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J. Whyman
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 5:33 pm: |       |
I have to confess that I am a long time lurker on these boards. I find Montague Druitt's case fasinating, not because I believe him to be the ripper (I personally do not) but because of the mystery surrounding his life and death. I have being doing a bit of research into the subject and I thought I'd post what I've managed to find on Mr J.T. Homer whom you may recall was listed as attending Montague's funeral in the Hampshire Advertiser article of 12 Jan 1889.
1881 Census: Hemsworth Farm, Shapwick, Dorset
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John T. HORNER OR HOMER Head M Male 45 Winterborne St Martin, Dorset, England Farmer 1500 Acres Employing 50 Men ? Boys
Elizabeth HORNER OR HOMER Wife M Female 50 Hemsworth, Dorset, England
Mary S. HORNER OR HOMER Daur U Female 14 Hemsworth, Dorset, England
Anna D. HORNER OR HOMER Daur Female 13 Hemsworth, Dorset, England
Alice L. HORNER OR HOMER Daur Female 10 Hemsworth, Dorset, England
George J.W. HORNER OR HOMER Son Male 8 Hemsworth, Dorset, England
Katharine M. HORNER OR HOMER Daur Female 5 Hemsworth, Dorset, England
Amelia CHISMAN OR CHESMAN Other U Female 55 Athelhampton, Dorset, England Lady Help
William H.G. HARRIS Boarder U Male 19 Yealmton, Devon, England Agricultural Student
Annie STUART Other U Female 27 Argyll, Scotland Governess
Mary C. BARNES Servt U Female 19 Morden, Dorset, England Servt Domestic
Harriett PEARCY Servt U Female 16 Puddletown, Dorset, England Servt Domestic
John Thomas Homer born 25 Feb, christened 4 Apr 1836, Saint Nicholas Street Independant, Weymouth, Dorset. Parents John Green Homer and Elizabeth Wood.
John Thomas Homer is also listed in the Portland Year Book 1905 as an Alderman (retiring 1907) of Hemsworth, Witchampton, Dorset. (see http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Portland/PYB/County.html)
However, in the 1901 Census for Shapwick, Dorset (see http://www.dorset-opc.com/1841Shapwick.htm) the occupants of Hemsworth Farm are listed as follows:
Hemsworth Farm
John HARVEY 52 Farmer
Sarah HARVEY 46
Elizabeth GRAHAM 44
Martha YOUNG 24
Fanny CARTER 21
Henry BALL 26
I believe that in the 1881 Census Montague's mother Ann Harvey was listed as being born at Shapwick, Dorset? Also, from the records I have found of the marriage of Montague's parents Ann Harvey and William Druitt's marriage, Ann's father is listed as one John Harvey and their marriage is listed as being witnessed by Elizabeth Harvey and John Harvey. Could there be possiably be a family connection between the Harvey's and the Homer's?
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J. Whyman
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 7:09 pm: | |
In the words of one Sir Melville Macnaghten I think this proves "my conjections to be correct":
1851 Census: Hemsworth Farm, Shapwck, Dorset
John HARVEY Head M 62 Farmer 1600 Acres born
Witchampton, Dorset
Sarah HARVEY wife M 59 born Witchampton, Dorset
Ann HARVEY dau U 21 born Shapwick, Dorset
Eliz HARVEY dau U 20 born Shapwick, Dorset
Mary TUBBS serv U 29 born Horton, Dorset
Eliz GRAHAM s/Law M 36 born Witchampton, Dorset
Ann DOLLENS serv U 31 born Long Bredy, Dorset
Henry BALL serv M 40 born Poole, Dorset |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2664
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 5:12 am: | |
Interesting, J. Whyman. I found this item in "The Times" for Feb 8th 1889. I wonder if it's our J.T. Homer?
Robert |
J. Whyman
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 5:38 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
I've seen that particular article myself and it probably is our J.T. Homer. It's also interesting to note that several of the other council members, including Lord Wimborne himself of course were present at the ball held on the 20 December 1888 such as Lord Eustace Cecil and C.J. Parke. Also the Mr. F. Weld is probably Frederick Aloysius Weld Montague's brother Edward's father in law. I myself also found some references to J.T. Homer in the Times, mainly concerning his prize winning pigs at Smithfield:
The Times, Thursday, Dec 9, 1875
"Moderate excellence throughout, with a sprinkling of superb pens, appears in the tolerably well filled classes of pigs. The £20 cup for white breed pigs is won by Mr. J.T. Homer’s Dorsets in the class not exceeding nine months old; these are marvellously fine, but almost delicate."
The Times, Thursday, Dec 12, 1878
"Pigs comprise 63 entries, against 52 last year; and on the whole have not been of a higher general merit on former occasions. For pigs of a white breed…Mr. John T Homer a first prize…"
The Times, Thursday, Dec 8 1881
"For large breed pigs, Mr. J.T. Homer wins the first prize in the middle class and the breed cup."
As the contents of my previous posts proves, I think that John Thomas Homer most likely being Montague's uncle by marriage to his Aunt Elizabeth Harvey probably explains his presence at the funeral.
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 257
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 7:52 pm: | |
Hello J Whyman,
I believe you have presented clear evidence identifying J.T.Homer, the Montague Druitt funeral attendee.
Well done! And congratulations.
Like you, I am not sure on what basis the unlikely M J Druitt has been included by senior police as a major Ripper suspect, but he too fascinates me.
Perhaps because the police at the time were concentrating on looking for a deranged foreigner, and then changed their minds to look for - horror of horrors- one of their own!
