|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 94
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 6:00 pm: | 
|
Hello parties,
What should we make of the letters sent to New York Police during another set of unsolved murders? And worse yet, to the grieving family of one of the victims.
These crimes occurred in 1915 and involved the slaying of one poor dear child in March and another in May. The killings were of a slashing and stabbing nature. There was also believed to have been at least one other unsuccessful attack. The murdered victims were respectively five-year-old Lenora Cohn and four-year-old Charles Murray.
A person claiming to be the killer signed some of his taunting correspondences "H.B. RICHMOND, Jack-the-Ripper". Although this individual hinted at the second murder before it happened, as with the original JTR letters, it was never firmly established that they were from the actual perpetrator.
Like the original, this murderer was neither captured nor identified. If the letters were genuine, it indicates that serial killers the world over were elevating Jack the Ripper to idol status.
Regards,
Stan |
Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 348
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
|
Stanley,
This is very intriguing. Please direct me to some sources (books, websites) where I can read more about this 1915 series of killings and letters. Thanks!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 9:58 pm: |
|
Hi Tom,
I wrote about the case in the June 2002 issue of America's Most Wanted News Magazine. My main source was Michael Newton's book "Still At Large". He repeated the account in "The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crime". It's also mentioned in "The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers" by the same author. If you google "HB Richmond Jack the Ripper", a serial killer site comes up that has an entry that pretty much duplicates the account from Newton's books. Be sure and put the search subject in quotes as I did above.
Stan |
Phil Hill
Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 500
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 9:40 am: |
|
1. There is no conclusive evidence that JtR wrote any letters (2 might be arguable but I doubt it).
2. Ergo, there is unlikely to be any immediate connection between HB Richmond and the UK JtR (whomever he was).
3. HB Richmond was a child killer. Jack killed adult women.
4. None of the JtR letters whether by the murderer or not were sent to victim's families - they went to news agencies and the chairman of the local vigilance committee etc.
5. Jack was famous, he got his name from a letter probably written by a journalist. Imitation is not surprising.
So what should we make of these letters? No connection; no relevance (except in the widest criminological sense); and no interest for me.
Personally I am always wary of subjects where all references are traceable back to a single original (secondary) source. Any mistakes by the original writer are perpetuated unchecked. If the original was wrong/a hoax/mis-interpreted the original sources or confused about anything, we do not know. Any bias remains unknown. Be careful.
Phil |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 10:48 am: |
|
Hi Phil,
Thanks for your answer. No one, including me, seriously suggests that this guy was "The" Ripper and we all know the litany on the initial JTR letters. That's why I didn't put this in the "Letters" Board. The point here is the widespread fame of the original and the possible idolizing of JTR by another serial killer.
Regarding your reference to the single source, as a rule, I would tend to agree but I've provided material for Mr. Newton and know for a fact that neither he nor his publisher put anything out until it's thoroughly checked up. After all, he's the guy who exposed the, now believed, fictitious Mumfre story from the New Orleans Axeman Case. That account had been repeated by dozens of crime writers for the past fifty years, including me, until one of his researchers revealed it's shortcomings.
Goodies,
Stan |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1445
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 1:02 pm: |
|
Hi Stanley
This is interesting but I would suggest to you that it really has nothing to do with the actual case of 1888, as you yourself acknowledge. However, I think it is interesting not so much for, as you put it, that the murderer or the hoaxer raising the original Ripper to "hero status" but more that it is a reflection of the way the media worldwide had built up the reputation of the unknown killer, the bogeyman called "Jack the Ripper," in reporting the original story of the Ripper and then continued to talk about it. Remember that later killers such as Cream, Deeming, and Chapman were also thought by some to have been the Ripper, so the story was rejuvenated with coverage of the trials of those murderers, as well as in lesser crimes, as I note below.
Specifically, in terms of the U.S. newspapers, the papers for years afterward labeled various murders around the United States "Ripper" killings, and openly talking of "Jack the Ripper" being abroad in the U.S. Also with the well-reported "Ripper letters" being published not only in England but worldwide, it is not surprising that copycats in the UK and abroad got on the bandwagon and wrote such letters. Most people today and then believe(d) Jack wrote letters, so the sending of letters in the later American series of murders you have been looking into does not appear prima facie to mean anything in terms of the actual Whitechapel murders of 1888.
I hope this helps, Stan. Again, you are right that the 1915 series that you cite shows the reputation of the original Ripper, but not quite for the reason that you stated.
Best regards
Chris George
(Message edited by ChrisG on May 10, 2005)
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 1:18 pm: |
|
Thanks Chris,
I agree that's all in the mix but I don't believe that rules anything I said out.
Bests,
Stan |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 4:33 pm: |
|
P.S.
I tend to think that none of the original JTR letters are genuine. If I was forced to bet on one, I'd go with "The Lusk" due to its accompanying "evidence".
Stan |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 636
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 8:20 pm: |
|
Hi Stan,
I said I would get back on the correct thread.
In 1915, where (if anyone knows) was that human abomination Albert Fish? His "heyday" would be the 1920s and 1930s, when he kidnapped, tortured (horrendously) young boys and girls, killed them, and ate them. He resided for that period in New Jersey. He was electrocuted in New York State (for the murder of Grace Budd - who appears to be his first victim) in 1936 or thereabouts. I wonder if he could have been "Richmond".
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 8:37 pm: |
|
Hi Jeff
You could be on to something there. The little girl had some gray hair in one hand. I wonder, did Fish had gray hair in 1915? It's possible.
Have you read Albert Fish's "Cookbook"? It makes me wish I could have been there to pull the lever on the guy. The only problem is I think he'd enjoy it.
Stan |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 638
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 9:21 pm: |
|
Hi Stan,
No, I haven't read his cookbook. Just reading about this creep gives me the chills (I find nothing human about him). Note his needles in the groin business (God, that's hideous).
Actually, I fear you are right - that S.O.B. would have enjoyed it!
By the way, if you saw the original BLAIR WITCH PROJECT, the background about the young kids who vanished in the area in the 1930s seems based on Fish.
Jeff |
Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 350
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 9:43 pm: |
|
Stan,
Thanks for the info. I, for one, knew you were not suggesting a connection to the real Ripper, hence putting it on the 'Shades of Whitechapel' thread. But it would make interesting reading nonetheless.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 104
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:47 pm: |
|
Tom-No problem. Always glad to help.
Jeff-Yes, I saw "Blair Witch Project" although I didn't care for it much. I had the same feeling that it was inspired by Fish and kept expecting him to pop up in the end but no such luck.
Stan |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
