Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Games & Diversions
About the Casebook


Join the Chat Room!

Defense wounds? Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Victims » Mary Jane Kelly » Defense wounds? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 2648
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 5:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have been rattling on about this on the Dr Williams thread so thought I should put it where it belongs!

The fact that has long bugged me are the 'defense wounds' on Mary's arms.....They are above and below the forearm not totally consistent with traditional ones on the underside of the forearm only in most cases when the arms are thrown up to defend the face,.....I don't think it's a vast stretch of imagination to think that they may have well been inflicted post or 'during' mortem....As we look at the mutilation the odd slash on the arms and thumb! would not seem to be extraordinary! if Jack entered...or was there at the time and leant across and sliced the carotid very quietly pushing Mary's face into the pillow and this explaining the 'spurt' of blood on the partition.... AND this would leave Jack in a position where he could think... well she was awake and defended herself!!! Clever move!!!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Suzi Hanney

If the cry of " oh Murder" ,herd by two sources, was indeed Kelly's, then she was given time to defend herself. He has changed his MO , and place of murder(indoor),for MK, which strengthens my existing belief that she was the focus of the event.The MO for the others gave no time for them to defend. They were facing the other way and he slit thier thoats for a quick death.

I believe the reason for the ripper taking MK indoors and giving her time to defend herself was this.The murderer wanted the satisfaction of Kelly knowing WHY before she died.With the others they would have met thier maker none the wiser.I believe the ripper wanted Kelly to know who he was , the reason, and the personal satisfaction of telling her she will die at his hands i.e. she loses, he wins, and she will know it before departing. When it clicks to Kelly the situation she is faced with, she screams " oh murder" , and vainly throws her arms up for defence while he slashes into her.I believe this to be the scenario.HE INTENDED THIS LAST VICTIM IN HIS SERIES TO KNOW HIM, HOW AND WHY, THUS GIVING HER A WINDOW FOR DEFENCE.

* This is why I believe Kelly was killed by someone with a motive against her, or the name Mary Anne. Someone like Barnett, SJ. Williams, S.W.Gull,ect. Not a randomly killing suspect such as Maybrick, Kosminski, Sickert, Druitt ect.

Thanks - Jason Smith.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Frank van Oploo
Chief Inspector
Username: Franko

Post Number: 669
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 5:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Suzi & Jason,

Dr Bond's report of his post-mortem examination of Mary Jane Kelly's body reads among other things:
"The right thumb showed a small superficial incision about 1 in long, with extravasation of blood in the skin & there were several abrasions on the back of the hand moreover showing the same condition."

Wounds showing extravasation of blood in the skin means that they were inflicted while the person who received them was alive. As Dr Bond explicitly mentions extravasation in the case of these wounds only and in none of the others, this seems to indicate that only these wounds were in fact inflicted while MJK was still alive. Which would make the wounds on her arms post-mortem and the defense probably very short-lived (maybe she uttered a cry, she lifted her right hand and that was it).

Of course, as with many other aspects of this whole case, there's no certainty here either, but I think it's certainly something to take into account.

All the best,
"There's gotta be a lot of reasons why I shouldn't shoot you, but right now I can't think of one."

- Clint Eastwood, in 'The Rookie' (1990)

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Register now! Administration

Use of these message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use. The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping. The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements. You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.