But the thing which really makes we want to know more about this Dorset-born London barrister and school teacher, is the fact not ONE word of evidence implicating Druitt:not witness statement nor anonymous letter, remains in police files today for armchair amateurs to come to grips with.Why? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2670
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 7:26 am: | |
Hi
I think this is the Homer family in the 71, 91 and 1901 censuses respectively :
Robert |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 258
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 8:18 am: | |
Greetings All,
I wonder if any Homer descendants still survive in the wilds of Dorsetshire?
And I wonder do they have any marvellously improbable yarns about that respectable friend of the family, Jack The Ripper? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2677
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 2:17 pm: | |
Hi all
In the 1871 census for the Homer family there is a John L Homer aged 5. This person does not appear with the family on subsequent census records.
A few weeks ago on another thread Chris Scott posted details of a John L Homer, age 15, born Wimborne, listed at Cheltenham College, Gloucs, for the 1881 census.
In the 1891 census there is a John Leonard Homer, Lieutenant Royal Naval Artillery, age 25, born Wimborne, at Eastney Barracks, Portsea, Hampshire.
If this is Monty's cousin, then my mind goes back to Chris George's musings on the fact that Monty was found floating off Thorneycroft's torpedo works.
Very tenuous, I know, but maybe something to stir into the pot.
Incidentally, the headmaster of Cheltenham College was a barrister. I wonder if it was he who inspired Monty to combine law work with teaching.
Robert |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 208
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 2:53 pm: | |
Hi John Ruffels
A quick check of the current Bournemouth telephone directory shows that their are 31 people recorded with the surname Homer. In the neighbouring Mid Dorset directory there are 6 people recorded.
Alas I do not have the time at present to write to them, but if you want to, I will be happy to furnish a list of these names.
Best Regards
John Savage |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2678
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 3:59 pm: | |
Looking again at John L Homer in 1891, I think it may be Royal Marines rather than Royal Navy.
Robert |
J. Whyman
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:43 am: | |
John,
Thank You. However the thing is that such information must have at one time existed. I believe Sir Melville himself admitted that he had destroyed the relevant information, supposedly to protect the family from further grief- I know that a couple of Monty's uncles were prominant freemasons but did the Druitt family really have that much influence? Also there seems to have been more than one theory about the identity of the killer: the deranged foreigner versus the manic upper class toff. In this vein of thought I found an interview with the then Mayor of London, Polydore De Keyser in the Pall Mall Gazette of 9 October 1888 which I think was posted on the Casebook a little while ago by Chris Scott especially interesting:
THE MANIAC THEORY
The theories propounded on the sunject of the character and motive of the murderer made Mr. De Keyser shrug his shoulders. He does not believe either in the enraged moralist theory, or the coroner's theory, or the scientific Socialist theory. In his opinion the murderer is simply a maniac; a kind of human mad dog - a proper subject for M. Pasteur - a man whose whole physical and intellectual being is so set on the single object of his monomania that he has been able to evade all the professional and amateur detectives.
WHEN AND HOW THE MURDERER WILL BE FOUND
"Will he finally be caught?" asked the interviewer. "Yes," replied the Lord Mayor, "he will be caught when he commits his next crime." A whole army of bloodhounds (metaphorical and literal) will be on his track the moment he draws blood again. If he does not begin again, it is a corpse - the corpse of a suicide - that will ultimately be found. With a whole community against him, he cannot long escape.
Robert,
All I can say: wow. Where did you find them?
J.
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Jon Smyth
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jon
Post Number: 109
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 10:06 am: | |
Has anyone ruled out a potential family connection between Maria Harvey, of Dorset St. and the Harvey's of Shapwick, Dorset?.
I certainly would not list Druitt as a Ripper suspect, but like J. Whyman, I have been facinated by certain aspects of his life & death.
If there is a family connection between Druitt & Dorset St. then it may cast a new light on some matters.
I think it's best to rule it out, if possible, before speculation sets in.
Regards, Jon |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 261
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 9:28 pm: | |
Thanks John Savage,
For the offer of the list of "Homers" in the current Bournemouth Telephone Directory, but I do not think I will take up your offer for me to write to each and every one. Thanks all the same.
You have probably noticed, the Montague Druitt threads have gone ahead in leaps and bounds with garnering new details of people who mixed in Montague's millieux .This means we are gradually developing a better picture of the types of people he mixed with, socially and professionally.
I believe we need a little bit more information on these groups before we approach the Homers.
My previous dealings with distant Druitt family members showed them to be reticent, understandably cautious and (one at least) found
Donald McCormick's "The Identity of Jack The Ripper" the obvious solution!
Jon Smyth
There is a published genealogy book of the illustrious MAYO/ELTON clan,( which includes the Druitt families) by ,I think, the Reverend C.H. Druitt, the title of which presently escapes me.A quick net search of large library catalogues should turn it up. The author was scrupulous in his assembly of facts, and I'm sure if Maria Harvey of Dorset Street, or the Druitt family of Mile End are interlinked, he will have recorded them.
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 414
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hi everyone,
In the item on this thread from THE TIMES of Feb. 8th, 1889 of the meeting of the Provisional Counsel of Dorchester, I noticed that there is a name of one "Henry Duke, jun." as a member. This may be Henry Duke, the successful British barrister, and (possibly) the "H.E.Duke" who attended the banquet that Monty Druitt attended for Lord Coleridge, which is on an adjacent thread about Druitt. That Duke is listed after Monty on the list at the banquet.
Jeff |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 348
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 10:21 pm: | |
Hello, Jeffrey
If you're interested, one Henry Edward Duke was called to the bar at the same time as Montague Druitt (see Times 30 April, 1885; Duke is the last name listed). |
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