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  | Archive through October 15, 2003 | Christopher T George | 25 | 1 | 10-15-03 5:26 am |
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AP Wolf
Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 432
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 4:03 pm: | 
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Chris
Thank you for your measured reply.
Yes, of course, you are quite right, and I do apologise for my untoward attitude, and do wish that late at night I could be as measured and responsible as you in reply.
However I have to say that it was during the research for the ‘Myth’ that I first became acutely aware that many killers had been almost entirely influenced by violent images they had discovered in ‘True Crime’ publications where the authors chose to include images of the brutalized victims, and this applied in particular to volumes concerning Jack.
Quite what these authors hoped to achieve by using these sordid and disturbing images is anybody’s guess, but my only conclusion had to be that ‘sensationalism’ was their true purpose.
In consequence I see nothing but pure evil in sensationalising such brutal images and then exposing young minds to them.
Now just if - and this is a big ‘if’ - all the teachers happened to be like you or Stewart Evans, and the material they taught and disseminated had been generated by such careful thought as you obviously demonstrate, then I would be more than happy to see Jack taught in schools in a historical and social context.
But life is not like that, and we have to face the alarming fact that infecting this entire Jack scene is a hard core cadre of sensationalists who propagate and disseminate truly dangerous theories and images - mostly relating the murder of women to sexual desire - and it is these self gratifying and smug individuals who do represent very real and grave danger to young and developing minds.
Jack could be socialised in the right educative context, I will allow you that very good point, but not while the barmy brigade rule the ranch.
That’s why I was loading my gun.
Not against you, but against them.
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Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 765
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 5:51 pm: |
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G'day,
I missed the chat room debate on this subject, but what do you think about study in schools that is strictly controlled in regards to studying the gorey bits?
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 771
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 1:49 am: |
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G'day Severn,
That's what I mean by strictly controlled. Explaining to students that these humans thought they had no other choice but to sell themselves. At the time women couldn't enter into meaningful careers, so they were willing to put their lives at risk. Then you could look at how society changed.
Positive things could be concentrated on, like the development of forensic science.
LEANNE |
Alan Sharp
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ash
Post Number: 100
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 5:48 am: |
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There are all sorts of subjects which could be brought in to any study of the Ripper. It would be very useful in any class on Social Policy, as you could bring in subjects such as slum clearance, the development of the welfare state leading to the end of the workhouse system, the importance of adequate street lighting, etc etc etc  |
L.K. Cook
Police Constable
Username: Xinda
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 7:46 am: |
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I say, why not a course on JTR. Unites States colleges have courses studying Elvis and Oprah, so why not Ole Jack.
xinda
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Sarah Long
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 6:45 am: |
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Severn,
U mentioned earlier that these people were real and deserve some respect. Of course they do but weren't the people in the wars real, weren't all the people in history real? Of course they deserve respect, however, with all due respect, if I had been one of the victims and I could somehow come back I would be happy to know people were still talking about what happened. I would hate to think that I and all the other victims had all be forgotton. I don't see why JTR shouldn't be taught in schools. I wish it had when I was at school. I often thought that maybe "Criminal History" might have been a good subject to add, not necessarily to the curriculem (can't spell) but maybe as an 'A' level subject or something to study at university, I mean they teach other such stupid subjects at universities these days that wouldn't be of any use in real life so they might as well teach this, plus it's probably more interesting than half the stuff children get taught. I mean when I was doing my GCSE's, do you know what I studied i history?? It was the bit in between the world wars, I mean not even the wars!! THE BIT IN THE MIDDLE!! It was as boring as hell.
Also I believe that 15 & 16 year olds would easily be able to handle those pictures. Have you seen 15 and 16 year olds today!! They act like they are 18 year olds and often look like it too. I never found things like that gruesome, it's just interesting.
Anyway waffled on for long enough.
Ciao, Sarah |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 320
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:56 am: |
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Hello All
Actually there is a book by Katie Colby-Newton, entitled GREAT MYSTERIES-JACK THE RIPPER (1990), which I recall buying from the juvenile or young adults section of a bookstore. It is a somewhat sanitized version of the story without morgue photos or other material which might be upsetting to the youthful. It details social conditions, the crimes, the search and the suspects and encourages the reader to think for his or herself about the plausibility of candidates and possible solutions.
I don't see any reason why a book like this could not be assigned course material in a high school class. Although to be honest kids my sons age (shortly to be 16) might consider it insulting not to have certain material included and have other material glossed over.
I don't anticipate that a book like this or any book for that matter on JTR or any other serial killer to be an encouragement for misogyny. If a man hates woman I would say logic dictates that his problems go far deeper than being triggered by mere exposure to material in which woman are honestly depicted as fallible human beings who end up prostituting themselves to stay alive.
Conversely, would a class such as the one we are talking about be filled with men with an antipathy toward women? I rather doubt it. This type of man is a complex creature who, I believe, would be more interested in seeing women subjugated in bondage or other debasing situations created by a self appointed persecutor of the object of his hatred. Reading about JTR will not prompt someone to lose the ability to develop a normal conscience and the ability to empathise with all human beings.
