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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Grainger, William Grant « Previous Next »

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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 93
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Near contemporaneous suspect, sentenced in 1895 for the attack on a woman in the East End. Variously described as a soldier, ships fireman, seaman and having trained briefly as a doctor.

Believed by Sugden and Paul Begg to have been the man identified by Joseph Lawende in 1895 as the man he saw with Kate Eddowes prior to her death. Lived in the East End but his presence could never be positively ascertained duringh the period of the ripper murders.

Best
Gary
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Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert

Post Number: 418
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Gary

Seven years is a long time to remember a face. It would be interesting to know when the police first started having witnesses being present while artists drew a suspect's face, the witness correcting the artist in order to get a closer likeness.

Also,I wonder whether Lawende or Schwartz were ever shown a photo of Druitt.

Robert
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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 305
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Gary
You asked for any records I had found on Grainger. I eventually traced him in the 1901 census where he is listed under the name of William Grant which is why he was a bit elusive. He is entered as a convict in Parkhurst Prison on the Isle of Wight and his occupation is given as fireman. The A-Z gives his date of birth as circa 1858 - if the census age is correct he was born in 1860.
The full entry is:
William Grant Grainger 1901 census

Name: WILLIAM GRANT
Status: Single
Age: 41
Relation to Head of Family: Convict
Where Born: Ireland, Cork
Profession: Fireman
Institution name: Parkhurst Prison
Address: Parkhurst, Carisbrooke

Attached is a copy of the entry:
grainger
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 108
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert

Seven years is a long time to remember a face that was turned away from you talking to somone else at the time. Of course he could have turned partiallly around to see that his victim had noticed someone watching them.

If the police were astute they would have shown both men a picture of Druitt. After all he seems to have posed for a few dozen pictures.

Hi Chris

Excellent work. I should have mentioned that Grainger went by Grant. It is becoming clear that Grainger could not stay out of trouble or the various instututions of the day.

Best Regards
Gary
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Phil A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If anybody is interested I found a description of him off a website. I don't know if I could post it and name the source or not, so if somebody could tell me, that would help.
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 285
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Phil

If you are unsure about your ability to post from another site, I believe it is acceptable if you quote the source, however this is really a question for Stephen.

If you are reluctant you can e-mail me by clicking on my name. This is a favorite suspect of mine.

Sorry to be so long in responding as I have been tied up recently.

All The Best
Gary
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 663
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Found this account (article dated 12 Feb 1895) about Grainger (under the name of Grant). Hope it's of interest
Chris

grant
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling

Post Number: 155
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris,

This is the first time I have heard of a pre-1888
homicide on the list of probably/possible Ripper
murders. Has anyone ever mentioned that murder on Christmas Week, 1887, near Osborne and Wentworth
Streets?

Best wishes,

Jeff
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Donald Souden
Police Constable
Username: Supe

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jeff,
The "Fairy Fay" article on the Casebook victims' section refers to several possible murders near Osborne and Wentworth streets during Christmas week.
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 665
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Jeff and Donald
The Christmas week 1887 is almost certainly a reference to the allegedly mythical Fairy Fay. I have seen a few articles which place this 1887 murder in the Osborne/Wentworth street area. In my opinion this is almost certainly a confusion with the Emma Smith murder of April 1888.
Regards
Chris
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Donald Souden
Police Constable
Username: Supe

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris,
Agreed. I was not supporting this bit of Apochrypha, but just directing Jeff to where there had been previous mention.
Don.
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 350
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi All

I tend to agree with Chris, with respect to his comments abouts Fairy Fay and as Donald indicates it is apocryhphal in the extreme.

The only murder I can place in 1887 which was undoubtedly part of a pattern of serial killings was The Rainham Mystery and that murder discovery was made in May of 1887.

All The Best
Gary
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 417
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris Scott

I was curious to know if you had a date of death for Grant-Grainger. I have been researching him and come across a fair bit of information. However, his date of death has eluded me.

All The Best
Gary

(Thanks to Trevor Weatherhead)
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2894
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This report, headlined "Is it Jack the Ripper?" appeared in the "Hawaiian Gazette" Mar 8th 1895.

hg

Robert
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Peter Sipka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Peter

Post Number: 82
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting find Robert. I wonder if there is anything else on this Grant prisoner who is possibly Grainger.

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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2897
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Peter

Haven't found anything else yet, but according to the "Democrat Standard", Ohio, Feb 1st 1895. the police believed Jack was long gone!



ds

Robert
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Peter Sipka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Peter

Post Number: 84
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Robert,

Good article you pointed out. Interesting how the second article came before the Spitafields stabbing where the police say they believe the Ripper was dead, while in the first, the police seem to be claiming they have clues that this may be the Ripper. Perhaps they didn't want to stir any chaos, or, they really felt the Ripper was dead. Crazy.

Take care
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 657
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sir Robert and Peter

Interesting articles you've come up with. I have often wondered if the police stated the killer was 'several years in his grave' in order to avoid looking as though they had bungled the investigation. (which they may well have done)

William Grant Grainger, at least the one born in Cork Ireland who was also involved in the 1895 knifing, was in and out of the Cork County workhouse in 1888. I have tried and tried to get the archivist there to check on the dates in and out for 1888. All to no avail.

Is this just the laziness of a civil servant or the greatest cover up in history. (I guess it's just laziness.)

All The Best
Gary
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 2907
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Gary

You're a bit far away from Ireland. Maybe if you emailed Alan Sharp?

Robert
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 658
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert

I see your point. I can rant and rave all I want but it won't help me from this side of the pond. Perhaps Alan has some pull in Ireland.

All The Best
Gary
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Jason S. Grainger
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 6:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

None of my relatives would EVER hack up women. We just shoot 'em. William was a kind old soul...

yessir.
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw

Post Number: 667
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Jason

How are you connected to William?

Best Regards
Gary

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