Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
About the Casebook

 Search:
 

Join the Chat Room!

The Future is Bright Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » General Discussion » The Future is Bright « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through November 09, 2005AP Wolf50 11-09-05  3:39 pm
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard

Post Number: 1109
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 5:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for elaboratiing further on the issue,A.P.

I was not trying to dismiss the point you are trying to raise here. Far from it,my friend.

It would be a good thing to check out Hospitals for early October 1888 entries for these sort of cases.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 2803
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 5:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dave, thanks for the compliment.
Just like Robert, you have a great sense of humour, and I always enjoy your posts so much.
I think we share a love of the obscure when it comes to research.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 2809
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two senior police officers involved in the Whitechapel Murderer case who died of chronic Bright’s disease:

Inspector Edmund Reid. Died 1917.

Chief Inspector John Littlechild. Died 1923.

Surprised to note that there was another senior police officer involved in the case besides Cutbush who committed suicide.
Inspector Walter Andrews who hung himself in 1899.
Now that is unusual, and I’m beginning to wonder if both Cutbush and Andrews suffered from chronic Bright’s, as suicide appears to be relatively common in sufferers at the chronic stage of the disease.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

BelindafromHenmans
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 1:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't want to throw a bucket of water over this, but it is as yet completely unknown whether the kidney sent to Lusk in a brown paper parcel was Catharine Eddowes own. ( This is the kidney identified as belonging to a Bright's sufferer). As it is a well thought through prank, that parcel, it is most unlikely. Until it can be established that it was hers, ( and none of her behaviours place her as a sufferer of the disease) - then the argument is futile, there is no evidential link between her and anyone who died of Brights that would stand up in a Court of law- it's pointless.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 5276
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 2:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Belinda

Sugden quotes Brown as saying that the right kidney was "pale bloodless with slight congestion of the base of the pyramids" and points to Nick Warren's opinion that this unquestionably indicates Bright's Disease.

Robert
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 2811
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 3:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Robert
I think there to be at least two, if not three, medical opinions of the age, that the intact kidney from Eddowes showed clear signs of Bright's disease.
Anyways I'm not trying to provide an evidential link between anyone who died of Bright's and Eddowes.
I'm just flicking rubber bands at the sun.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

BelindafromHenmans
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 4:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes. We're back to the can we trust Brown business. Can we? He was wrongly assessing Kelly's room at 13 Miller's Court and later, leaping out of windows. For me, she just wasn't acting the part of a woman dying of Bright's. Far from it. Very active, in fact. But as you say, AP, without evidence we're flicking bands at the sun.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 5278
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 3:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Belinda, it was Bond who went through the window.

Robert
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana

Post Number: 865
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 7:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am taking pathology this semester.
"Chronic glomerulonephritis . . . is a slowly progressive noninfectious disease that can lead to irreversible renal damage and renal failure. As an advanced stage of many kidney disorders, CGN results in inflammation followed by progressive destruction of the glomeruli. This progressive destruction causes a reduction in glomerular filtration with resulting retention of uremic poisons. . . . At first chronic glomerulonephritis is asymptomatic; then subclinical progression of the disease leads to hypertension, hematuria, proteinuria, oliguria, and edema. In the later stages with increasing renal failure, the hypertension becomes severe and azotemia develops. When the kidneys fail to remove urea from the blood (the condition of azotemia) the body compensates by attempting to excrete urea through the sweat glands. Tiny crystals of urea appear on the skin; this condition is termed uremic frost. The patient experiences fatigue malaise, nausea, vomiting, pruritis and dyspnea."

Bibliographic Reference Frazier, Margaret, and Jeannette Drzymkowski. Essentials of Human Diseases and Conditions. third ed. St. Louis: Elsevier Saunders, 2004.
Parenthetical Within Text (Frazier et al. 507)


The above quotation applies to chronic glomerulonephritis, which is thought to be the result of immune mechanisms. There is also acute glomerulonephritis which usually follows a strep infection and from the description looks like it would progress much more rapidly.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz

Post Number: 2313
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 5:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi All,

Is it a coincidence that the Lusk kidney had signs of Bright's? Or was it such a widespread disease that a prankster could pretty much bank on his offal being in a similar condition to Kate's?

Love,

Caz
X

(Message edited by caz on November 14, 2005)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf

Post Number: 2825
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice idea, Caz.
I think the New York figures from the LVP show about 1 in 100 were sufferers, but that is just a wild guess... it could be worked out though.
I ain't no good at maths.
The London figures would be about the same, as both cities were subject to much immigration during that period.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

BelindafromHenmans
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 5:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True! :-) Bond went through the window. But you catch my drift. They were not exactly reliable, any of them, and I think that it's unlikely that Eddowes had Bright's. Because of her lively behaviour, I'm reluctant to take one Doctor's opinion, and then go 'looking for the moon'. No one will identify her killer via a Bright's disease victim.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tee@jtrforumsuk
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 6:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In some occult rituals a diseased body part is better than a clean unadulterated body part. And so ... The Ripper may have known, and wanted this ruined organ in particular.

Interesting thread AP.

Tee.

www.jtrforums.co.uk
THE Original JtRForums
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard

Post Number: 1122
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"In some occult rituals a diseased body part is better than a clean unadulterated body part.."

Please elaborate as to which occult rituals this refers to....if you are able to. Thank you.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard

Post Number: 1126
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 5:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"In some occult rituals a diseased body part is better than a clean unadulterated body part.."

The inference in this statement also suggests that the Ripper was pursuing diseased body parts,which begs the question...

How would the Ripper know that Mrs. Eddowes had Bright's Disease? Please elaborate.

Thank you.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg

Post Number: 3203
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 5:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How, Tee, guys

did Eddowes know herself she had it?
Jenni
"You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my mamma taught me better than that."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 7:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenni:

Its impossible to know of course,whether Kate knew,since we don't know if she was seen by a physician and diagnosed one way or the other at this time. I think that she, as with most hard-luck women of that time, was more concerned with having a roof over their head at the end of the day than a clean bill of health from the local doctor. I'd say no,Jenni. I don't think she would be aware of this condition...

...back to the other post above:

Which ritual specifies using "diseased organs" as part of a ritual ?

Which ritual specifies the condition of an organ before removing it and "using" it ?

Which sect or cult specifies the condition of an organ prior to using it ?

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Register now! Administration

Use of these message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use. The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping. The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements. You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.