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N. Beresford
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 12:57 pm: | 
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Wet or heavy weather days preceded each muder with with mainly bright, sunny or rain free days following. Does anyone think these weather conditions could affect the mind of a serial murderer? People have difficulty sleeping when a thunder storm's due. I don't know that if your sensitive to these sorts of things whether wet weather followed by a break with finer weather can cause the same problems.
Any thoughts, N |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 461
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 7:51 am: |
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Good Point N.B.,
I am sure the weather does have some kind of effect on 'sensitive' persons.
I have read of persons who became sexually aroused by the rain.
I have always thought the weather conditions on the night/early mornings on which JTR murders occurred were of utmost importance.
After all, putting aside rain's psychological effect on disturbed persons, rain can easily wash bloodstained hands, and bloodstained knives would
be easily cleaned by a heavy downpour.
Heavy rain might expunge graffitti on the outside of buildings too.
Do you have a table of the weather and what it was at a given hour on the particular nights, N.B.?
I do recall that the weather varied somewhat on the night of the "double event". Some rain and cold too.
Were any nights bright moonlight? Any heavy fog? |
Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 136
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 8:40 am: |
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N.B.
I know you are talking more about rain,fog,etc. but there is a town here in the states where the wind blows all the time. Guess what? The town has the highest suicide rate of any town here in the states! So, yes I believe the weather can play a major part in the way that the mind thinks.
I too believe the rain, fog etc. can play a part. I would also like to see a weather report for the nights of the murders. I seem to remember reading somewhere that there was little fog on those actual nights.
Cheers
Carolyn |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5003
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
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http://casebook.org/victorian_london/weather.html
There's a lot of info on Casebook!
Robert |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 994
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 1:13 pm: |
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Here's the chart Robert refers to:
*************************************************
Victims Date & Day Max Temperture (Fahrenheit) Min Temperature (Fahrenheit) Amount
of Rain Amount of Cloud Cover Remarks
Martha
Tabram 6 August
Monday 68.0 degrees 46.5 degrees 0.017 in 100% Cloudy w/occasional spots of rain; wet evening
7 August
Tuesday 78.9 degrees 55.2 degrees n/a 70% Bright & warm
Mary Ann
Nichols 30 August
Thursday 64.7 degrees 56.8 degrees 0.406 in 30% Fine & generally bright morning; thunder storm, 2 - 3P.M.; "showery" after
31 August
Friday 63.9 degrees 46.7 degrees n/a 30% Bright & fine throughout but cool
Annie
Chapman 7 September
Friday 65.2 degrees 58.4 degrees 0.037 in 50% Generally bright & fine throughout w/occasional showers
8 September
Saturday 60.5 degrees 46.3 degrees n/a 30% Bright morning; fair afternoon; spots of rain in evening
Elizabeth
Stride
&
Catherine
Eddowes
29 September
Saturday 68.1 degrees 55.1 degrees 0.242 in 100% Dull morning; fine day; sudden heavy rain at "9.5p.m." lasting till after midnight
30 September
Sunday 55.3 degrees 43.5 degrees n/a 30% Brilliant "autumnal" day
Mary Jane
Kelly 8 November
Thursday 46.3 degrees 36.2 degrees - - Dull cold day; rain at night
9 November
Friday 46.3 degrees 38.9 degrees - - Wet till 11A.M, then overcast
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Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 138
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 1:19 pm: |
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Robert,
Thank you for sharing that information with us. I need all the help I can get!!!
Thanks again,
Carolyn  |
Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 139
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 1:23 pm: |
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Howard,
You posted while I was thanking Robert, SO Thank you also for all of your help.
Thanks again,
Carolyn  |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 794
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 1:29 pm: |
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I don't live in England, so I can't answer this. How typical is this for fall weather in the U.K? If rain, fogginess and clouds are the norm then most of the non-kill days would have had them too and this data loses significance. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5008
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 4:43 pm: |
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Diana, I don't know what normal autumn weather would have been for 1888. As far as present day weather is concerned, here in the south-east, I feel (it's only a feeling) that it's changed over the last 10-15 years. Septembers seem quite balmy now. Whether this is the greenhouse effect etc I can't say.
Robert |
N. Beresford
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 8:59 am: |
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John,
I don't know about fog - I wouldn't mind finding out. There are tables on these boards somewhere that give the rainfall before and after the murders.
Starting with Martha Tabram:-
1)6-7/8/88 Wet evening Followed by Bright, warm day.
2)30-31/8/88 Thunder storm 2 - 3 AM -Bright, cool next day.
3)7-8/9/88 Occasional showers - Bright next day, rain in evening.
4)29-30/9/88 Heavy rain from 9.05 till after midnight - Brilliant Autumnal day next day.
