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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 881
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 5:44 am: |       |
Hi,
Taking reference from reports in Brady street, and Bucks row, on the morning of the 31st august 1888, I now would consider that the killer of Nichols may have been suffering from somekind of physical deformity.
If reports are true, that Nichols appeared to have been trying to escape from an attacker, so much so she was desperatly trying to gain entry to a house, whilst faintly crying out' Police murder'. I would suggest that her killer, was experiencing some difficulty in catching her, which seems odd that a small,unfit middle aged woman, who had been drinking , could at least for a time manage to escape from her attacker,
I am also noting that Schwartz, claimed the man entering Bernier street[ broad shouldered] was walking if partial intoxicated, this infact might suggest that he was walking unsteadily, from a disability, rather than intoxication.
The above points, may or may not be relevant, but I feel , should be made.
Regards Richard.
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1824
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 8:46 am: | |
Richard,
No offense -- I don't mean to be disrespectful, but your speculations reaches new levels every time. From where do you get this stuff?
Nichols? Trying to escape her attacker? Gaining entry to a house? Because she was found outside a gate? What kind of fantasies are these? Is this a stated fact? Are there any real clues on the murder site that suggests it?
"I am also noting that Schwartz, claimed the man entering Bernier street[ broad shouldered] was walking if partial intoxicated, this infact might suggest that he was walking unsteadily, from a disability, rather than intoxication."
Firstly, this part of the story originates from a newspaper. But secondly -- and more important -- do you seriously mean that an intoxicated man can't walk unsteadily????? I bet there are no pubs in your area...
Why on Earth are we to even consider that he have to suffer from a physical deformity based on this?
If the murderer was physically deformed, he would have been much easier to identify and catch (just look at the police activity in connection with the murders of Stride and Eddowes, for example).
And what about the few relevant witness accounts we have, like Elizabeth Long and Lawende etc.; do they mention a man with a physical deformity or with disabled movements?
I mean, I can understand that the question is being raised if there are relevant facts to back it up (or signs that suggests it), but there are non!
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 331
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 8:55 am: | |
Glenn,
I totally agree with you. I understand people have a great desire to try to figure out who did these crimes, but, seriously, some of these suggestions are starting to stretch the fabric of plausibility.
Imagining that the Ripper is deformed based on these charges is like saying that he must have been ridiculously ugly because he always struck at night and didn't want to be seen.
Maybe I've just thought up a new theory. Should I copyright this post?
-K |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1825
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 8:59 am: | |
"Maybe I've just thought up a new theory. Should I copyright this post?"
Couldn't hurt, Kris. Couldn't hurt.
It's not worse than some others, so you better do that before someone claims their right to it. 
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2477
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 9:29 am: | |
Richard, are you going to re-name Barnett "Quasimodo Joe"?
Robert |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 334
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 10:17 am: | |
Or maybe "Barnet III"?
"My kingdom for a kidney!"
-K |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 277
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
Is there any evidence for a deformity from the psychological angle? |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 335
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 11:14 am: | |
Diana,
What would psychological evidence of a deformity consist of?
-K |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 278
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 3:25 pm: | |
It would tie in with low self esteem. It would mean that it would be harder for him to form relationships with the opposite sex and possibly might therefore lead to a hatred of women |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1827
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
No, Diana, there are no evidence of that, although I think it's very possible.
But what does that has to do with physical deformity and capability?
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Busy Beaver
Sergeant
Username: Busy
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
I would think a bloke with facial deformities would have been noticed by the prostitutes working the area and they would have been on the look-out for him, and it is quite likely that someone like this would have been very well known in the area. Psychological problems, unless really evident would be harder to detect. Other physical deformities, I would think not. The Ripper would have needed a good pair legs to scamper rather fast and not forgetting his hands to get that mutilating finished.
Busy Beaver |
Maria Giordano
Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 34
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 5:47 pm: | |
A man with some kind of speech impediment like stuttering might be seen as a sort of harmless guy to be pitied.
Just stirring the pot,here.
Mags |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 242
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 8:53 pm: | |
Maria is gonna make this into a Barnettite
ho-down.
Paul |
Dan Norder
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 121
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 1:52 am: | |
Too bad we don't have any good evidence of anyone with an actual documented speech impediment, penile dysfunction or something like that or else we might get somewhere with this deformity angle...
Oh, wait, there's one armed Liz. I don't think anyone turned her into a suspect yet.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 882
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 2:53 am: | |
Hi Guys,
I was purely giving a opinion, on possible occurances mentioned by witnesses to the press at that period.
It was recorded that a Mrs Corville's daughter woke her mother, stating that she believed someone was trying to get into the house, it was then that the 'Police murder' was heard several times spoken by a woman in a faint voice, and within a few seconds the crys got fainter, as if she was then further on.
My point was, if one takes that point in, then if the killer was an able bodied male, how come she had the luxury of an attempted escape.
Glenn.
Of course intoxication will result in walking from side to side, I am not that narrow minded, It could also be a result of lower limb damage.
By the way , I am not attempting to fit this speculation , into any suspect, purely offering a suggestion, which I believed was an acceptable observation.
Regards Richard. |
Dan Norder
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 122
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 3:35 am: | |
Richard,
Yes, an able bodied killer would have caught up with a fleeing, feeble, drunken, short-legged, wounded prostitute and silenced her rather quickly with no trouble.
