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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2662
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:05 am: |       |
The Times, 10 November 1888
"While this examination was being made a photographer, who, in the meantime, had been sent for, arrived and took photographs of the body, the organs, the room, and its contents."
Like so many things, it depends on individual interpretation, but the above statement by the Times may indicate that other photographs had been taken besides the two we now have of Kelly's body.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Daniel R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 8:34 am: | |
This is certainly an interesting possibility.
a quick question:
Is the second Kelly photo considered to be a genuine article?
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Kevin Braun
Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 32
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 1:12 pm: | |
Daniel L,
Check out "Dissertations".
For a link on the MJ crime scene photographs see
http://casebook.org/dissertations/dst-kelly.html
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Priscilla M Steele
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:47 pm: | |
What about this photo? Is it genuine? Are there anymore?  |
Guy Hatton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 6:08 am: | |
Isn't that part of the set of From Hell? |
Robert Clack
Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 39
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 5:27 pm: | |
It is
Rob |
Adam Wood
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 4:20 am: | |
The photo was kindly supplied by Stewart Evans for use in Ripperologist, as well as others taken by him on his visit to the set of From Hell.
Adam |
Christopher DiGrazia
Police Constable
Username: Cmd
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:30 am: | |
I can understand Priscilla's feelings - when that issue of the Rip arrived at my door, I was gobsmacked for a moment, thinking a brand new Miller's Court photo had been found!
If only some day Eric Barton's set of photographs would turn up. . . |
Daniel R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 9:11 am: | |
Stephen,
to add to your original point I found this whilst browsing through the casebook press reports:
___________________________________
The Globe (Canada)
12 November 1888
THE HORRIBLE WORK OF "JACK THE RIPPER."
The Dorset Street Murder.
Dr Gabe, of Mecklenburg square, who viewed the body of Mary Jane Kelly, alias Fisher, yesterday morning, said that in his experience in dissecting rooms never had he seen such ghastliness. At one o'clock in the morning Mary Jane had been heard a fellow-lodger crooning a drunken song, perhaps to the murderer. From that hour till half past 10 o'clock, when the body was found, all is a hideous blank. Before the post mortem examination a photographer was set to work on the court and house. The state of the atmosphere was unfortunately not favorable to good results. The photographer, however, succeeded in securing several negatives. The post mortem lasted two hours and was of the most thorough character. Every indictation as to the manner in which the murderer conducted his awful work was carefully noted, as well as the position of every organ and the larger pieces of flesh. The surgeons report will be of an exhaustive character, but it will not be made public until they give the evidence at the coroner's inquest.
Dr. Forbes Winslow says the murder is the work of the same homicidal lunatic who committed the other crimes in Whitechapel. The harrowing details point to this conclusion.
Gen. Warren, chief of the metropolitan police, has issued a proclamation offering a free pardon to any accomplice the Whitechapel may have had, provided he will give information which will lead to the murderer's apprehension. The woman whose mutilated body was found in the Dorset street house yesterday was a native of Limerick, Ireland. She migrated to Wales, where she married a collier who was subsequently killed by an explosion. After that she drifted to London.
___________________________
Please note I have added the 'bold' and 'italic' fromatting to highlight the appropriate areas of text.
Again we have a situation where the wording of the article ambiguous.
To me the word 'several' seems to indicate the possibility of at least one more picture.
Though as the journalist notes '...the atmosphere was unfortunately not favorable to good results.' So perhaps any other photo's were discarded due to partial or total loss of visibility/clarity in the picture.
As far as I see we have three possibilities:
1) there were only ever two kelly photo's
2) there is at least one more unreleased or undiscovered photo.
3) there was a least one more unreleased photo but it was for some reason lost, destroyed or discarded.
Just some thoughts.
Dan |
Antagora C.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 5:24 pm: | |
Well, the first thing that it came to me as a question is that is it truth that in the room that Mary Jane Kelly was found, in one of the walls was writing the intials of "FM",(Florence Maybrick?)...Becouse, i dont see those initials in any photograph.(the two photos that we all have seen).
Sorry if you canīt understand, iīm from Latinoamerica. |
Sarah
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 5:21 am: | |
Hi Antagora,
Yes the initials are supposed to be there, however, I have only seen them in the programme about James Maybrick where they were highlighted. I cannot see them now however hard I look.
Also, it is a shame that there were never any, or as far as I know, any pictures of Mary Kelly when she was alive. It would be nice to have seen her alive as it is hard to picture her from the drawings and obviously from the pictures in Millers Court and that's even if that body was hers, which I continue to believe it probably wasn't, but I won't go into that right now.
