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Message |
    
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 334
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 6:06 pm: | 
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OK, let's see if I got this right:
J.K. Stephen was the cousin of Virginia Wolf? Is that first cousin? So Virginia's father Leslie Stephen would be J.K.'s uncle? Or was that second cousins or something which would throw everything off? I don't know how that works. (Watch me be really confused and find out they weren't even cousins.)
And J.K.'s father was the judge for both the Israel Lipski and Florence Maybrick cases? The hanging judge guy who gave such strict instructions to the juries that he might as well have condemned them both to death without a jury even showing up?
Any one else I should know about swinging from his family tree?
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 489
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 6:22 pm: |
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Hi, Dan
Sir Leslie Stephen and Sir James Fitzjames Stephen were brothers, so J.K. Stephen and Virginia Woolf were first cousins. Sir Leslie was also a writer and literary critic who at one time was married to one of William Thackeray's daughters.
Hope that helps,
Dave |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 490
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 6:55 pm: |
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Hi, Dan
I should also add that J.K. Stephen had one other famous cousin, Vanessa Bell, who was a painter and the sister of Virginia Woolf. I don't know much about Vanessa; I guess she's overshadowed by her sister; Vanessa illustrated some of the first editions of Woolf's books.
Of course, J.K. died a long time before either of his cousins became famous, when both were still children. I'm sure both would have been familiar with his work as they grew up.
Dave
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 335
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 7:01 pm: |
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Hi Dave,
Yeah, that's what I was looking for, thanks. I was typing "was the uncle of..." and thought I should doublecheck.
It must have been quite an influential family...
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 491
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 7:17 pm: |
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Dan,
It's been a long time since I've read it, but Vanessa Bell's son Quentin wrote a very good biography of Virginia Woolf which contains some good background on the Stephen family. I know Sir Leslie was a big deal with the Victorian literary crowd. I'm kind of surprised he's not mentioned in obituaries of James Kenneth.
I'm assuming James Fitzjames Stephen and Justice Stephen are one in the same, but I don't know for sure  I also seem to remember that the father of Sir James and Sir Leslie was also a notable figure, but I don't remember who or what for.
Dave |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1200
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 6:26 pm: |
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What is quite interesting about Virginia Woolf is that she seems to have been mentally unstable.In fact that whole Bloomsbury set stuff irritates me no end.They set themselves up as the great snobs of literature and art,acting very "bohemian" as they saw it and drawing people into their elite little cabal who often seem to have been fairly vulnerable such as Dora Carrington the artist who
like Woolf committed suicide soon after.Also I often wonder if much of Woolf"s famed "writing style"
was just a poor imitation of James Joyce who I think may have a much more longlasting impact as a great writer.
I think they liked to pose a lot[often without their clothes on]and by and large do a lot of people"s heads in-if not worse.
Anyway the point I started to make and got sidetracked by is that she and cousin Stephen both seemed to have been a bit unstable,to say the least, yet Stephen"s instability was put down to a riding accident[or something like that].Even his father seems to have been out to lunch quite a bit-Maybrick or no Maybrick trial.
Natalie |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 497
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 7:51 pm: |
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Don't forget they were sleeping with each other, too. And I don't blame them--if I'd grown up Victorian, I'd cut loose myself. I wish we had more of that spirit these days. I think you're right about the snobbery, but weren't most people of that time and class? The BBC has some Woolf readings in their archives--I haven't heard any yet, but I understand she spoke with a very posh accent. I don't know if you saw The Hours--Nicole Kidman thought Wolf's accent was too archaic for a modern audience to take seriously; she thought they'd laugh at it so she went with something else. I guess you can say the same for the snobbery (although from time to time I see that a bit of that survives around here). Yet when Woolf was alive, the snobbery wasn't archaic, it was just the way life was. So I'm not sure we should condemn her anymore than we should condemn a Whitechapel prostitute for selling her body. Of course, I wouldn't want to hang out with a snob today.
Woolf was definitely unstable, though. But I saw an interview with Vita Sackville-West's son, and he thought she killed herself during a moment of lucidity and in fact applauded her bravery to choose drowning as a way of dying. "She was a strong swimmer!"
Quentin Bell tells a story of the young Virginia Stephen and friends dressing themselves up like ambassadors from Abyssinia and talking their way into a tour of a British dreadnought. I think there was a diplomatic stink about that. There's a photograph of them all dressed up in his book.
