| Author |
Message |
    
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 806
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 3:31 pm: |       |
In The Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper there is an article by our very own AP Wolf. It contains this passage:
"... if any of the Ripperologists really want to know who Jack the Ripper was then they should find out who used to live at No 29 Aldgate High Street, just off Whitechapel High Street. Because that is where Catherine Eddowes decided to go when she was roaring drunk, where she was subsequently arrested..."
In confirmation of this the following statement was made at the Eddowes inquest:
City-constable Lewis Robinson, 931, deposed: At half-past eight, on the night of Saturday, Sept. 29, while on duty in High-street, Aldgate, I saw a crowd of persons outside No. 29, surrounding a woman whom I have since recognised as the deceased.
Howver the plot thickens as according the census data for 1881, 1891 and 1901 this address did not exist!
I have searched all three returns with the following results:
Aldgate High Street
1891
28 Algate High Street
Henry Phillips (Head) aged 53 - Furniture Dealer
Julia Phillips (Wife) aged 48
Abraham Phillips (Son) aged 28 - Buyer of Furniture
Aaron Phillips (Son) aged 25 - Furniture salesman
Phillip Phillips (son) aged 23 - Furniture salesman
Abigail Phillips (Daughter) aged 21
Cecilia Darton (Servant) aged 24 - Domestic servant
Alice Russell (Servant) aged 18 - Domestic servant
30 Aldgate High Street
Uninhabited
31 Aldgate High Street
John H James (Head) aged 56- Tobacco cutter
Maria S James (Wife) aged 58
1881
28 Aldgate High Street
Henry Phillips (Head) aged 42 - Furniture dealer
Julia Phillips (Wife) aged 39
Abraham Phillips (Son) aged 18 - Furniture dealer
Francis Phillips (Daughter) aged 17
Aaron Phillips (Son) aged 15
Phillip Phillips (Son) aged 13
Abagail Phillips (Daughter) aged 11
Alice Farwell (Servant) aged 25
30 Aldgate High Street
John Cole (Head) aged 69 - Ironmonger
Louisa M Cole (Daughter) aged 47
Edith Cole (Grand daughter) aged 19
Jane Smith (Niece) aged 23
The 1901 census address listing goes straight from No 28 to No 30 Aldgate High Street
For all three returns I have looked at a few houses either side of those transcribed above to make sure this was not a listing for one side of the road with even numbers
Any comments on this or explanations would be more than welcome!
Chris
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Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 518
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 3:48 pm: | |
Hi, Chris
As with so many things, this question was discussed on the old message boards, and our late friend, Adrian M. Phypers (Viper) said at that time, that 29 Aldgate High Street did not exist. I recall that Viper was going to look into the matter but I can't remember what the upshot of his investigation was, if anything. If anyone has the CD Rom they might search for the topic. I have the Message Boards CD-Rom (much recommended, folks!) but can't locate it at this moment. 
All my best
Chris
(Message edited by ChrisG on December 30, 2003) |
Natalie Severn
Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 153
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 3:52 pm: | |
Hi Chris,I"m not in London at the moment so havent access to my books etc but I seem to remember reading that Kate was outside the Post Office in Aldgate High Street.Possibly this wasnt
included in the census because noone did live there-if it was a big general post office? However I may well be mistaken about this.
All the Best
Natalie |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 648
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 4:26 pm: | |
I have already apologised for this many times, so I ain’t going to do it again. If I remember correctly the address - as Natalie points out - had some sort of postal connection at that time, but, and this is probably a big ‘but’, at the time of the crimes in 1888 it was thought to be a ‘common’ hotel above the furniture store and makers. I like that suggestion for it saves my bacon.
Postal directories are available for the years concerned and that should settle the matter, however I do feel it worthwhile to hold in mind that an entire department had been set up within Scotland Yard at that exact time to control and licence the common lodging houses and hotels of the Whitechapel area simply because so many of them were operating illegally and were not registered as such.
I have always entertained the suspicion that the address we speak of was such.
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 807
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 4:55 pm: | |
Hi AP
Many thanks for your comments - I did not remember this from the old boards and as I have just reread both the Mammoth Boom and your own volume it stuck in my mind
Your notes above make sense and there must have been many such unlicensed and illegal establishments, especially in the East End
Hope all is well and thanks to all for the comments
Chris
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David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 211
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 5:50 pm: | |
Hi, Chrises George and Scott, AP, and Natalie:
Here's Viper's post, which I think Chris George is referring to: Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Victims: Specific Victims: Catherine Eddowes: Catherine Eddowes (General Discussion): Archive through March 03, 2001
In the late 1860s numbers 28 and 29 were both used by a wine importer. In about 1870 he sold up and the properties were taken on by a Henry Phillips, furniture warehouseman. A year or two later his Kelly’s entry of 28-29 AHS becomes plain no. 28. The most likely explanation is that Phillips converted the two properties into one and only needed the one mailing address.
Presumably when PC Robinson arrested Eddowes he glanced at the adjacent buildings (still numbered), and simply assumed he was outside no. 29 - as would once have been the case, of course.
Regards, V.
A combined Nos. 28 & 29 would have made a good space for the furniture store Chris Scott found.
The confusion regarding the hotel comes about because, as Viper posted on another thread, there were two streets called Aldgate--Aldgate Street (where the hotel was) and Aldgate High Street (where Eddowes was arrested).
Adam Wood had found the listing for the hotel in Goad's Insurance Map:
29/30/31 William Smith & Co., Tailors - with Hotel over
This second thread can be found on the CD: Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Specific Suspects: Contemporary Suspects [ 1888 - 1910 ]: Cutbush, Thomas
Cheers,
Dave |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 533
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:15 am: | |
Hi, David:
Many thanks for reproducing the post by Viper giving the answer to this mystery. I had felt certain that the intrepid Viper had provided the answer to this question and am glad to see that indeed he had.
All my best
Chris |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 321
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:27 pm: | |
Question:
Were houses numbered consecutively in 1888, as opposed to even numbers on one side of the street and odd numbers on the other? I ask this because on modern Hanbury Street Nos. 28 and 30 are opposite the former site of no. 29 (i.e., opposite the present brewery). Is this just modern numbering?
Andy S.
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 177
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 1:58 pm: | |
you know andrew i was just wondering the same thing, if no 28 were knocked thru with anything the way we number streets its more likley to be 26 or 30 so i assume there is a difference or we sahould be looking for 29 between 27 and 31
jennifer |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 816
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
Andrew and Jennifer
From the census work I have done there does seem to be no consistent rules. I have found streets with the modern system (i.e. odd numbers on one side and even on the other) but plenty of examples (like Aldgate High Street) where the numbers run consecutively along a single side of the road/street
Chris
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Scott Nelson
Sergeant
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 5:11 pm: | |
The numbers ran consecutively on both sides of the street, numbers 1 through 42 on the north side [from west to east] and numbers 43 through 85 on the south side [from east to west]. There were occasional lapses where buildings had been knocked through and combined with adjacent premises. |
Suzi Hanney
Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 242
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 4:39 pm: | |
Hi all..just picked this one up.. I too have been on the search for the elusive no 29 to no (or not much avail!) The 'other side of the road' theory may have some credence though..well??
Suzi |