5)8-9/11/88 Rain at night - Wet till 11.00AM, then overcast.
Looking at these statistics I can see what you mean about going out in wet weather, but it looks like that on no.s 2) and 4) he has appeared just after it's stopped raining. Perhaps there are less people about - still a lot of water to wash his hands. And it might have been the same on the other days, though drizzle might have the same effects of keeping people off the streets and allowing for washing hands. Good point!
The moon was either at the start of it's phases or the end of them, so a dark night all round.
I hope you find this interesting.
Regards, N. |
Walton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 9:22 am: |
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There is a useful table on this very site:
http://casebook.org/victorian_london/weather.html
None of the murders were likely to be in bright moonlight, given that on each occasion the Moon was at a phase of less than 50% and there was a good deal of cloud cover too. The Hanbury Street murder would have been committed by early daylight and the Millers Court murder presumably by fire/candlelight.
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N. Beresford
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
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Hello again,
I've done some more research into weather conditions. Very interesting!:-
1888 Rainfall for July, Aug., Sep., Oct., Nov. :-
Oxford: 119mm, 47mm, 33mm, 19mm, 114mm.
Southampton: 157mm, 64mm, 27mm, 42mm, 130mm.
Durham: 209mm, 62mm, 13mm, 40mm, 104mm.
The highest temp. in Oxford for that year was 19.4C in August where for other years it easily reaches 22C or 24C.
Diana, I think it was unusual for the year to have so much rain and mild temperatures but the rainfall declines in Aug, Sep, Oct so rain on certain nights might have been more unusual.
Carolyn - "No weather is ill, if the wind be still".
All the best, N.
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N. Beresford
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 3:30 pm: |
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Dear all,
Just to finish off the statistics above, some comparable data:-
Oxford '87 Rainfall: 18 , 40 , 61 , 53 , 46
_______'89 rainfall: 72 , 60 , 45 , 62 , 26
So'ton '87 ________: 20 , 73 , 72 . 33 , 104
So'ton '89 ________: 67 , 54 , 26 , 136, 38
Durham is a long way north but London could have been affected by eastern weather as it is.
Temperatures for June July and August:-
Oxford '87 : 21, 24 ,22 So'ton '87 : 22 ,24 ,23
______ '88 : 18 ,18 ,19 ______ '88 : 19 ,18 ,19
______ '89 : 20 ,20 ,19 ______ '89 : 22 ,21 ,20
Durham '87 : 20 ,23 ,20
______ '88 : 15 ,16 ,17
______ '89 : 20 ,19 ,18
Here is the rainfall for Durham :
_____________'87 : 20 , 38 , 114 , 58 , 75
_____________'89 : 68 , 81 , 21 , 94 , 23
All the best.
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 485
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Belated response to N.Beresford,
Sorry N.only just spotted your ingenious crossed-line on the other thread.I would not have known otherwise. Sorry.
Thanks to Robert Linford, I am now aware of the very useful weather, sun & moon charts on this site.
Someone has always been there before, it seems...
Anyway, I agree with you, some rain, but not on every murder night.I find the lunar charts more interesting.
Did the Ripper guess about the rain, and know more definitely about the moon's phases? Thereby choosing a dull moon and possible showers, when fewer people were likely to be in the streets wandering aimlessly?
Good point, N.Well done. |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 486
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Oh and yes, N.,
I think if the Ripper was effected by weather conditions, there does seem to be a pattern to the murder nights. |
c.d.
Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 33
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:11 pm: |
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I am wondering if the wet weather interfered in some way with Jack's profession, thus giving him free time he would not normally have.
c.d. |
N. Beresford.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 9:04 am: |
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I'm not sure if I've posted twice or not at all. I'll post again soon if necessary. Thanks. |
N. Beresford.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 9:08 am: |
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c.d. and John Ruffels make some good points there,
The thing I was wondering about was on murder nights 2 and 4, he appears just after it stops raining. So on murder night 4 he may have been sitting in the pub in Jewry Lane, waiting for the heavy rain to stop.
I'm glad you see a pattern, John, but I for the life of me cannot work it out.
cd, wet weather and a proffesion - there's people talking about haycarts on another thread - would rain prevent the moving of hay. or allow it suddenly after the rain stops.
I think it's quite possible this information is of very little use. I feel there is a correlation somewhere but I think it could be down to someone else to work it out, with an insight from whatever field it takes.
However, John, I think there was rain on every night. The evidence bears this out. But how heavy the rain is another matter.
What I would like to see is weather information for every day between August and December so I can answer Diana's point above.
I can't see where this is going without further information or professional input from psychology although the Jack's profession angle is interesting.
I'll leave it there chaps, with no other information. If anyone has any insights, go for it. I cannot get an angle on this.
Take care,
N.
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