Serial killers are seeking to control the objects of their sexual fantasies, be they male, female children or otherwise. It seems to me they are too busy in their own little twisted worlds to bother studying boards like the one we are on at the moment.
Some will no doubt disagree and I respect their opinions.
All The Best
Gary
A college course on Oprah? I wonder if it might be a tad biased against the human male and his many frailties and inadequacies. |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 56
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 2:41 pm: |
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Hi All,
With respect to whether JTR should be studied in schools. Sue and I were asked in mid May by Bishops Park Secondary School Clacton, to take the whole year 7 for the day, talking about the social conditions of 1888 leading up to the Whitechapel Murders. This meant taking 6 classes of 30 students. We started at 8-45am and finished the last class at 3-15pm. We provided a slide show and took turns speaking about the victims, police enquiries, and the murders. The students in fact wrote a play about the murders with Sherlock Holmes being the chief investigator and included a mock trial. After going through all the usual suspects they came up with the culprit.
}SHERLOCK HOLMES!
A&S. |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 773
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 5:14 am: |
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G'day,
As I pointed out in my post on Monday 13, alot of positive issues could be learned about while studying the Ripper. And if the victims photographs were completely censored, students would be more tempted to search book shops or the internet. Show them briefly, and they're not going to bother!
LEANNE |
Brad McGinnis
Sergeant
Username: Brad
Post Number: 38
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 8:08 am: |
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Hi all,
To clarify my earlier post, I first read about our boy as a 10 year old and got the book "Bad Men and Bloodletters" through the school buy a book program. There were no photos and most of the info was romantic pap. (foggy London streets, gas lights, etc.)
Im also not saying JTR should be taught as a schoolastic course. Thats absurd. We have an interest because we find this footnote in history facinating. I became interested because of what was NOT said in the book. I didnt know the ladies in question were hookers until I read an artical in Time magazine while a college student when the Prince Eddy thing came out.
I also dispute the idea that exposure to this encourages violence. As a child growing up I was fed a steady network TV menu of Westerns. Gunsmoke, Wagontrain, Bonanza, ....I could go on and on. I watched the demise on the small screen of more Indians than probably ever existed. Also Ive seen assorted bad guys gunned down by the gross. Ok, how many guys , including Native Americans, have I killed? One less than Ted Kennedys car. I do have a deep interest in Native American archeology and anthropology.
We dont like JTR because we like killers, we dont like loose ends and unsolved mysteries.
JTR has a following because we DONT know. Richard Speck is, sorry, was, a piece of crap with no interest. Both killers, one caught, one not.
Its the mystery, the quest to find answers that brings us here. Not the adoration of murder.
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Severn
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 4:08 pm: |
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Hi Leanne,Sarah Gary et al, I am new to the boards and must get registered soon because its brilliant!Thanks for your words and yes I agree why not let them about JtR and through this gain a whole new understanding of the state of londons poor etc I tend to think the images are not OK though because they rob the victims of any last right to dignity.The sort of thing Sue and Andy did goes down a treat however and I really liked that idea...As a footnote when my daughter was just five I took her to the Tower of London.She took a look at the execution block and was transfixed as were several other children.Adults dont have a monopoly on gore whatever they may like to think.Best Natalie Severn. |
Sarah Long
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 3:21 pm: |
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Sorry Brad but what was absurd about teaching JTR in schools? After all the other posts on here I was surprised by this comment of yours. So please could you explain why you think this is so? |
Mandy Rose
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 9:20 pm: |
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I personally think that it would be okay to teach about JTR in school but at a higher level like highschool or college. I don't think that it would be too good to teach to public school children like grade four or five because, quite frankly, they are too young to understand. But then again, they'd probably just and murder someone far more worse then Jack ever did on their playstaion or xbox. |
Azriel
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 1:20 pm: |
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Hello All,
I say why not! My history teacher taught my class abou the Rape of Nanking. He even had some of us read the book about it. Jack the Ripper, whether we want him to be or not, is part of history and because his murders are still unsolved, they continue to be history. I have loved every second of my research about Jack the Ripper. He has made an impression on the whole of the world.
Azriel |
Jeff Leahy
Police Constable
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 5:46 am: |
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Stumbled across this thread with interest because I help my nephew with a GSCE project on Jack the Ripper last year. He's since gone on to take A level history.
So as far as I was aware, in Essex at least, Jack is part of the carricular.
And why not, its about getting the kids enthused in something they find interesting.
Jeff |
Paul C
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 8:07 am: |
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I think that teaching about Jack would be a great idea. All kids find it easier to learn if they are taught in an interesting way, instead of just having dry facts thrust at them. For example, I took Latin to O Level because it was taught using stories about Romans in Britain, which we translated from Latin. You worked at it because you wanted to get the story. If actual History lessons were done this way I would have stuck with it. |
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