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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Cutbush, Thomas » Renwick Williams « Previous Next »

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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 2522
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 1:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Old Bailey. December 8th etc, the trials of Renwick Williams.

This very well educated gentlemen liked to roam the streets around St James stabbing women in the lower regions with an unknown sharp instrument.
The crimes are astonishingly similar to those of Thomas Cutbush, but his act in court is very much more together.

If anyone would like to read the lengthy transcripts I'll post them on as e-mail.
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Julie
Detective Sergeant
Username: Judyj

Post Number: 141
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 3:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AP
I would be very interested in receiving these transcripts.
Thank you

Julie
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Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder

Post Number: 897
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 6:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rhynwick Williams (the man convicted of attacking a number of women in London in the late 18th century on his second trial, both of which featured some testimony that now would be considered rather unorthodox) is an old favorite.

Jan Bondeson has a full length book about the case called The London Monster that's well worth tracking down. He also wrote an article for the October 2004 issue of Ripper Notes called "Serial Sadistic Stabbers: Cutbush, The Monster and Jack the Snipper" which focuses on Williams and other alleged picquer fetishists who attacked people on the streets to wound, not kill (if you have his book already the article is mostly a reworking of some of that).

About a year back (when I was reading Bondeson's book) I tracked down a court case and a couple of old publications about the case (one by a man who basically led the vigilance committee-style efforts to catch the Monster, the other by Williams' lawyer, Theophilus Swift, defending him from the charges). At some point I'll stitch them together as PDFs and distribute them. They came from the same online source AP probably used, so AP could probably get them too.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile    Email    Dissertations    Website
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jan bondeson
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 2:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There were quite a few contemporary books about the Monster case. The proceedings from both trials were published and are available online. Angerstein the vigilante-leader's book was published in two editions, both are in US libraries but neither can be found in any UK library. The Swift book is also very rare, but there is a copy in Philadelphia. My book on the Monster will be out in a new UK paperback edition any day now.

Best wishes Jan Bondeson
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 3028
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 5:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From his portrait the old 'Monster of London' doesn't look that much of a monster. In fact he looks like a right gent!
The following - with Robert's blessing - is taken from 'The Old Bailey & Newgate' 1902, New York by John Ashton.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 5489
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 8:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is the London Monster.



Robert
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3537
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Surly looking brute !!!!! Mozart practising a sneer I'd say!!!!!

I suppose the ....'What shall we do tonight lads???'..'Go out and stab a few floosies up the bum with a sharp instrument Sir!'

'OK fair enough!!!'

Robert.....Where's that image from?

Suzi
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3538
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Renwick (NRT)Williams .....[no relation to] Tony is he??????

Suzi
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3539
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have a look at this!!


http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/html_sessions/T17900708.html

Suzi
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3540
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RHYNWICK could be seen as being of Welsh extraction I .........suppose!

Suzi
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3541
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Super printable poster!

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1790s/179007080001.html

Suzi
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 5495
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 2:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More of the Monster.

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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3551
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 2:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blimey!!!!Robert!!!!!The 'Acme Defensive Muff' must have saved her!!!!!!!

Suzi :-)
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Julie
Inspector
Username: Judyj

Post Number: 272
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 5:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suzi

Great find Suzi. However the date is almost 100 yrs previous to the Jack murders.

Very interesting though

regards
Julie
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 3563
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 1:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Julie-

Wasn't my find! was AP'S!!!! Yes I know it's 100 years pre JTR.... BUT it's the M.O. were looking at here......isn't it!

Cheers

Suzi
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Julie
Inspector
Username: Judyj

Post Number: 274
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suzi

RIght on Suzi, it was still a good find.

best regards
Julie
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jason_connachan
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 3:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jees, not another derriere fiend. Old London seems to have been awash with men stabbing women's bottoms.

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