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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Barnett, Joseph » Joseph Barnett number one suspect?. » Archive through November 27, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn

Post Number: 427
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Shannon.
I believe she brought home streetwalkers, because Joe Suggested she did, for she was scared of being alone at nights, he then could relay to the police after her death, he only left her because of prostitutes staying there. after all he needed a good excuse to leave her on the 30th october.
Richard.
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Richard,

Do you presume everything Joe ever said was made up? What makes you think that it was his idea for her to take in other prostitutes?
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 4:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, just wanted to add to my last post. Richard, if you think it was his idea so that he could tell the police are you saying that her had been planning on killing her for ages? I don't believe this to be the case.
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn

Post Number: 430
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sarah,
That is exactly right, I believe, that when it became obvious to him that he could not change her ways dispite his horrendous attempts, he decided that as she was responsible[ at least in his mind] that she would would be the end of it.
Richard.
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 5:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Richard,

I don't think that Joe was that that intelligent that he knew he would need an excuse to leave her. I also don't think he planned to kill her. He loved her deeply and I think that he would have tried and tried to stop her, but that if he was the one who killed her then it was on the spur of the moment during an argument. As I've said in another thread, most murders between lovers occur during an argument. Very few people go about planning to kill their lover, most would just leave them but Joe kept trying to get her back. It doesn't make sense that he would plan to kill her.
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 409
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guy,

Cat amongst the pidgeons time.....

.....what are the chances of Joe actually obtaining the services of trug-moldie ?

Monty
:-)
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

I could pretend that I'm really clever here but I'll opt for being my usual self and say eh?

Sarah
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 412
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sarah,

Ok, just for you...

...what are the chances of Joe picking up a prostitute?

I mean, thats what he was doing when he met Mary J right ?

But wait...he hates them !

Monty
:-)
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 109
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

Sorry, am a bit dumb.

I said on another thread that I don't think he hated prostitutes at first. He got together with Mary and she stopped working as he had enough money to support them both. When he lost his job she had to go back to working the streets. He was used to having her to himself but now she was sharing herself with anyone who'd pay for it. I think that is where his hatred began and not his hated for prostitutes but maybe of the situation.

Either that or he wasn't looking for a prostitute that night but I can't decide what else he would have been doing that night to meet her.

Sarah
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Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne

Post Number: 947
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

G'day,

We can never know what they talked about when they first met. When he found Mary Kelly, he immediately tried to change her ways. I think that he picked up Mary, because she was a young, attractive, female, that he thought he could pull away from prostitution. Not because he wanted the services of a prostitute. The pair agreed to met the next day!

LEANNE
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Peter Sipka
Police Constable
Username: Peter

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Leanne,
How do we know that he didn't want her for what she can give to him sexually? You did mention she was young and attractive. Sounds like the perfect woman. He got mad at her for going on the streets like any person would. It's logical.

-Peter-
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 112
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 4:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter,

Well, whether he wanted her services as a prostitute or not, I think sex was on his mind that night because he was a man. He may have disagreed with prostitutes but only because these women were selling themselves, he must have still agreed with sex and upon seeing a young attractive girl his mind must have been on the subject.

Sarah
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 416
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter, LEANNE,

Peter,

You beat me to it....apart from a possibility that she pursued him.

LEANNE,

Meeting the next day still could have been a business exchange....and Im not talking sex here.

Monty
:-)
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 4:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

I don't think she would she pursued him. He looked like everyone else in whitechapel so why would she? I think that after talking to him she maybe realised that if she was with him then she wouldn't have to sell herself anymore.

Sarah
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 419
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 5:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sarah,

Why not ?

Do you know what Joe looked like...was like ?

Are you the type that goes for looks alone ?

Monty
:-)
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 117
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 5:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

Everyone goes on looks as the first thing. It's human nature. I would never ever go into a relationship with someone though purely on looks, my most important factor is sense of humor. Ok, maybe Joe was good looking, I was under the impression that he wasn't, especially if that drawing of him is anything to go by. It is human nature to go on looks first, no-one would go and hit on someone they didn't like the look of now would they? Maybe after a conversation with that person though they would start to feel a little differently.

Sarah
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 118
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 5:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

Also, she wasn't looking for a relationship, she was looking for a client. If she had pursued him, it would have purely for that reason.

Sarah
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 420
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sarah,

Everyone goes on looks as the first thing. It's human nature

Prostitutes go for something a little more profitable.

Monty
:-)

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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 121
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

Are you suggesting Mary was psychic and just happened to know that Joe had a bit more money than most people around there just by looking at him?

Sarah
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 122
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

Are you suggesting Mary was psychic and just happened to know that Joe had a bit more money than most people around there just by looking at him?

Sarah
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Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty

Post Number: 421
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sarah,

Im so good you mailed me twice !!

Where did Joe and Mary meet ? It would be obvious if someone was splashing out in there.

Monty
:-)
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 124
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty,

Hmm, don't know how that happened. Joe met Mary on Commercial Road. What do you mean by "It would be obvious if someone was splashing out in there"?

Sarah
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn

Post Number: 433
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,
What is forgotten here, is when Barnett met Kelly,she was proberly of a respectable appearence,an attractive twenty three year old, even in middle -late 88, she was described as a very clean and respectable person, who one would not associate with that way of life.
At there first meeting, Barnett may have been unaware of her past life, and when she told him of her past lifestyle, she told him in a way, that he felt compassion towards her.
We should also remember, that she did not return to prostitution, until at least july 88, so she lived with Barnett about fifteen months, during which time she refrained from her old habits.
Richard.
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Sarah Long
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sarah

Post Number: 130
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Richard,

I agree that Joe may not have known Mary was a prostitute but I have to ask what Joe would have thought that she was doing out on the streets and probably in the company of other prostitutes who looked the part.

Sarah
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Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne

Post Number: 950
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 5:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

G'day,

Mary Kelly was a young attractive girl who was dragged into the profession. Many other prostitutes were older than her, and their desperate situation would have shown in their appearance.

Of course Mary would have told him a sad story of her desperation and her being forced to sell herself! Joe would have thought: "I can fix that!"

HEY RICH: George Hutchinson said he had known Mary Kelly for three years. If he had been a regular customer of hers, that would mean that she was prostituting herself behind Joes back!

LEANNE

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