. From the dates of birth I was looking for an Annie Crook aged 38 or 39 (in 1901) and and Alice Crook aged 15 or 16. The following was the only such combination i found:
ANNIE CROOK
Aged 38
Born: Preston, Lancs.
Living: Preston, Lancs
No profession given
ALICE CROOK
Aged 16
Born: Preston, Lancs
Living: Preston, Lancs
Cotton Weaver
Hope this is of interest
Chris scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:02 am | |
GEORGE LUSK
Found the following details in the census:
George Lusk
Aged 55
Born: Mile End
Living: Mile End
Builder
Also living in Mile End there were two more George Lusks
1) Aged 32 described as Builders general Clerk
2) Aged 16 described as Van Guard Railway
Presumably these are either older and younger sons of George Snr or (just!) son and grandson
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:07 am | |
CADOCHE
I searched the census under the above spelling and there were no entries, However there were 2 entries under the spelling CADOSCH
1) Fred Cadoche
Aged 17
Born: Bethnal Green
Living: Colchester, Essex
Postman
2) Herbert Cadoche
Aged 15
Born: Bethnal green
Living: Colchester, Essex
Office Boy tailoress Factory
Possible sons of the Albert Cadosch/Cadoche in the Chapman case
Chris scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:09 am | |
JOSEPH HYAM LEVY
It says in the A-Z regarding the above witness "he possible retired or died about 1892"
However, there is the following entry in the 1901 census:
JOSEPH LEVY
Aged 60
Born: Spitalfields
Living: Mile End
Journeyman Butcher
Hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:14 am | |
COHN/KOCH
Entry in the A-Z says:
COHN, DR (or Koch)
Recently alleged suspect. named by Inspector Keaton. Nothing more is presently known.
A search under these names looking for medical content showed the following:
1) JAQUES COHN
Aged 40 (i.e. 27 in 1888)
Born: Prussia (German subject)
Living: Hampstead, London
Physician and Surgeon
2) WILFRED KOCH
Aged 38
Born: Ceylon
Living: Penge, London
Doctor of Medicine
May be of some interest I hope
Chris scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:16 am | |
MICHAEL KIDNEY
The only remotely looking possibility is:
Michael Kidney
Aged 50
Born: Ireland
Living: Tredegar, Monmouthshire (Wales)
Labourer, Steel Works
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:18 am | |
GEORGE VALENTINE (Druitt's employer)
I found this entry:
George Valentine
Aged 59
Born: Bombay
Living: Lee, London
Retired Schoolmaster |
Author: David Radka
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 12:21 pm | |
I also grew up in the shadow of one of these coal gas storage contraptions, in the working class city of New Britain, Connecticut. It was a dark, ominous looking cylinder, about 3-4 stories tall and half a block wide. It had an exoskeleton of steel beams, which supported an inner bladder that expanded and contracted with coal gas volume. When full it looked massively huge, and blocked out the sun. It had blinking red lights on it, to keep aircraft from crashing into it. It was located more or less in back of Reggie Ronzello's shoe repair shop, corner of Stanley and Whiting.
David |
Author: Lisa Jane Turner
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 06:52 pm | |
| Incidentally, you mention Bromley Gasworks re:- Thos Morganstein, if it is the Bromley by Bow one I used to work there. The site was closed in 1996 and most of it demolished subsequently. However there is a Bromley in South London also. |
