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tired_cos_of_jack_the_ripper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 5:18 pm: |       |
I am currently doing a GCSE jack the ripper project, and i was writing about possible vitims and i come up with these dates
6th August 1888 - martha tabram was murdered
31st august 1888- polly nichols murdered
7th september 1888- Annie chapman murdered
30th september 1888- Double murder
This is rele strange. i count martha tabram as a victim because of the link. it goes 6,7th then 31,30th |
Scott Medine
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sem
Post Number: 63
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 8:07 am: | |
Dear Tired,
E-mail me at s_medine@hotmail.com and I can explain the dating sequence as well supply forensic data on the Tabram murder and her link to the others.
Peace,
Scott |
tired_cos_of_jack_the_ripper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 8:52 am: | |
I have e-mailed u, does any body else think marths tabram was a ripper murder? |
Daniel R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 9:32 am: | |
Hey tired what about Mary Kelly?
she was the next victim, and on the 8th.
Dan |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 124
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 1:42 pm: | |
Hi Tired,
Tabram 6th AUG, Nichols, 31st Aug. Chapman 8th sept[ not 7th].
If you want to find a real link read up on the 39 theory which is on these boards, now that is a major coincedence or is it?.
Richard... Ps Daniel Kelly on the 9th nov... |
tired_cos_of_jack_the_ripper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 1:17 pm: | |
I couldnt fine the date! thanks! lol! it still links in! do u c ? 6,7,8 then 31,30. |
Daniel R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 1:45 am: | |
oh whoops!
thanks for pointing that out Richard...
got my dates a little confused.
hey tired, tabram was 7....
chapman and kelly were 8,9....
so we have
7, 31, 8, 30, 9...
definetly an interesting pattern.
Dan
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Mick Brocking
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 9:52 pm: | |
If you are looking for patterns I have one that has a royal link. The letters MACE are the initals for 2 names.
M Mary/Mary
A Ann/Annie
C Catherine/Chapman
E Elizabeth/Eddowes
Its crazy but its fun.} |
Sarah Corso
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 11:36 am: | |
So I'm sitting at school doing my big huge research paper, and suddenly I realize the date connection with Martha Tabram. It really does make sense! I also noticed that with other alleged victims, none of the dates match up. If there really is a connection with the dates, then there would have been murders on either July 1st or December 29th. And as far as we know, there weren't. |
Neil K. MacMillan
Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 2:51 pm: | |
I haven't done a date or initial comparison. SInce I have been researching Jack's handy work I find the escalation pattern interesting Tabram stabbed, Nichols slashed, Chapman Slashed and eviserated Stride throat slashed. Eddows slashed and organs removed. Kelly slashed, organs removed face mutilated and heart burned. With each victim he descends deeper into the maelstrom of his insanity, all the while able to elude the massive search that is going on for him. I wonder just how many years did our boy laugh up his sleeve at everybody in general and the police in particular. Kindest regards, Neil |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 201
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 3:08 pm: | |
Neil,
Actually, it'd be more like:
Tabram - multiple stabs
Nichols - throat slashed, abdomen slashed
Chapman - throat slashed, eviscerated, organs removed
Stride - throat slashed
Eddowes - throat slashed, eviscerated, organs removed, face mutilated
Kelly - throat slashed, eviscerated, organs removed, face mutilated
Chapman and Eddowes had their uteri removed, Kelly her heart, and there wasn't any evidence that the heart was burned.
I personally discount Tabram as being a victim, but the escalation is interesting (with Stride, in my opinion, being an interrupted attack).
I won't go into the "insanity" issue, and I too wonder how long his laughed about it, but I think probably not too long - there has to be a reason why he quit.
B |
Amy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 12:27 pm: | |
To Sarah 
There is a murder on the 29th. his name was john gill, his body was badly mutated like the other victims, he was much younger, a child.  i can give you more information if you would like some- e-mail me at- blue_gal014@hotmail.com if you would like more information,
amy  |
Neil K. MacMillan
Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 5:39 pm: | |
Brian;
Thank you for the correction. I was doing my list off the top of my head without reference material handy.
Personally, I think Martha was a victim but I can't really say why. Call it a hunch but I think she was the first and he hadn't quite gotten the hang of it as it were. i use Tabram as a victim in my novel although I actually make her the second victim using a totally fictitious first victim. Again though, In actual fact I don't know if Tabram was a victim or not. the handling of the investigation into the two soldiers Tabram and her companion were with was rather sloppily handled. I believe in Tabram's case a dagger or a sailor's knife may have been one of the weapons used. A sailor putting to sea after the Kelly murder and subsequently dying at sdea or jumping ship afterwards could account for Jack's sudden halt especially if he were a sailor in the Royal Navy. Again, this is speculation and I have never seen evidence to support this area of inquiry.
I know I saw the bit about Kelly's heart being burned somewhere and can't remember where. Something was burned in the fireplace hot enough to melt the handle or spout of the teapot (I forget which)I'll try to look that up. I know that MAry Jane kelly was pregnant what happened to the foetus? Kindest regards, Neil |
AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 181
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 6:10 pm: | |
Merry Kelly heart on fire
Merry Kelly burnt by desire.
Made a nice cup of tea
so her killer could see,
the baby in the gloom,
the baby not in her womb.