Interesting comparison you draw between Woolf and Joyce--I'm not as familiar with Joyce as I should be.
Dave
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 481
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 12:06 am: |
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Hi David,
The incident with Virginia Woolf and the "Dreadnought Hoax" occurred in 1910. She and a party of friends sent a message to the Foreign Office that the Emperor of Abyssinia and his party were coming to England, and wished to see the new British warship, H.M.S. Dreadnought. They arrived at a train station dressed in "exotic", quasi-middle eastern costumes (except one dressed as their German interpreter), and were shepherded aboard the great vessel. The entire tour lasted a couple of hours, and the "Emperor" and his party spoke "Ethiopian" before their British hosts (they were speaking Latin with misplaced syllabic emphasis). The visit went off with only one hitch - not from the visitors. As the official Royal Naval barge was headed to the Dreadnought, a motorboat driven by a young naval officer speeded in front of it. This was a breach of naval ettiquette that lead to a very stern dressing down of the naval officer. It was the young Lord Louis Mountbatten.
When the truth about the visitors did come out there was a considerable amount of discussion in the House of Commons about the failure of the Foreign Office and the Admiralty to prevent the hoax from getting anywhere.
Jeff |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1201
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 5:38 pm: |
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Thanks David and Jeff for these interesting cameos of some of their highjinks.I must go and see the film.I didnt because I conviced myself that I"d be bored out of my mind with it"[even though I thought it had a good cast and so on].
Best Natalie |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 498
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 5:55 pm: |
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Hi, Natalie
I loved The Hours, but a lot of my friends found it incredibly depressing (with reason). Not for everybody, but if you do rent the DVD the interview with V. Sackville-West's son is there.
Jeff, thanks very much for that account of the Dreadnought Hoax. If you and Natalie are interested, see the link for the photograph I mentioned earlier. The resolution is a little low so it's hard to see much detail with Virginia Woolf's makeup.
Cheers,
Dave |
Antonio Ruiz Vega
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 6:49 am: |
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A possible clue: The relation between the Sackville-Wests & the Stephens. A "Sackville-West" is the author of "A flame from sunlight", a interesant biography of Thomas De Quincey, famous author of "Murder as one of the fine arts", the probably inspiration for the Whitechapel Murders (Quincey´s main inspiration was The Ratcliffe Highway Murder´s, in the East End too, but at 1811). |
Uriah Hexam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 9:19 pm: |
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I realise this thread is past its freshness date, but I have this wonderful photograph of J. K. Stephen that I wished to share. It comes from the photo album of Leslie Stephen, the father of Virginia Woolf and Vanessa Bell.
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2154
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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Thank you for letting us see this,Uriah.
A fine looking man it would seem! |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2155
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
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Something just crossed my mind-was he a Cambridge Blue or is that a cricket jumper he"s wearing? |
carol hansen
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 2:22 am: |
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Dear Uriah Hexam,
Thank you very much for posting the profiled photograph of J, K, Stephen; it was very good of you and I wonder if others may have access to the album of Sir Leslie Stephen; this photograph bears a striking resemblance to Virginia Woolf, his first cousin.
Thanks again.
Carol |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 131
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 2:32 pm: |
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hello all,
The photo displayed of J.K. Stephen is when he played the part of Ajax in I believe the play 'Ajax and Achilles' staged in Cambridge in the mid 1880's.
Incidentally many at the time thought JK 'stole' the show.
A&S |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4639
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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Andy, didn't Ajax go mad?
Robert |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 132
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 2:36 pm: |
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Hello Robert,
Yes, but no madder than all of us. JKS was a great wit by all accounts. And if he is sitting 'up there' watching us lot, I bet he is splitting his sides, but, hopefully not with a surgical knife!
A&S |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 739
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 8:11 pm: |
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Hi all,
In looking at James Kenneth's photograph, his resemblance to his father Mr. Justice Sir James Fitzjames Stephen comes out, as both had the same
jaw, eyes and forehead.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Uriah Hexam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 3:21 pm: |
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One thing I found interesting about this photograph is the poosible injury/deformity visible in Stephen's ear. I wonder if this is a congenital thing or possible some scarring from his exploits playing the wall game at Eton. Any thoughts? |