Instead of thinking that the killer was physically deformed and unable to keep up, I think you should probably just admit that the story of her running around making noise that night was inaccurate. After all, the police stated that no sounds were heard, and they went around specifically asking everyone in the vicinity if they had heard anything. This is also consistent with the blood evidence showing she was attacked and killed where she was found.
While I can't see reading much into what is likely just another rumor with no factual basis, I do have to give you credit for entertaining an idea that would rule out your stated #1 (Barnett) and #2 (Sickert) suspects.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes |
Sarah Long
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 1182
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 6:25 am: | |
Richard,
I don't think the murderer would have had to have a a physical deformity for her to escape for a while (if it was her running around and crying out), for all we know she may have kicked him in the cohones!!
I don't think he could really have had problems with his legs, as I think he needed to escape pretty quickly and certainly not his hands (even in the film "From Hell" they stated that the Prince couldn't have committed the crimes with his shaky hands).
Sarah
Smile and the world will wonder what you've been up to 
Smile too much and the world will guess  |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 883
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 8:12 am: | |
Hi,
It is a fact that the only person seen by a witness to attack a victim, was walking unsteadily[Schwartz sighting]
My late father used to walk as if he had indulged to many, even when he had not, because of previous strokes.
We should remember, that Mrs Long, Lawande, saw a man standing still with respective victims.
We are assuming that the killer, ran for his life after committing these murders, surely a man seen to be walking exceptionly fast, or running , would have been more suspiscious, but a person seen, who appeared cripppled, and was seen to be struggling to get along, would have not have been seen as a likely candidate for the killer.
I must stress , that I am not suggesting, what I am saying is accurate, yet, I still would like to know, how Nichols managed an attempt to escape, mayby a couple of hundred yards, from Brady street, to where she was found, desperatly attempting to enter a door of a house en route, without being caught much sooner, if the chaser was able bodied in his lower limbs.
Witnesses lying?.
Possible , but to report of being waken , by a child, who imformed her mother, of someone trying to enter the house, involves another person, who if was of a age which could confirm the incident I would tend to believe that the event happened.
We all know that these ripper murders, are not cut and dried, they are all full of loopholes, and red herrings.
Regards Richard. |
Walter B
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 5:07 am: | |
More than once I've heard the theory that all were aphixiated or cut from behind before the mutilations started taking place.
Two reasons for this could be that the killer perhaps had a facial deformity (as suggested by the threads title) that made him or his victims uncomfortable. There-in he might 'ambush' them from behind.
Or that he promised to pay the prostitutes extra to enter them analy, only with the intention to asphixiate or slice their throats. |
Maria Giordano
Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 36
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:39 am: | |
Paul--
NOT ME!
Barnett is so low on my list only the top of his poor maligned little head shows.
Mags |
Busy Beaver
Sergeant
Username: Busy
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 12:54 pm: | |
The walking unsteadily could have been when Schwartz saw the killer, who may have moved from the pavement to the road and I'm presuming it was cobbled. You do tend to be unsteady on your feet when doing this- due to the un-eveness of the cobbles. And no, the killer was not wearing high heels.
Busy Beaver |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 280
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 3:37 pm: | |
A deformity would not necessarily mean a motor problem. For instance smallpox leaves one with disfiguring scars, but it would not hamper coordination |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 8:08 pm: | |
I wonder if this deformed evidence was the basis for The idea that Joseph Merrick was JTR. I dont really belive it but I have heard of an online book supposedly making a good case against the
Elephant Man. In another thread I requested information about it. Again I dont belive he was
the Ripper just curious to hear about this evidence against him. |
Morticia Addams
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 11:48 pm: | |
I have been toying with an idea for a while, that the killer might have been blind. He would have seemed rather harmless to his victims, yet he would have been able to find his way around in the dark. I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to physical handicaps, but it has been said that when one sense (in this case the eye-sight) fails, the remaining senses enhance to make up for the loss. Not only would a blind guy look harmless to others; if the sense-myth is right he would hear people, and perhaps even recognize their way of walking or other curious habits; maybe even know their scent. The medical examiners at the time couldn't agree whether JTR had any surgical knowledge. And would the police even think of taking a blind man in to give evidence, much less suspect him of the most publicized case of serial killing to this day? Even though it is a far cry, at best, I don't have a more useful way of spending my time. /M |
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 9:30 pm: | |
Morticia,
In my humble opinion...
For Jack to have been blind, and committed the crimes, he would ALSO have to have been completely, 100% suicidal as well. The risks he would be taking on, would have been immeasurable. Even if he picked those spots himself, he could have NEVER been assured of his surroundings (i.e. Was he completely alone? Or was someone watching covertly nearby?). He wouldn't have been able to ascertain, how much evidence he needed to immediately hide upon completion, in order to proceed back out into the public (i.e. How much bloodsplatter was he covered in? On which parts of his body? On which clothes?). Not to mention, if he needed to flee for whatever reason (i.e. If a victim cried out for help), it would have been highly improbable for him to have escaped. He would have not only have had to have an escape route planned out in advance, but he'd have to know the inner workings of the entire city, like the back of his hand. If he didn't, he'd essentially have to think "on the fly". And in "panic mode", at that. A risk I highly doubt he'd be willing to take.
All the best,
Dustin Gould |
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