Regards, Sarah |
Maryanne
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
The initials FM are there. I would never have realised it had it not been for my recent purchase of "The Jack the Ripper" diaries which shows the usual photograph of Mary Kelly on the bed. On the wall above her body is FM which this particular book circled and even enlarged in another print. I wondered if it had been touched up in order to emphasise the authenticity of the diary so checked up on another photograph that I have from another source. The "M" is clearly visible in this one too and interestingly enough nothing is mentioned of this "M," but I can see it distinctly enough. The "F" is a lot less distinct but also present. The diary "Implies" that this is meant to be the initials of Florence Maybrick, wife of James Maybrick who was having an affair which is supposed to be the reason why he might've resorted to killing prostitutes, he was comparing them with his wife.
As for Mary Kelly she was perhaps someone who reminded him of his wife, she was pretty, had reddish hair and was near his wife's age.
Even if one disputes the diary and it's "conclusions" if as I can see, there is at least the letter "M" on the wall besides the body of Kelly, it obviously was some clue that the killer was leaving behind.
Another thing this diary points out that I hadn't realised was the marking on the cheeks of another victim(s) that formed when put together was the letter "M."
Although like I said I can see definitely the "M" (the "F") is not as distinct, I could not see them on the photo on this site. But I've since looked in other books on sale and can see it quite clearly. I also had my husband to look at the photograph with me (he is more of a sceptic than me) and I asked him to tell me if he could see anything. He replied the letter "M."
Really eerie and fascinating. |
Maryanne
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 7:10 pm: | |
Yes FM is clearly on the wall besides her. I have to look hard to see the "F" but the "M" is quite distinct. Possibly I wouldn't have noticed it had I not been in possession of "The Ripper Diary." I asked my husband to confirm if he could see a letter there and he could make out the "M." He's more sceptical than I am about such things! That is a strange thing for the killer to have written. But I have various pictures of that one photo now, some clearer than others, but it is definitely there the lettering. One theory is that Mary Kelly supposedly reminded Maybrick of his wife with her red hair and he often regarded his wife as a whore because she was having an affair.
The "FM" might very well have been a clue to the murderer or his motives, but whether it actually stands for "Florence Maybrick" is another thing! We shall never really know. |
Kris Law
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 9:59 am: | |
I have read in at least two Ripper books (neither of which i can recall at the moment, i will look tonight and try to repost with where I found this info.) that at least one other photo was taken of Kelly.
It was stated that they took an extremely close photograph of her eyes. Apparently at the time there was a belief that when someone was murdered, their eyes kept an upside-down and backwards negative of the last thing they saw, in this case the face of the Ripper. So, at least one other picture of Mary Kelly's face did exist at some point. Possibly stolen by whoever stole the second one back in the day . . . |
Maeve
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 4:06 pm: | |
She doesn't seem to have the same features of the other victims. Age, height, hair, eyes, etc... |
neil
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 4:40 pm: | |
Hi Kris
Is the common picture that we see of her face (as on this of this website), merely a close up of the most common picture or could this be the picture to which you refer? |
Kris Law
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kris
Post Number: 64
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 4:46 pm: | |
Hi Neil,
I'm not sure which picture of Mary's face you are referring to, I have only ever seen the famous two.
I would imagine the photo you refer to is simply an enlargement of the famous bed photo though, as I have heard nothing of another photo being discovered.
It would seem to me that would be a significant find. |
Oli ver Jokel
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 4:04 pm: | |
Where can I find Crime Scene pictures? |
james kray
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 8:23 am: | |
It is possible that photographs in my posession may just may be those taken of mary kelly. Different view totally from the published ones how can i find this out |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 486
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 3:21 pm: | |
Oh brother, here we go again. Arfa, is that you?Well you can start by registering so that we know who you are and have at least some indication that you are not a hoaxer. We've had enough of hoaxers.
Andy S. |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 223
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 12:44 pm: | |
Andrew, I totally agree! James, who are you? No one would accuse you of lying, but we have been hoaxed before.
Mikey |
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 4:29 pm: | |
Well I'm an "Unregistered guest" but I'm no hoaxer. My E-mail is always added to my post too.
I sometimes make mistakes or get lost on a subject or two but I'm here because it's a hobby of mine and has been for a long time to look into the case. I find Jack the Ripper, his victims and the suspects like a never ending guessing game. Some pieces fit while others do not. Who would not find this whole thing interesting? Had Shakespeare lived in the late 1800's, he would haven writen a play about it. He would likely be a suspect as well. However I think James should post his image or send it to someone here. Something... |
Edgar Hadley
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 4:41 pm: | |
Hi James,
Just post scans of the photographs to this site without excuses or delay and the experts here will help you.
Regards,
Edgar
|
Peter Barton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 9:13 am: | |
Hi,
I don't see what all the fuss is about,
I have five photographs of Mary Kelly's corpse,left to me by my father.
Three of them have never been published.
So what?
Peter Barton |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 491
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 9:26 am: | |
Is this April Fool's Day in the UK as well?
Andy S. |
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