A sailor's desire be not a sharp knife
nor a comely and shapely wife,
for a sailor likes to use the back door
and not waste his time with a common whore.
Novel it is and novel it always were,
I bid you goodnight you "wordsmith" sir. |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 263
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 5:59 am: | |
G'day Neil,
Mary Kelly wasn't pregnant. Her autopsy report confirmed this. The myth that she was pregnant started from a newspaper report. There was one that insisted that she had a child living with her.
Newspapers all wanted to make their stories as shocking and exclusive as possible. A lot would have been fuelled by the police secrecy of a missing organ. One policeman was repremanded for almost leaking the secret to a newspaper, so he changed his story the next day. It was considered too shocking for the public to know that her heart was missing!
Mary's friend Maria Harvey, who visited her on that fatal night, told her inquest that she left: "2 mens shirts, 1 boy's shirt, an overcoat a black one a man's, a black crepe bonnet with black strings, a ticket for a shawl, one little child's white peticote." in her room. Harvey was a laundress, and I'd say she left them there for Mary to sell at 'Lord Mayer's Day'. Only the black overcoat was handed to the police as it was hung over her broken window. All the rest went into the fire!
Let's move this to the Mary Kelly board, shall we?
LEANNE |
Mick Brocking
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 4:17 pm: | |
Hi Brian,
The assailant was almost certainly disturbed in the Nichols case as well. I have deduced from factual evidence given at the inquest, that the murder took place at approximately three twenty six, and the injuries would have taken at the least ten minutes to inflict, based on the testimony of the doctor in the Chapman case. Cross then arrived at the body at three thirty nine a.m. entering Bucks Row at three thirty six. The assailant then made his getaway down Bucks Row to Whites Row and into Bakers Row, hidden by the smog and smoke from the fires. Constable Mizen didn't enter Whites Row from Bakers Row until three forty six at the earliest giving Jack plenty of time to disappear into the night.
Mick} |
Neil K. MacMillan
Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 7:26 pm: | |
Leanne; Didn't mean to get into thread creep here, My apologies. I was responding to Brian and didn't mean to commit any faux pas.
Wolf; Did you ever think of taking up poetry? You're rather adept at it. 
One possibility if Tabram wasn't a victim or even if she was, would be one of good Queen Vic's Royal Marines. They may well have carried stout knives as well as the sailors. Were any Naval vessels docked during Tabram's murder? This would also account for the other woman claiming they went with soldiers. Kindest regards, Neil |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 277
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 4:54 am: | |
G'day,
The only suggestion that soldiers were involved in the Tabram killing came from the masculine looking 'Pearly Poll', who's throat became too "queer" to speak at her inquest! 'She' had to give her statements via an officer.
No soldiers were ever identified! In the second line-up, 2 were picked out but were able to proove alibis!
PC Barrett spoke to a private at 2am, near George Yard, who was waiting for a friend. The PC also failed to pick the private out!
I reckon 'Pearly Poll' was the private!
LEANNE |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 225
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 10:07 am: | |
Leanne,
The police may not have been able to capture the Ripper, but that doesn't make them morons.
I like to think they could tell a woman from a man.
C'mon. It's fun to play "what if", but it can get a little out of hand.
B |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 279
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 5:05 pm: | |
Brian,
They wouldn't have asked the witnesses to all drop their pants!!!!
LEANNE!
|
Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 227
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:55 pm: | |
Leanne,
I don't need to look down your pants to tell if you're a woman.
B |
SirRobertAnderson
Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 38
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 12:19 am: | |
"I don't need to look down your pants to tell if you're a woman. "
I believe in the immortal maxim of Ronald Reagan: "Trust, but verify".
Sir Robert |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 287
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 7:32 am: | |
G'day Brian, Robert,
'Pearly Poll' didn't speak, (for long anyway), at Martha Tabrams inquest. Maybe 'she' was frightened of being found out!
Walter Dew wrote in his memoirs that Poll was hiding something, and Sir Melville Macnaghten heard a similar story!
At the time they weren't to know her death was the start of a series, in which the killer wasn't to be found. But today, we have the advantage of studying the case from back to front!
LEANNE |
Robert Charles Linford
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robert
Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 9:00 am: | |
Hi Leanne
If a man dressed up as a woman, was interviewed by the police, walked along two lines of soldiers, and appeared at an inquest, without being found out - then all I can say is, it was a very close shave.
Robert |
Leanne Perry
Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 289
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 9:39 am: | |
G'day,
Reading the book 'The Complete History of Jack the Ripper' about 'Pearly Poll', it says that after 'she' promised police that she would attend an identity parade at the Tower on the 10th, she disappeared for two days without telling them.
They located her two days later and she attended a parade. According to the 'East London Observer': 'Pearly Poll was asked, "Can you see either of the men you saw with the woman now dead?" Pearly Poll placed her arms akimbo, ganced at the men with an air of an inspecting officer, and shook her head. This indication of a negative was not sufficient. "Can you identify anyone?" she was asked. 'Pearly Poll claimed with a good deal of feminine emphasis, "He ain't here." The woman was very decided on this point, and the men were then dismissed.'
Reading that report, made me laugh. She didn't want to use her masculine voice at first. This puts my mind on a female impersonation act I saw at a night club once. It was amazing, you couldn't tell they were really males!
LEANNE |
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